I need help from the experts! (& suggestions from all!)

I've posted this question in different ways on several forums but maybe me being more descriptive will help?
I've swung a White's for years. My fav. was the 6000 di pro SL but I traded "up" for the XLT. I KNOW I need more depth but I've be "Outta it" for a while
and all the new tech. & machines out there are simply confusing to me! Here's what I'm looking for...

1. - Lighter weight! (I have a shoulder prob. & Whites are simply a little heavy for me right now!)
2. - Increased depth! (I mainly hunt old house sites, older parks & schools with an occasional trip to do some CW relic hunting.
3. - Better target separation/Fast recovery speed! ( I KNOW I've missed a ton of good stuff by the ridiculous amounts of trash/iron in many spots!)
4. - Ability to handle Georgia's mineralized ground! ( SOME tell me the T2 or F75 would be great, others say NO WAY! Hence, more confusion!)
5. - Accurate pinpointing! ( Tearing up the grounds of a Metro Atlanta park or Older home is NOT an option!)
6. - SILVER is my goal & a solid 10" to 12" or more in depth seems to be a necessity 'cause many places have been pounded to death by past models. (& my XLT!)
7. - Build Quality! - (I've used WHITE'S for years for heavens sake! Can ANYONE even compete with their SOLID construction?)

So far, I've looked seriously at the...

T2Ltd for many reasons (Separation, Depth and Tek's CLAIM that the machine can handle bad ground)
F75 Ltd - (Same reasons as above plus additional features I like)
F-70 - Don't know that much about it! Can it hang with the "Big Boys?"
Omega 8000 - Completely ruled this machine out from all the depth limitation talk I've heard!)
Safari - More or less ruled this unit out too. Just heard too much "unhappiness!"
Other top of the line Minelab's are a bit out of my budget & from what I hear, a little heavy & poorly balanced!
White's - DFX 300 - Interesting BUT, weight issues & a TWELVE inch coil! REALLY? A Twelve inch coil?!!
NO - Tesoro, Bounty Hunter etc...

So, HELP! What would be a step or two UP and a few inches DOWN from my XLT in good ole' Ga. red clay that has the features I need? Am I asking too much?
(I can get an AMAZING DEAL on either the T2Ltd. OR F75Ltd but it's STILL A LOT of money! Just wanna make the BEST Choice!? ALL Help and Suggestions/Advice is welcome! Thanks for reading my little book here!

Been swingin' a White's since the 70's - 5 machines, Currently an XLT & Fisher F75 LE - 50,000 finds, 30,000 (or so) keepers. Published in the White's catalog. Always looking for good/decent hunting buds! Get in touch!

If you have shoulder problems, it rules out the Minelabs. Unless you use a sling setup like Doc's Swingy Thingy. It's a well designed sling but it is like wearing a dog chest harness leash. I use it on the White's Silver Eagle.....makes the unit light as a feather......but I really don't like the encumbrance of the harness. Really makes digging akward. The other units for recommendation I will leave to the one's that own them & use them.

Forgot to add.........NASA Tom & TManly have units for sale here if the F75 is a consideration........see their recent posts.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2011 07:11PM by TerraDigger.

Thanks TD! I should be talking to TManly later today!!

Been swingin' a White's since the 70's - 5 machines, Currently an XLT & Fisher F75 LE - 50,000 finds, 30,000 (or so) keepers. Published in the White's catalog. Always looking for good/decent hunting buds! Get in touch!

I would take the F75 LTD over the T2 LTD from everything I have read on the two machines. Get NASA Tom's opinion on this.

I would also say the LTD Fisher both coils it is light and fast and deep if you read all that Tom has to say and others you can not go wrong. I did own the F75 and then the LTD and hunted with them since they came out and then tried the G2 but for the money and all the programing you get the LTD is hard to beat.

Did not really care for the F70 and I do have an Omega as a backup detector but just bought the gold bug as a backup to the G2. I think it depends on the area you hunt. I had an XLT and DFX and in Calif they don't do well in our dirt and then the MXT...I had the CZ3 and loved it, very deep but did not do well as a relic hunter and was not that great at unmasking in heavy iron. I even tried the At pro and it was slow and heavy compaired to the fisher and tek..

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Where do you live in Georgia?

really handles the bad ground well ...In my opinion it works better for depth in clay than an F-75....

needs to be ran on pro mode iron audio on and just set to eliminate nail's ....Good solid machine for the money and has great separation ...not the lightest but not the heaviest ....

Another option is to get the MXT but it add's weight but works real well in clay...

Explorer's get it done in the depth department but are crazy heavy??

AT-PRO might be a good option for ya....

Keith

Hey PulltabPirate --

First, a disclaimer -- I'm NOT an expert, just someone who is long-winded and thinks too much!

Anyway, I wonder if your lack of answers that you mentioned, is due to the fact that what you are asking for probably doesn't exist (except in all of our dreams! )

To let you know, I have most recently been swinging a Fisher F70, a Fisher Gold Bug Pro, and a Minelab SE Pro.

Here's what I said to myself as I ran through your list...

1. Lightweight? So, Minelabs ruled out. Need a Fisher/Tek unit. Gold Bug Pro, maybe?

2. Increased Depth? Probably not the GB Pro, then. Even the DP (the Pro with the 11" DD coil), while a good, pretty deep detector, is not "top of the line" deep. So, T2 SE or F75 LTD/F70.

3. Better target separation/fast recovery? OK, T2 SE or F75 LTD/F70 still will work. (Gold Bug Pro would, but again, while deep, it is not THE DEEPEST single unit out there...)

4. Able to handle mineralized ground? BIG thumbs up for the Gold Bug Pro -- it's designed for tough ground conditions as would be found in a gold prospecting environment. But, there's the "extremely deep" requirement again. I am not sure about the F75 LTD/T2 SE in your ground.

5. Accurate pinpointing? I have found my Gold Bug Pro, and my F70, to be very accurate. I'm nearly sure the T2 SE/F75 LTD will be, also. So, still sounds like a T2 SE/F75 LTD/F70 to me...

6. Focus on SILVER -- DEEEEP silver (a solid 10-12" PLUS) -- well, NOW you went and did it! DEEP silver is the realm of the Minelab FBS units, IMHO. I know, guys find deep silver with the Fisher and Tek units, but I strongly, strongly feel that if your one focus is DEEP SILVER, Minelab Explorer or Etrac is the top tool. BUT, they may not be as fast as Fisher/Tek units, and are CERTAINLY not as light. This one requirement here -- your number 6 -- is where you may be asking too much. Can you find the deep silver with the F70/F75 LTD/T2 SE? Yes, of course. Are they THE BEST for doing so? Honestly, it is my opinion that they aren't. They simply lack the accuracy in ID ability at that depth, in my opinion. For this reason, I strongly believe that these units excel the most in a relic hunting environment, where ID is not AS important. These machines are VERY DEEP, and can give you enough ID ability to tell the difference between ferrous and non ferrous. However, my F70 was nowhere NEAR as accurate, VDI-wise, as my Gold Bug Pro, and I have heard others discuss how VDI accuracy falls sharply beyond about 6-8" on the F75/T2 platforms, in all but the MILDEST of soils. This is obviously true of ALL machines (losing ID ability, to varying degrees, with depth), but many folks agree that the multi-frequency FBS machines from Minelab do the best -- and is part of the reason they are DEADLY on deep silver. Now, nowhere in your list of requirements did you mention the need for deep ID ability. If you are someone who doesn't use ID -- but uses your ears and experience more as a dig/no-dig determiner (wish I had that ability!), then you might be very happy with an F70/F75 LTD/T2 SE. They seem to meet the rest of your requirements. Finally,

7. Build quality. Well, I can't tell you, being mostly a First Texas user in the past, until buying the Minelab unit. The First Texas units get criticized unfairly, IMO, about build quality, simply because they are so LIGHT, and thus may "feel" cheaply-built. However, I have had NO problems with mine, in terms of "toughness." Who knows, others may "disagree," but I would imagine that you would be pleased -- if not with the FEEL of the build quality of a Fisher/Tek machine, then at least with the ACTUAL lack of problems you'd likely experience.

This is just my two cents worth. Basically, you are asking for what MANY of us have been asking for for a long time, a lightweight, super fast, high quality, DEEP SILVER machine. In my personal opinion, that particular machine simply does not exist -- and hence, you have guys opting for the Minelab FBS units, but complaining a bit about the weight and balance, and sometimes in the apparently slower recovery; others opting for the very light/very deep/very fast Fisher/Tek units, and then being disappointed at being out-silvered by the Minelab FBS users.

Sorry I probably didn't help much, but this is the way I see it. I keep thinking Fisher is going to introduce a true SILVER SLAYER, using some of the best attributes of the Gold Bug Pro and F75/T2 platforms, or that Minelab is going to come out with a newer, lighter, super-fast FBS machine. I guess we will see...

Steve



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2011 09:51PM by steveg.

This is why I still use a CZ3D. I'll cage-match against any ML or any other unit, anytime anyplace.
I will find the silver and gold just as deep and just as quick.

Tell me where and when.

I'll bring my LTD.

if...... the f75 limited will handle your soil it meets all your criteria!!!!
maybe a hipmounted cz would be a good choice but the f75 is balanced much better

WoW! Awesome advice! I knew I came to the right place! NASA Tom suggested A ML for my Georgia ground & what a moron I'd be if I argued with him!! BUT... I just found a deal on a F75 SE with THREE Coils that I'd also be a Moron if I passed it up! (That CZ3D sure looked good too & a couple of others!) Sometimes I think it's better to just shut up & make a decision! That's where I'm at right now! So, I'll tell you guy's this... I bet I'll be buggin' the #$#$ outta you in the near future about the best settings for my new tector!
Thanks again for ALL of your help! If resources like this were around back in the 70's - you might be calling me NASA Dan by now! Na, prolly not but you get the point!
@ go-rebels - I live in Gwinnett co. 'bout 30 miles NE of Atlanta & You?? (Now I'm gonna take one LAST look at the AT pro & CZ3d! <Just in case>

Been swingin' a White's since the 70's - 5 machines, Currently an XLT & Fisher F75 LE - 50,000 finds, 30,000 (or so) keepers. Published in the White's catalog. Always looking for good/decent hunting buds! Get in touch!

See Pirate.............I told you that the info would get at Tom's site would be superior.
Sorry guys.......I should have said, ask Tom D. and others, in my earlier post on F75 advice for Pirate.

After Grant's comments above, I should reiterate that I am NOT familiar with a CZ-3D, and it might be the best machine of all for deep silver (don't know how it would meet the "lightweight" requirement). I have been really intrigued with these units, reading about all the great comments, and with NASA Tom in on the design, and available to "tune" them for optimal performance, I'd be nuts to dismiss them. I just have a hard time using a unit with no digital ID numbers (ridiculous, huh? I know...)

Steve

I'm a little concerned about the premise that the Explorers will work the best in hot ground of the detectors mentioned. I'm not directly disputing Tom's opinion but my observations are different and I probably would be doing you a disservice if I didn't at least mention the following. I have absolutely NO axe to grind against Explorers. I've had one version or another almost without gaps since they first came out. I have an E-Trac now and like most folks know, it is a monster of a silver turf hunter and it handles a lot of other apps adequately also. I've also owned most of the First Tex built Fishers and Teks and still do because of what all they bring to the table. I have been going over to the DIV hunts since they started and tried a bunch of detectors over there in that Gawd forsaken stuff they call soil around Culpeper, VA. Every time I've been there and tried to use an Explorer I did not see where they worked even on par with the F-75's/T-2's etc. Maybe this mis-calibration of opinions is because the ground around Culpeper is markedly different than most other places with high mineralization...I don't know. Another thing that makes me think I'm not off my rocker on this is the fact that Minelab engineering just published some info on how to possibly make an E-Trac work "better" at DIV's. They admit they haven't even confirmed that the steps they're referring to will help but they suspect it will. I mean this pretty much is an admission by the company that FBS struggles in that ground. Once I figured how to use the FT high freq VLF's over there, and trust me, it took more than one hunt, they are second only to the "discriminating" ground balanced pulse detectors when compared to other ID vlf detectors. So, that is what it is and I've not hunted in your neck of the woods but I've heard from other sources that some of the soil in GA is somewhat similar to that of the worst in VA. So I guess the mystery widens.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2011 12:29AM by BuckeyeBrad.

I agree with BuckeyeBrad. I'm in the NW part of South Carolina and my dirt is pretty bad here. My Etrac running semi-auto SENS +3 cannot see the deep silver my LTD sees running in silent (low SENS) BP mode.

As always, "in my dirt, in my EMI."

@ BuckeyeBrad & go-rebels - Finally, someone making me think I'm not making a bad decision by going with the F75LTD! I've learned a few things over the years and CONFIDENCE in your machine is one of them! I'm getting a great deal on a F75LTD but I'll admit, I was loosing faith in my decision there for a while! Spent more time in the forums & on Youtube & I KNOW I'm getting a Kick - Butt Machine! My old White's 6000 used to produce Wheaties in the 8" to 9" range & Silver a little deeper! I think I'll gain a couple of inches with the F75 AFTER I learn to use it! Yea, I may loose an inch or two compared to those multi-Frequency machines but I don't think I'll "Null-out" in the Iron near as much either! Everything's a tradeoff! There IS NO Perfect machine! (Although my W-6000 was close for it's day!) There will never be a perfect machine 'cuz you can't improve on perfection & that would put the machine builders outta business soon enough! Thank ALL of you guys for all of your great help and advice!~ ALL of you are swinging GREAT Machines and soon I'll be swingin' one with you!! :-)

Been swingin' a White's since the 70's - 5 machines, Currently an XLT & Fisher F75 LE - 50,000 finds, 30,000 (or so) keepers. Published in the White's catalog. Always looking for good/decent hunting buds! Get in touch!

Hey Pulltab Pirate -- I personally do NOT think the Minelab FBS machines are deeper than the F75 LTD, in many soil types. Don't worry about that. These Fisher/Tek machines we are discussing are simply FLAT DEEP! You also will NOT "null" in the iron in terms of "threshold tone," at least when hunting in disc. mode -- as there is no threshold to "null" on the F75 when in disc. mode (though, you will of course still have iron "masking" -- the iron "hiding" the good target in close proximity, just like you would on any other machine). I just wanted to clarify, as you said you didn't think you'd "null-out near as much." You actually wil not "null out" at all (in terms of threshold tone).

Anyway, you really are getting a great machine so don't worry about that. It may not be the SINGLE BEST machine for the specific task of pulling deep silver coins, but it is still very capable in that regard, and very good at a wide range of tasks. Like I said before, I think, of all the machines, it probably fits your requirements the best (it, the T2 SE, or even the F70).

Happy Hunting!

Steve

@steveg - Thanks guy! I think I made a good decision too & the deal I'm getting makes it a no-brainer! That F-70 looked really good too! HH

Been swingin' a White's since the 70's - 5 machines, Currently an XLT & Fisher F75 LE - 50,000 finds, 30,000 (or so) keepers. Published in the White's catalog. Always looking for good/decent hunting buds! Get in touch!