Whats with this EMI thing...

With older units with the exception of the 1266 with its snap crackle and pop they were relatively quiet and for that matter still are..One new company is flooding the market with high priced light units that are poorly made and above all EMI is quite prevalent..Although they have different colors, names and the like their workmanship is poor at best
so personally we still have rock solid companies with excellent service after the sale minus EMI so even with the hype do think before you invest in a new unit. But again that is your choice..

And who is the '...one new company...'???

All my machines have a knob to turn down sensitivity.

If you don't know just like the commercial you are living under a rock.. I have tried several of them and if you want to get minimum depth be my guest and turn the sens. down...

New old EMI cracks and pops..Less you are hunting with some of the new machines you are missing out on what they finding and to me it is great to have these new lighter machines they are finding a lot of us history that was being masked.

LowBoy

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To cause problems just want to let those guys willing to spend big bucks for the next best thing to sliced bread to know plus and minus features..Are they lighter, are they built like tanks, do they go deeper, are they faster. are they noiser and do they have to be sent in for updates plus many more attributes all come to mind....so choose wisely and above all use what works for you...

than some of the older unit's but they seem to find a little more than the older unit's also...

I believe the VLF design is about as far as it can go so they new magic is in the coil design and increased gain that is pushed into the limit's of stability....

Some of my older detector's can be ran wide open and never make a peep of noise but they are less sensitive to lower conductor's on a general rule...

the higher freq's like in the 18-20Khz range seem to be less acceptable to EMI than the lower Khz and the newer coil's seem to be able to make the higher freq's punch the ground...

Now I myself have had my fair share of poor built machine's in the last few year's....

not so much as mechanical..Heck they have gotten lighter for sure.....But it's problem's in the software.......but then again I get cell phone's and DVD player's and etc that tear up right out of the box....So it's a universal problem....I know stuff says made in America and it is but the I.C.chips and diode's and resistor's are imported and there lies the problem...

Just like my father always said just because you can get it cheaper somewhere else does not make it a better deal...

That was one of the thing's that I like about Troy he built a good un but you paid for it..And the market could not handle it ...people want cheap prices and good product's and in some instances that does cause problem's especially in electronic's....

Heck even the euro machine's have the same (CHINA) part's in them....

interesting thread


Keith

Chinese parts cause EMI?

Shambler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chinese parts cause EMI?


Sure as hell do.
Some thing simple like a capacitor that is prone to drift because the tolerances are out of spec due to cheap inferior components or manufacturing.
Yep, they make a giant load of $#it cookies in China.
China has put our industries out of business and workers out of work.
They manufacture everything that now fills our landfills.
Our service industries are going away too.
Ever call your bank, internet service, cable company, insurance agency, computer tech support, who do you talk to? " This is Samesh, oh, herumph, excuse, I mean.... Bob, how may I help you"
Too bad we let it get completely F'd up. ( Apathy and Politicians )

Quote
Shambler
Chinese parts cause EMI?

Total BS.

go-rebels Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Chinese parts cause EMI?
>
> Total BS.


They don't cause EMI, they are more susceptible to the effects of EMI thus causing more frequent EMI issues with some electronics.
This is not a guess, its a fact. You can talk to Mouser, Digikey, Parts Express or other electronics distributors, they will tell you that there are many
Chinese manufactures that they will not carry. There is also a huge list of Chinese manufactures that they do trust. Its not just China there are other manufactures from other countries that also have the good and bad.

Its made cheap... because thats what we accept. It rings my bell anymore every time i try and get something fixed.... you get the old.. its cheaper to just buy a new one even if it cost a $1000. We have lost that old farmer mentality where if it broke WE fixed it... never considered buying a new one. We here in the US are the ones who EXPECT $100 or more to even consider working on anything any more..... not to mention the standard answer that it will be at least 2 weeks before we can get to it. Everything is made to break or not work correctly. There is just more money in selling and repairs than there is making it to last.... and China is the best at it. Its these KNOWN short cuts we arent allowed to make.... but overseas its expected. It has to affect the electronics in these machines because we already know not every machine is created equal..... yet they all meet the specs to leave the factory.

Dew

I have to agree with the capacitor analysis in regards to tolerances. A few years ago there was a huge bru-ha-ha in the computer motherboard industry.......most people were never aware of.......due to industrial espionage and inferior capacitors that resulted.

"is that a scientist working for the Japanese company Rubycon left the company and began working for Luminous Town Electric in China. He developed a copy of the Rubycon P-50 water based electrolyte which is what they use in the Low-ESR caps that are present on all motherboards. Unfortunately his staff left and stole his electrolyte formula. They started producing tons of the electrolyte and supplied many Taiwanese capacitor manufacturers. Unfortunately the formula was incomplete and did not contain the additives that prevent electrolysis from occurring inside the capacitors and releasing hydrogen gas which bursts the capacitor at the vents at the top or at the bottom of the capacitor can."

Not to China bash, but they're electronic components suck. Plain and simple. Example: the best computer motherboards used to be mfg'd in Taiwan (and they are chinese also), now these motherboards are made in China. Man, does the long term quality blow chunks and the out of the box failure rate is considerably higher amonst top name motherboard mfg's. The Chinese are notorious for compromising quality control if it will put a few extra dollars in their pockets, even within foreign owned companies they are working for.

This adds to the fact that if cross testing machines its easy to over look something like silent or standard EMI
and draw a conclusion that might change the results under different settings

I was in part 2 of my reply to Dan... where he mention's in his post about poor workmanship.....I was talking about the mechanical aspect being O.K but the digital aspect seems to suffer more frequently than they used to and most chips and diodes and capacitor's etc etc are built oversea's....

I could not tell you if the poor Q.C. component's cause EMI???? Theoretically It should But I have no real proof.....High gain detector's do pick up more EMI than the older one's though...

Sorry if I mislead you in my response....I have a hard time conveying info through a keyboard...

Keith

gman..............intuitive/correct.

((( It's also one of my (difficult) tests/requirements for validating/certifying a detector ))).

The "Made-in-the-USA is better" silliness hasn't been true across the board for 30 years. Each manufactured item has to be looked at separately. I have a detector made in SE Asia - I have to say EMI is not an issue and workmanship seems pretty dang good. I also had a detector that I'm not sure where it's made because of all the smoke-and-mirrors the company throws up. I can't use that one anywhere near buildings without turning the sensitivity to below around 1/3 and increasing the descrim to a higher point than desired. I have a buddy who's using a totally "made-in-America" machine with purty colors on the screen and he can't hear any of the deep targets I show him and although he has umpteen ways to analyze the target, he still has no more an idea than I do before he digs - he just spends a lot more time dancing over the target.

These detectors are pretty darn simple radios when compared to some of the almost indestructible cell phones, but somehow a detector that can't be used in the city (unless you tune it to Ace250 depth) cost $1000 and it can't detect a piece of metal beyond 10"? A Blackberry (or IPhone or any of 20 others) that has 50x the computing power costs $300-$500???

Quote

they will tell you that there are many
Chinese manufactures that they will not carry.

There are many manufacturers (period) that they won't carry - simply being in China has little to do with the decision. Remember, GM went bankrupt because no one was buying their cars. They've stunk for almost 20 years, and when I was stationed overseas, people laughed at the thought of buying American cars. They expected them to vibrate a lot, be loud, be uncomfortable, last to 100K and breaking down a lot after 70k.

The best capacitors are those mfg in Japan/U.S./Germany/Taiwan. Cost more. But well worth it. You can assemble anywhere. It's where the components are mfg that counts the most. Chinese mfg components are sub-standard.

The design of the analog circuit and processing of the A/D convertors has more to do with EMI susceptibility than any tolerancing or failure rate of Chinese made caps. I'd bet that all major MD companies use the best components they can get. For these small surface mount PCBs, the cost of discrete caps is negligible compared to the cost of their CMOS chips.

China has potentially put out a lot of manufacturing jobs, but engineering and technical jobs are being taken by India at a ramped pace. I've worked in Silicon valley for the past 11 years, I'm watching it first hand, it sucks. Welcome to "globalization."

I disagree with about a component being out of spec just because it's made by a certain country. Not true, if you order a component you order the specs you require, and those are typically adhered to (from a reputable manufacturer). If you're not willing to pay the money for the quality components, then you'll get low quality components.

I think you'd be surprised to learn that MD companies do not use the best components they can get (Troy perhaps being an exception) because they have to balance profits with costs, and the best quality components are not cheap.





Up to my ____ in Pulltabs, Grant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shambler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Chinese parts cause EMI?
>
>
> Sure as hell do.
> Some thing simple like a capacitor that is prone
> to drift because the tolerances are out of spec
> due to cheap inferior components or
> manufacturing.
> Yep, they make a giant load of $#it cookies in
> China.
> China has put our industries out of business and
> workers out of work.
> They manufacture everything that now fills our
> landfills.
> Our service industries are going away too.
> Ever call your bank, internet service, cable
> company, insurance agency, computer tech support,
> who do you talk to? " This is Samesh, oh, herumph,
> excuse, I mean.... Bob, how may I help you"
> Too bad we let it get completely F'd up. ( Apathy
> and Politicians )

I was hunting with my Etrac yesterday and up came a storm. The Etrac went to a very unstable audio. Tried auto cancel, no good, went to manual channel select and not luck again. Finally left, ten minutes later it came a very hard storm, lightning, wind, rain and hail.
My is my personal bad weather alert robot.