Please define your definition of an air test maximum distance

Assuming the detector... e.g. CZ-3D (new model) (GB 10/Vol max/Disc 0/Sens 4.5)... is set to it's optimum settings for air testing, in a place with no EMI interference, fresh batteries, headphones, etc. What would you call a maximum distance (clad dime) high tone 'hit' volume/signal integrity wise? Disregard the meter. I am talking about a 'real world' high tone hit you would dig in the field. Not a super silent indistinct, wide, whisper sound no one would ever hear in the field, you only would even notice it in an air test.

I have read several posts on this forum about air testing the CZ-3D. 11" seems to be a common claim. But is that a hit you would dig in the field? I have watched Tom's DVD twice now. The section about his test garden is amazing to say the least! He is using what I assume is a prototype CZ-3D. He hits clad dimes at various depths with it. It progresses to a 12" deep clad dime that gets a solid, be it subtle, 4 way hit any one of us would dig!

I went to the city park in my small town today. It is pretty old. Years ago I worked it over a few times (before I moved here) and found a small handfull of silver each time with a CZ-7. Down to 8~9". I went there today with the new CZ-3D and dug coins up like no tomorrow. Going slow and using 0 disc./Volume max/QZ99 headphones. Going slow and methodically the 8" coil worked between the trash great! 78 coins and a silver ring in 3 hours. And an unbelievable layer of 4~5" nickels in there. Seems half the coins were nickels. No silver coins, and just a couple of wheat pennies. The deepest coin was 6" (wheat cent). I had been hunting for perhaps 15 minutes...then to my amazement... I was looking at the date on a wheatie I just dug up. I looked up an there was a an older guy standing there with a metal detector watching me! Really a nice guy. We got to talking. He said I was the 1st person he had seen with a metal detector in 1 1/2 years. He had driven clear over here (Valley, Nebraska) from Iowa on a tip he got from someone. He was using a Whites Spectra V3 updated to a V3i. He was an experienced user, he told me his 1st detector was a Whites 6000D so I figured he had been detecting for several years. When I was quitting for the day he was across the park so I walked over there to see what he had found and get his email address, etc. He showed me his goodies. He had found 8 or 9 coins. I scooped into my apron and showed him my finds. I had found 10 coins for every 1 he found. He was impressed... I WASN'T!
I am not trying to be arrogant here folks. I was discouraged! My deepest coin was 6" and no silver coins... that I know are in there.

I went home (5 blocks away). I pondered my finds. It was bugging me.

I came back! No EMI in the park so I grabbed a plastic ruler determined to do a perfect air test.

Air test results using a clad dime I had dug up, using headphones (GB 10/Vol max/Disc 0/Sens 4.5) Never looked at the meter.
6" nice loud, solid hit (high tone ping)
7" not as loud, solid hit (high tone ping)
8" VERY soft volume, questionable hit, semi high tone (coin) ping bouncing back and forth with tabs tone ping. If I was hunting I might or might not dig it. Not nearly the quality hit Tom gets on a 12" dime in his test garden (DVD)
9"~12" I could hear something... more like a wide interference like sound. Is this what some are calling their air test max results? I do not. No tone IDs. In the real world I would never dig it. Probably wouldn't even hear it at 10"~12" in the ground.

Now to bury the dime for a ground test. No metal or readings in the ground before I buried it. Break out the ruler time! (GB 4.5/Vol max/Disc 0/Sens 4.5). Using headphones. Coil nice and close to/on the ground.
6" nice loud, solid hit (high tone ping). I'd dig it
7" not as loud, solid hit (high tone ping) I'd dig it
7 1/2" VERY soft volume, questionable hit, semi high tone (coin) ping bouncing back and forth with tabs tone ping. If I was hunting I might or might not dig it. Not nearly the quality hit Tom gets on a 12" dime in his test garden (DVD)
8" I could hear something... more like a wide interference like sound. No tone IDs. In the real world I would probably never dig it.
9" I must be deaf. I can not hear anything.
10" Same result as 9"

8" clad dimes (equals 7 1/2" silver dimes?) are probably safe from me with the 8" loop. I have a 10 1/2" loop coming... maybe that will get the 8 inchers if there is not much trash. I have a new 5" loop I have not tried yet. Should be good for the clads and zinc pennies.

<end long winded rant>

Tom, can you summarize, in one post, your maximum air test distance tests for the common units we discuss? I've read about the original F75, F75LTD, CZ-3D, Omega, G2, T2, Etrac, ATPro... It would be nice to have all the data in one place, then a sticky to archive it.

BTW, what's up with stickies? Or maybe create another forum directory to which only Admin have the rights to post (write access).

I've got SOOOO much to say...........but not enough time. Let me start with this:

THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE DVD. The camera had a 'feature' that I was unaware of.....untill the DVD was done.......and on the streets. The camera has a built-in AGC circuit (automatic gain control).....and BOOSTED weak audio...to a fairly loud audio. This is NOT what I wanted to utilize for a educational-tool. In MY headphones...........the audio is VERY weak......but 'clean'.

Max air-tests are with the detector at maximum settings (which sometimes may NOT be what you think; hence, some experimenting required to find optimal settings). You may want to run your CZ on Sens '5' or '6'.....just to make sure. And with a CZ-20/21.....this may be Sens '7' or even '8'. You will also have to experiment with (and it's a great learning/educational experience) sweep speed. Yes, there is a 'optimal' sweep speed. The answer to the question is: you want to find maximum performance ... utilizing optimal textbook perfect conditions so as to learn what the detector COULD do...........should optimal conditions occur in the real world.

Clean/clear albeit weak audio response is all that is required.

Terry, you WILL find out that your detector 'appears'.................'seems'.............to go deeper and deeper......each time you use it. Do you know why? You will learn that YOU are getting accustomed///LEARNING-CURVE (and with greater confidence)......to the units 'language'. YOU are the one that is getting better............and NOT the detector! ((( Beware...the man with only one gun ))).

Yes, in a text-book perfect test-garden (which is a great measuring tool///base-platform..........yet.............not the real-world) you can find maximum depth capabilities. In the real world............a tiny/tiny fleck of rust at 4" deep........may/will COMPLETELY (and silently) mask a dime at only 8" deep. Remove this tiny fleck of rust...........and you can swing the coil several inches over this dime....and there is no question of what it is.

The QZ-99's give a more 'clear'.....'distinct' ...... 'sharp' audio...............on the deep/faint/weak targets.

The CZ has the 'tightest' most accurate 'nickel' window in the industry. And....to respectable depths.

Use the 8" coil a bit more.......THEN try the 10.5" coil.

From field experience using a CZ one model or the other I found extremely deep coins 10-12 inches will not always
repeat from 4 directions but if you spend some time you should get at least get a repeat signal from 2 and if in a real old area if the signal just sounds good might even dig one that will only sound off from one direction but on the whole if I can'"t get a repeat from at least 2 directions its usually let it lie...

Yes even though over the years have found real deep silver with a CZ indeed they are easily masked and the one deepie that won't repeat might be the find of a lifetime or for that matter one wonders how many I missed due to masking..so sometimes that gut feeling or perhaps the mellow tone of an old silver will get me a nice coin others may have missed..

"From field experience using a CZ one model or the other I found extremely deep coins 10-12 inches will not always
repeat from 4 directions but if you spend some time you should get at least get a repeat signal from 2 and if in a real old area if the signal just sounds good might even dig one that will only sound off from one direction but on the whole if I can'"t get a repeat from at least 2 directions its usually let it lie... "

Just substitute T2 for CZ in above statement.....lol. Once a coin gets below 6" I almost never can get a 4 way good signal. That only happens on the real shallow coins. "if I can'"t get a repeat from at least 2 directions its usually let it lie... " is exactly what I am finding to be true on the T2. I get tons of iron/nail targets that give a great 2 way audio/VDI signal in one direction only......other directional swings just won't match the quality of that one good 2 way direction..........dug a ton of deep nails/iron chunks yesterday to prove it

I bought a used CZ-3D online a couple of months ago and sent it to Tom for a re-calibration/tune-up. I read this thread and had to reply. The ONLY reason I got the 3D was because I saw Tom's DVD and said "I MUST have that detector!". Well, I am DAMN happy I listened to my gut I kept hearing & reading about all of these phenomenal air tests with results like 10.5", 11" 12", etc., etc., etc. Then, my own unit air tested a clad dime at 11.9". "Yeah right" I remember thinking. Like THAT will happen for me in my necks of the woods in the ground, NOT in the air. Long story short...

This 3D has been the BEST detector I've ever used...HANDS DOWN!!! To be honest, I've never formally measured a find in the hole, however, I do know for sure how big my lesche is (10") & I can tell anyone that I routinely dig coins out from holes this deep & even deeper. Do I dig EVERY coin from holes this deep? No, absolutely not. I would venture to say though a good 20% to 25% I do.

Here's a disclamer though: When I'm coinshooting, I'm mainly cherry-picking looking for old stuff & silver. Sooooooooooo, I am ONLY looking for signals 3+ inches or deeper. Because of this, I've managed to train myself to really listen & hear those whisper signals that almost always means something good. Listening for the deeper, fainter, quieter, barely-there signals takes work and a LOT of attention when swinging. But, the 3D makes it easy since it is such a deep seeking unit.

As others have stated, ANY faint signal on ANY detector almost HAS to be dug - good signal or crappy - since most units have a hard time reading anything correctly past a certain depth strata. Deep usually means old/"good" target.

I am having the best year since I started detecting with my 3D. In the past month alone I have scored my first dime trifecta, found a half reale & just yesterday snagged my first seated dime. Is this ALL due to the 3D? Honestly, no. It's my experience & practice meeting good hunting spots meeting a world class detector. When they all converge you get super results. However, I honestly don't think I would be having the year I am if the 3D was taken out of the equation. I'm almost positive on this.

Just wanted to say that I am getting results I never even thought possible with my 3D. So, to the original poster, keep with the unit...you WILL be impressed once you get the hang of this beast



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2011 08:18PM by njnydigger.

Well I headed out to the old park again today after church for 3 1/2 hours to give it another go. I found out the park has been in use since the 1880s.
Found 112 coins today. 2 wheat cents... a 1947 @ 6 1/2" and a 1941 at 6 3/4" and a 1946 nickel at 6 1/4" all were carefully excavated and measured.

[imageshack.us]

All the rest were clad/zinc/newer/shallower/etc. I got bored with digging up newer stuff so I went to the outfield of one of the fenced in ballfields. Nice black dirt with no metal readings. I buried a clad dime at exactly 8".
Checked the detectors settings GB 4.5/Sens 4.5/Volume Max/Dic 0. I swept that coin from every angle and speed.
I could hear something... more like a very, very, soft wide sound. No tone IDs. I looked at the meter and it was bouncing to foil. It would not pinpoint/read the depth either... like nothing was there. I would never even consider digging
a signal like that coin hunting.

The detector is just a killer on coins down to 7". And I am really impressed at it's performance on nickels. I just love it except for it's depth performance.
At 8" forget it. Today I lost all confidence of ever finding a dime at 7 1/2" plus. I have several places I would love to take it that have Seated/Barber/Indianheads/etc but I am not wasting my gas and time to drive to them with my confidence
level in this detector being what it is for deep coins. In the past I have had 8 or 9 detectors that would detect an 8"+ dime. I've found plenty of them.

njnydigger, it sounds like you are very happy with your CZ-3D! Is that 11.9" air test on a dime a tone ID hit?
Could you do me a favor and bury a clad dime at 8" and post back with your results using your CZ-3D on it? Or anyone else with a hot CZ-3D please do the same? Are you getting any tone ID at all?

I want this to work out for me so bad. I bought a new 5" loop (have not tried it) and have a new 10 1/2" loop coming. I'd take a real finacial hit if I had to sell off this package. I absolutely am not interested in keeping the detector for hunting new schools/new parks/new houses for modern coins. I lost interest in that kind of detecting 30 years ago. The CZ-3D is NOT billed as 'Tot-Lot' detector and I will not keep it if that is what it performs like.

Hindsight is always 20-20. Should I just have waited and found a proven 1021 or 1121 Los Banos CZ-3D from a trustwothy seller?

Having used every model CZ ever made 7-8 inches would be average...so contact Tom as I feel something is wrong with yours..I do have to say always ran Volume at 10 so even a 10-12 incher sounded good...no whispers..
Honestly if you bury a coin at 8 inches any similarity to one buried 75-100 years is purely coincidental and may also be a key to your problem...by the way my coin garden is buried over 20 years and air tests and newly buried coins are not my cup of tea as far as being credible. Last but not least do you feel the area you are huntring in has any real deep coins?

I hunted it a few years back with a CZ-7 and found silver each time and I remember some being 8~9" then, so maybe 9~10" now? The park is 130 years old. With the CZ-3D I have not found a single coin of any type older than 1941 or deeper than 6 3/4". My logic says to me
1940 coins in there are close to 7" deep. I did not find any coins 7" or deeper or older than 1940. Why?
1) Someone else found them all already in this pretty darn big park? Not likely in this little town.
2) No coins were lost from 1880 to to 1940... 60 years
3) All the pre 1940 coins are masked
4) I am an idiot. I've only owned about 25 detectors and only been detecting since 1971. And 40 years experience using them means nothing.
5) There may be a slight chance the detector will not detect coins deeper than 7"
7) I am deaf! My wife often tells me I am not hearing a word she says

Has anyone postulated that the CZ's manufactured by the current Fisher is not going to perform like the old Los Banos Fisher CZ's.

TerraDigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has anyone postulated that the CZ's manufactured
> by the current Fisher is not going to perform like
> the old Los Banos Fisher CZ's.

Hi, This machine was setup by Tom so it really don't matter where or when it was made....It passed Tom's test so it's a good one and good to go....My opinion coming soon.....JJ

Something sounds not-normal.

1. Bad detector now?
2. Bad minerals?
3. Silent EMI?

Hard to tell.

Didn't realize it was a Tom machine.

Hi all, Hey if you don't mind I'm going to voice my opinion on this subject too....Okay here it goes.... I have been detecting for 30 plus years....I can remember years ago digging what I thought was deeper coins too. Did I dream this thought or am I cracking up? I sometimes ask myself this,because I can't seem to duplicate feat anymore...I don't care what machine I use...The days of handfuls of silver coins and hundreds of wheat pennies on a trip are rare nowadays..I truly believe that you are jumping the gun on your assessment of the capabilities of your Fisher 3D....I don't care how many years you have been detecting it takes time to get use to a machine and understand it's language....Here's an example....I bought a Garrett AT Pro,I used it a couple of times and kinda thought it was junk because I could not pull anything old with it also...So I got on a detector forum saying I think I'm going to get rid of this machine...Everyone on the forum said just give it more time,it's way to early to formulate an opinion good or bad....So I took there advise (now) 4 weeks later and using it almost every day...I can pull Indian Head pennies with regularity...I'm probably going at least two inches deeper in the ground now....The machine did not change only I changed I now understand it's language better now....I'm not getting 8" deep neither maybe 6" or 7" maximum....(your air tests) How fast was you swinging the test coin in front of the coil? How is the mineralization at this place? Is something silently making your 3D not perform up to par? Remember a freshly buried coin will not detect as deep as one that has been in the ground awhile....Also don't forget the park you use to hunt in years ago now has about a ton more of trash in the ground ...Prime example....This old fairgrounds I use to hunt 20 years ago was a choice location to pull the older gems. Now there is so much more trash in ground it's almost unworkable,well at least it's not the way I remember it being. Did the Whites machine interfere with your 3D while you was detecting? Remember also Tom's soil is neutral and his coins in his test garden have been there for years..It sounds to me like you beat the guy out that was using a Whites machine. I would be happy with that thought for now...You beat me out,I'm lucky to pull 10 coins in an old worked out place...Actually I get skunked some days..Just give the 3D some more time and you will see a difference....How many sets of batteries have you went through? I'm on my forth set now and things are just starting to click....Well I said enough now....I mean no disrespect to you or anyone else. I'm just voicing my opinion best of luck to you....JJ



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2011 03:25PM by jimmyjiver.

I think the issue is simply this. Tons of small metallic micro trash, that didn't exist years ago, now does. That is the major culprit. Mostly (but not always) it's aluminum residue in all its glorious forms Getting a clean coin hit below 6+" is almost getting impossible in any area frequented by the public over the last 30 years). Notice how the popularity of 5 & 6" coils has risen dramatically in the last few years.
The detector companies might want to consider hiring competent software coders who's sole purpose is to write software that eliminates the 'micro' trash signals. I hate to say it, but the day's of focusing predominantly on 'coin' signal discrimination, using historical trash discrimination techniques, is not very effective. One or two software developers within a company, trying to cover everything software wise isn't enough. With today's micro-processors, the capability to program thousands/tens of thousands/millions of permutations of micro-trash signals into a chip, is attainable. Just takes the investment in the proper signal recording equipment/personnel/encoding hours, to do it.
What I am describing above is not really much different than how computer anti-virus software is written. The above type of disc would be a user enacted option.
How much longer do we have to keep running into the same disc barriers, no matter the machine? And the tired answer is, make this or that adjustment.
A mfg gives a minor improvement(s) in one area on a machine, but there is a usually a diminishment in another area(s). To compensate for the loss, the user is supposed to make a magical adjustment(s) of some kind to compensate for the loss. Why? Because its the same old disc technology/mindset in a endless re-packaging scenario. Duh!!! My T2 does not do any better effectively discriminating/finding targets than my 15+ year old White's Silver Eagle. The T2 Has a few more bells & whistles/DD coil/weight reduction.........but the bottom line is.....15+ years...and no appreciable real world difference in results. And I am not beating up on the T2.....just saying current machines should be far more advanced in real world applications/results.
Doesn't seem to be any George Payne's around anymore. Where's the innovation that turned the detecting world on it's ear, that we saw in the 1980's & early 1990's?



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2011 05:56PM by TerraDigger.

Terry,

Of all the performance results that you have told me (us) about ....with your Valley, NE experiences.............there is one test/experience that I'm not happy with. Your air-test performance. A $200 Garrett ACE-250 will perform better than what you are explaining. ((( A $800 CZ should perform....at minimum..... AT LEAST as good -understatement- ))). I'm not happy (satisfied) with this. I also hardly have the patience to wait until you get a different coil (the 10.5" coil)..........to see if you experience a large 'change'......a major difference............so as to verify any coil issue. Yes, it could be a silent-EMI issue. EMI that you can not audibly hear in the detector; yet, performance is reduced......because of this silent-EMI. There are MANY variables that could cause the real-dirt, real-world 'conditions' that you are ascertaining.........as several folks have eloquently elaborated upon....in this thread. I wish you had a detecting club in your area...........and you could 'test' another persons CZ. Head-to-head comparison is paramount.

IF.....you want to swap the unit out for another new one............................even if it is just simply for YOUR 'warm-fuzzies'............whether before-or-after you get a new/different coil....................just holler. "Peace-of-mind" is understood. I want you to experience what a CZ-3D "SHOULD" do. You will never forget it!

Thank you folks for your input. And Tom thank you for the assurance. The warranty card is not filled out or anything. I want to empathize this up front: I love the detector and how it operates.
It's a coin killer. It is just the depth issue that concerns me. Today I will take it to an old park in Mead, Nebraska. It does not get used much nowdays but back in the 1940s my mother worked
at the Mead bomber plant there where they made B29s during WWII. She told me the park was just full of people every day back then. Today it is just a sleepy little town. I have been there
several times in the past and found a few hundred silver coins in there. I'll try burying the 8" dime there also. The old ball field has very little junk and little modern use so I can concentrate
on searching for older coins. And not be annoyed by newer clads and zinc.

I REALLY wish you had any other detector..........so as to 'compare'........and see if the other unit performs in a similar fashion.

This is difficult to explain..............but............let's try this: Many times..........I have tried burying a clad dime at 8".....for demonstration purposes...........in SEVERAL different locations (usually public parks).............and.....................unfortunately...I was trying to demonstrate the CZ to folks......with 'failure' resultant. No detection of the dime. It took me several years to realize what 'silent masking' was all about. There were tiny little flakes of iron oxide (rust flakes) near the coin detection area................and silent masking would ensue. A 8" dime in Florida inert dirt....is not even a challange for a CZ; yet, a couple of very small flakes of rust... will prove otherwise. Hence; the extreme importance of a very sanitized test-garden............so as to establish textbook perfect 'base-reference' data.
The best I have ever been able to acomplish is.....burying a dime just beyond 9" in the real world....for demonstration purposes; yet, I would still occasionally find a 11"...........or even a 12" deep dime during a real-world hunt. Yes,,,,, makes me wonder how many coins are well within detectable range; yet, due to silent masking.........are completely undetectable. Deep NON silent-masked coins are more the 'exception'....and not the 'rule'. I believe I explained this phenomenon in the thread titled "Rcpt Ack of F75 Ltd Prototype"............or in COMPILATION #1 or #2.

Tom your a midreader... find another unit to test against...

A lot happened today. Before I headed out for Mead I called up my brother in law in Omaha. He has an old Garrett Master Hunter 7 ADS which I sold him many years ago, mid to late 1980s.
I found a lot of Indianheads/Seated/Barbers/Merc dimes with that unit. It went deep. Probably deeper than the new Garretts. He hasn't used it for years. One of the many that buy a detector,
use it for awhile, then put it in a closet. I asked if he wanted to find some silver and he agreed. So we met at Venice, a little town on the way to Mead for both of us. We got out there and I see
they built a new playground but the ball field still loked as I remembered it. We headed straight out there. I decided I was not going to dig any readings under 4". He was standing there with a
puzzled look. He couldn't remember how to ground balance it, etc. So I helped him with that and we got going. I found a 1943 Merc @ 6 1/2" and a 1941 @ 6 1/2". Then a 1940 Wash quarter @ 7".
(5) 1938~1945 wheats @ 6~ 6 3/4", and a silver St. Christopher medal @ 6". And just a couple newer clads that were 4~4 1/2". He found 5 mercs (1 was a nice 1918!)/1 Roosevelt/2 Wash quarters/6 Wheats
and a small handfull of new stuff.
I told him if he detected anyting he thought was OVER 7" yell at me before you dig. He had 3 signals he called me over for. The 1st one was the 1918 Merc. He said it was about 8 1/2". It hit it pretty good
and he could pinpoint it OK. He turned his off and I tried hard to detect it with the CZ-3D. I couldn't get a sniff of it. Would not pinpont it either... no sound at all. I dug it up for him because I HAD to know
how deep it was. Very carefully I cut a huge plug with the Lesche and began going down. When I saw it laying at the bottom of the hole it was dead flat and 8 3/4" deep. He had another signal at 8". Good
hit and it pinpointed. Same results for me and the CZ-3D as before. Nothing. This one was a 1923 Wheat at a very slight angle at 7 3/4". The last one was at just over 8" with a good pinpoint. The CZ was silent again.
I was getting a little embarrased. It was really hot out today and that didn't help. Another Wheat, 1918, dead flat @ 8 3/4". That was the last coin of the day for either of us. He said the back of his legs were killing him
so we quit. Almost. I had to do the 8" buried clad dime test. I used the same hole he found the 1918 Merc in. At 8" the old Garrett had no problem finding it. The CZ-3D got it's tail put between it's legs again. Just nothing.


On a brighter note the 10 1/2" loop arrived today while I was gone. I promptly put it on when I got home to try the 8" clad dime I have in my yard. It found it. Very weak signal but it hit it 3 ways and pinpointed it.
A quick trip around the yard refreshed my memory about 10 1/2" loops on CZs (I had 2 earlier models I had gotten 10 1/2 loops for) pretty heavy and horrible around trash. Great for open areas though!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2011 02:19AM by Lipservice.

I'm really having problems with a 1/4-Century old unit beating the CZ. Are you wanting to try the 10.5" coil out in the real world............or do you want to send that unit back to me......and I'll send you a replacement? I am now........nearly certain.........something has gone flat with the CZ.

Tom, believe it. That Garrett was one of the deepest detectors I have ever seen. Certainly deeper than the last detector I had, a CZ-7. It has a 1~9" depth meter and I can tell you I saw it pegged more than once on a coin. It has a big loop with it. The deepest coin I ever found, a seated dime, I found with that Garrett using the big loop in Omaha's Bemis park. The oldest park in Omaha. It was an honest 10 1/2" deep. And it is the only detector I ever owned that I found silver three-cent pieces with. Downsides of it was you had to use very fast sweeping (tiresome with the big loop on there) and certainly lots of good signals were masked by trash due to that high sweep speed. And it was no nickel finder unless they were in a hole with other coins. Also it had rechargable batteries from the factory but alkalines made it perform noticably better. That park is still in my top 5 to return to even though everyone within 100 miles has been in there with a detector. From all that I have read about the CZ-3D and folks raving about it I had high hopes of finding a few of those old coins that are way down there with it.


PM to you, Tom.

If this Garrett is a 4 filter then it could have relevance in perculiar situations.
There are ground makeups that favor/ allow old 4 filter designs to still trump
modern designs for depth.
Albeit not widespread but there are reports where some still favor them in their
particular area in their ground conditions.
Generally the faster the sweep, the better the depth on these 4 filters.
As we all know, the very fast sweep speed is detrimental in trash.

You folks on this forum are just awesome! I have read and reread your comments. They are just spot on. They bring to light what all of us are facing in this hobby.
Certainly the days of finding silver coins still caught up in the roots of grass are long gone. And finding gold rings commonplace... thanks to aluminum trash. Sure,
we all can go out and find new clad stuff any day. As always it constantly gets replenished. But that gets old fast. And, sure, gold rings still get lost. But only the
patient and diehards are willing to start digging all those junk signals (not talking about beach hunting/relic hunting). It used to be I would see folks out with their
detectors all the time in parks/schools/etc. Not so anymore. Except for Mike (the guy I ran into a couple days ago) it has been years since I saw anyone detecting.
And for good reason. People are to wrapped up in this busy complicated world. Money is tight. Our jobs are an uncertainty Then 90% folks who do try getting into
the hobby get discouraged and quit it. Almost every detector I ever had, except two, paid for itself. The price of gas has a huge impact on this hobby. I want to
detect a place with a 60 mile round trip from here. Will I find enough to pay for it? Who knows? It is just a hobby to me, like fishing. Sure I want to find something
good. But maybe I won't. All I ask for is the chance to. Success in this hobby = good equipment+operator skill+research. And maybe a tad bit of luck.

And these new detectors. Oh my. So many bells and whistles. A program for this, a program for that. Graphs and digital readouts. As far as I can see...
quoting TerraDigger: ".........but the bottom line is.....15+ years...and no appreciable real world difference " Spot on my friend! Exactly why I wanted a CZ-3D.
Simple, a great coinshooter, great depth. And having a couple CZs previously helped my decision. To me all the rest are just 'bells and whistles' to complicate matters
and drive the price up. Am I afraid of technology? No. Although I consider myself semi retired I am an IT professional and do all the IT work for three companies and
still do some custom PC building/repairing/networking on the side. I have two PCs setting on the table next to me right now I built within the last week for customers.
One a super high performance gaming PC. I personally have ten PCs in the house. So I know what high tech is. I don't have near the income I used to have by limiting my
buisiness but my wife and I get by just fine. And I enjoy all my free time nowdays.

Unless some new concept in technology in metal detectors appears we are, and have been, stuck in this 15 to 20 year old concept. And I, for one, can see the handwriting on
the wall. As Tom has so diligently stated on his DVD (and maybe on these forums also?) "90% of the coins are beyond current metal detector depth limits/masked/silent masked".
That isn't looking too great for the detector users (unless you are looking for clads and zinc pennies). More junk is hitting the ground, older coins are getting deeper, and older coins
we are looking for are being found... never to be replenished... unless people start throwing their coin collections out on the ground I'm old. 63 1/2. I probably will not live to see the
practical end of this hobby. But unless some new all new technology in metal detectors does appear you younger folks will. It just plain will not be worth the time and effort. Sure there
are exceptions! Beaches/unexplored,unused areas/some houses. But still the coins are getting deeper in these areas too. Will your detectors go deep enough? Or see through the ever accumilating trash?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2011 01:46AM by Lipservice.

I made a video today to show my CZ-3D in action. This is in relation to Lipservice's original post that he is not getting an clear, strong, audible signal on a buried dime at 8". I purchased my 3D used & it is a 1021 model that was re-calibrated by Tom. It air-tested a clad dime at 11.9" using Tom's rigorous standards. I know Lipservice was quite upset at the depth (or lack thereof) that he was getting, so, thought I would post this to lift his spirits and show him what a properly tuned 3D is capable of. Tom told me that I had a very hot unit even before he touched it, however, even new 3D's are quite powerful. 8" on a 3D should be NO PROBLEM.

P.S. - Please forgive the crappy video. Just shot something quick as I wanted to give Lipservice an idea on what these CZ's can do. I also used the quickest upload settings, so again, excuse the choppy, blurry video & audio problems.

P.P.S. - Didn't mention it in the video, but, I was using the stock 8" coil when I did the test

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2011 09:45PM by njnydigger.

njnydigger... thank you so much for taking the time to show us what a CZ-3D can really do. Sorry you had to eat a little dirt doing it
Your CZ certainly has no problem smacking that dime. And from the sound of the signal I imagine that dime at 10" would be in big trouble with you at the helm!

P.S. You certainly did lift my spirits! Thanks again.

Very good video! Thanks for sharing with us here.

Your 3D really smacked that dime,,,, crisp, loud and very clear. Like Lipservice said, 10" + would be no problem for your 3D. Thanks for the video njnydigger.

To be quite honest guys, I was shocked myself. That was the first time that I did a burial test with a coin on my CZ. However, I KNEW it could hit on a dime with an audible, clear tone just based on my experiences in the field. My lesche is a good 9" or 10"...and I am routinely digging dimes from holes that are deeper than my lesche is large. BUT, the reason for the surprise was because of just HOW well & audible the signal was. It was pretty darned strong as you saw in the video. And my volume was only on 5. Aaaaaaaaaaaaand normally freshly buried deeper coins are tougher to pick-up since there is no halo from them being in the ground for many years. And I clearly didn't use the brine solution as many folks do. Still, no problem picking up the dime. In all fairness, the ground WAS very moist. That might have had a slight hand in the matter. Again though, I am getting phenomenal depth on my unit.

I feel for you lipservice. I've been where you are before. Just look up my post on here; "I curse the Omega" Same problems, different detector. My advice...

Send it in to Tom for a look-over. Let him run his battery of tests on it. Get it back and try again. If it fails, it's probably a faulty unit. If it starts hitting though, you're gonna fall in love.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2011 12:35AM by njnydigger.

Good job on the video there njnydigger