THE LONG AWAITED CZ3D

colonial78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> why would you buy a antique with the tech that is out now

Why ?

Because some new technology is garbage.
Because some of the older so called antiques are built better.
Because they are reliable and do not break down.
Because those antiques work just as well, if not better than, some of these new models, for what I hunt for and where I hunt.
Because I have been using these so called antiques for over 20+ years with no regrets and feel the most confident and comfortable using them.

Why drive a classic muscle car when you could drive a Tesla ? Because I can and I know better.

A CZ beach detector would be nice. Even with the imaginary Manta coming out someday, I think a CZ for the beach would still be a top competitor.

Forums are not clubs. They are the property of the forum owner. The style, content and rules of any forum are those that the forum owner chooses to have displayed there. If the forum owner allows forum members to post personal attacks without sanction, that is the choice of the forum owner and theirs alone.

We all know of forum where any post which violates the norms or personal beliefs of the forum owner results in rapid warning or even banning.

Tom chooses to allow wide ranging comment and that at times becomes heated and personal. So be it. I don’t like it and I say so. Do I take my toys and go home, no I don’t - there is much here to learn.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

ozzie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Examples of why we defend inanimate objects, senti
> mentality ;
> -Driving a 60's muscle car verses a newer, faster,
> lighter, all wheel speed demon.
> -Wood working with manual tools verses power tools
> .
> -Hunting or target shooting with an old re-curve b
> ow verses a new compound. Shooting your pops old r
> ifle.
> -Keeping old cards or letters your young children
> gave you to express them selves.
> -Using an old reel your dad gave you in your youth
> so you would experience fishing.
> -Owning antique furniture because of the build and
> the looks.
> -Digging up relics because we like the feeling we
> get when daydreaming about our past history.
> -Buying and maybe fixing up a century or older sto
> ne or framed house.
> -Using an old legendary analog detector that you k
> now like the back of your hand. One that has made
> gallons of adrenaline pump through your heart and
> has sniffed out hundreds of artifacts and old coi
> nage.
>
> Just a few examples why we prefer using the outdat
> ed, obsolete and cumbersome. It's not just ALL jus
> t business. We know the newer can save us some tim
> e and be more efficient. We often go by feelings w
> e can't explain or make sense of. I can see the ne
> wer is better and it doesn't bother me when compar
> isons are made. I know what my old cz can and can'
> t do. I won't get offended by the bashing....I und
> erstand the points as to why would you use an old
> outdated detector verses a new tec one. I've been
> trying to express 'why' in my posts. I'm definite
> ly not a word smith. Hope y'all can catch my drift
> .....


Good thoughts Ozzie.
I understand.
The thing though is just being honest all the way around.
Sure using anything older is fine. But also admit and talk about the actual Pros of the newer.
Some folks here seems are stuck in time.
These types of folks likely would not be good detector engineers (with degree) or good marketing person (with degree).
Just my opinion.
Wonder what would happen if Minelab releases Etrac 2.
It looks and feels a lot like EQX and cost $1000 and has same amenities provided as EQx 800 currently does. And actual performance mirrors Etrac exactly (electronically).
Yeah they do this these old Etrac, explorers would be a dime a dozen.
Listening Minelab?

And if they released such a model detector.
Wonder if say 5 years down the road they (Minelab) released a detector (ONE) that does what Etrac and Equinox 800 does??
Could this be where Minelab is going?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2019 01:34PM by tnsharpshooter.

"This whole"it has to be a Tom tuned" thing has become a joke".

Sounds like some little "rad" SnowFlake might be JEALOUS.

So, let me get this straight. A guy buys (willingly) a 20+ year old detector then has to send it off and spend more money on it to be "certified". Right? What happens when the 20 year old detector only "certifies" to 10.5"... in mild ground even... ( certainly not your ground!)? Are you now stuck with a 20 year old piece of tech or do you unload it, at a loss due to certification fees, on some unsuspecting detectorist and then start all over? I would suspect the later. It was mentioned a couple of times earlier in this thread, and I have to agree, why would anybody buy a 20 year old detector that has to be sent off to be tweaked, or certified, or whatever when we have such incredible new tech introduced every year ( except from American manufacturers...then it's just the SOS)?


Thanks for the vids CD. Keep em coming.


Dean

I am not stuck in time and only use analogs. I have used a Etrac since day one. Its also a great deep coin hunter.
But a 'Proper' CZ is also on pure raw depth. People still use them for a reason. Believe Me if it didn't hit deep coins I would not own one. But You have to know it to get the depth out of it. Even the Etrac at the edge of depth beyond the warble it will give a clipped sound but the numbers will be rite on. Most Guys who don't put in the time to learn this type tone would walk over it and miss that 11"-12" Barber dime in a pounded park.
A lot of guys don't keep a detector more than a month or two and say it is no good. You have to learn it.

Imagine a CZ with today's computerized screen technology combined with a modern coil. That would be the best of both worlds.

Harold your welcome to stop by and show us how to hit the deep stuff in my garden. I will even feed you for free...Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not stuck in time and only use analogs. I hav
> e used a Etrac since day one. Its also a great dee
> p coin hunter.
> But a 'Proper' CZ is also on pure raw depth. Peopl
> e still use them for a reason. Believe Me if it di
> dn't hit deep coins I would not own one. But You h
> ave to know it to get the depth out of it. Even th
> e Etrac at the edge of depth beyond the warble it
> will give a clipped sound but the numbers will be
> rite on. Most Guys who don't put in the time to le
> arn this type tone would walk over it and miss tha
> t 11"-12" Barber dime in a pounded park.
> A lot of guys don't keep a detector more than a mo
> nth or two and say it is no good. You have to lear
> n it.

Some CZ historical data. Newer members here may find interesting.

[www.detectorprospector.com]

Wonder what will be said about Nox 15 years from now?

More info
[www.fisherlab.com]

Nice little thread here. With Engineer Mr Johnson commenting.
[www.findmall.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2019 03:15PM by tnsharpshooter.

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not stuck in time and only use analogs. I hav
> e used a Etrac since day one. Its also a great dee
> p coin hunter.
> But a 'Proper' CZ is also on pure raw depth. Peopl
> e still use them for a reason. Believe Me if it di
> dn't hit deep coins I would not own one. But You h
> ave to know it to get the depth out of it. Even th
> e Etrac at the edge of depth beyond the warble it
> will give a clipped sound but the numbers will be
> rite on. Most Guys who don't put in the time to le
> arn this type tone would walk over it and miss tha
> t 11"-12" Barber dime in a pounded park.
> A lot of guys don't keep a detector more than a mo
> nth or two and say it is no good. You have to lear
> n it.

Seriously?! One of your hero's on this forum buys detectors (lots of them), makes a cryptic post about it, swings it for a WEEK or TWO, gives it a "cute" name, proclaims it's the greatest thing since sliced bread or not...then sells it and moves on to the next. He doesn't even post video to show why he came to his conclusion. And you eat it up!

Dean

Dean, Who is that? You lost Me on that one.
My only Hero is the Thing from the Fantastic Four.

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dean, Who is that? You lost Me on that one.
> My only Hero is the Thing from the Fantastic Four.


Ha! I like him too, Harold.

Think about it a bit. You will figure it out.

Dean

The term “Changer” might be a clue.
Key word might. I could be wrong.
Have been before.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2019 04:43PM by tnsharpshooter.

doc holiday Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "This whole"it has to be a Tom tuned" thing has be
> come a joke".
>
> Sounds like some little "rad" SnowFlake might be J
> EALOUS.

I see you keep up with some of my catch phrases Doc. I loved the 80's...what can I say.

That was not an attack on Tom. Don't read between lines not there. Comprehension is key. I have the utmost respect for Tom and his CZ service.

My issue was the hoops CD has to jump through...a Tom tuned...1021...stickered to 12.1 inches...yadda yadda....

Don't make it sound like I had any other intent. Jealousy? Calling me a snowflake? Who knows what you are rambling on about. Take your meds.

My YouTube - [www.youtube.com]
Website - [www.thehuntergt.com]

TheHunterGT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> doc holiday Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "This whole"it has to be a Tom tuned" thing has
> be
> > come a joke".
> >
> > Sounds like some little "rad" SnowFlake might be
> J
> > EALOUS.
>
> I see you keep up with some of my catch phrases Do
> c. I loved the 80's...what can I say.











>
> That was not an attack on Tom. Don't read between
> lines not there. Comprehension is key. I have th
> e utmost respect for Tom and his CZ service.
>
> My issue was the hoops CD has to jump through...a
> Tom tuned...1021...stickered to 12.1 inches...yadd
> a yadda....
>
> Don't make it sound like I had any other intent.
> Jealousy? Calling me a snowflake? Who knows wha
> t you are rambling on about. Take your meds.

SURE.

Tnss - thanks, useful stuff. Just in case folks don’t get around to clicking on all of the links, here is what Dave Johnson posted about CZ Detector calibration history, etc.

”If you don't have the "inside dope", it'd be easy to think that Fisher was shipping great stuff from Los Banos and when they went on the auction block, First Texas bought a great company and proceeded to screw everything up. But that is not what happened.

When FTP bought Fisher, Fisher was dying a horrible death. I saw the factory, I saw the books. Same building, mostly the same people, but a completely different company from the one I'd left in 1995. Manufacturing was in total chaos, sales on everything were falling like a rock, profits were a negative million dollars a year, and they were selling some products below manufacturing cost just to make it look like they still had a business. I told the boss that I may still love Fisher, but as a business matter he shouldn't pay a dime for it. Fortunately he didn't listen to me on that one, and here we are nearly 10 years later shipping more "Old Fisher" product than the "Old Fisher" was shipping.

Part of what killed the "Old Fisher", was that under the Roger Cimino regime there was an effort to reduce manufacturing costs by cutting stuff out without first understanding why things were the way they were. In the case of the CZ's, they replaced the original labor-intensive calibration procedure I wrote, with a Cimino procedure to make it real easy to pass one final step provided that you didn't then exercise the machine to do everything it was supposed to do. In short, it was a fake calibration that fooled only the person doing the calibration, not the customer. The result was enormous variation, with no machines actually doing what they should. The situation created an aftermarket calibration business for Dankowski, who'd been sufficiently involved with the CZ3D to know how it worked and how to calibrate it.

When FTP bought what was left of Fisher, they didn't tell us that the correct calibration procedure had been scrapped and replaced with a Cimino procedure. When the operation was moved to El Paso, the procedure that people were taught was the Los Banos procedure. Since machines were passing that test, we were puzzled why so many problems were being reported by customers. Finally I got dragged into it, discovered that the calibration procedure being used was completely wrong, and plowed through the archives looking for a copy of the original procedure. Fortunately it was there. We resurrected it, made a couple minor modifications to it, made sure that all copies of the Cimino procedure were destroyed, and deployed the correct procedure.

Even with the correct procedure in hand, the CZ is a difficult machine to tweak up. If you're inexperienced or in a hurry, the result is a sloppy tweak (although still far superior to a Cimino tweak). Things got a lot better overnight, and with experience and with emphasis on not being in a hurry, fairly soon complaints of lousy tweak just about vanished.

--Dave J.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Who cares they were putting out crap...If Ford, Chevy, or even Dodge sold you a car that had to be worked on as soon as you drove it out of the gate you would not put up with it for a minute. My mentor used the F75 and T2 machines when they first came out and it was the same kind of crap. countless Updates , he broke 3 machines , and the T2 he had would run erratic when it got humid because first texas didnt seal something in it and on and on . You should be mad at companies selling sub par products and not trying to justify it. Detectorist are really a strange bunch sometimes..

Oh you just sold me a new detector for a 1000 bucks and I need to get fixed.... not only is that OK I will even take up for you and justify it..... RIDICULOUS



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2019 08:29PM by calabash digger.

calabash digger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who cares they were putting out crap...If Ford, Ch
> evy, or even Dodge sold you a car that had to be w
> orked on as soon as you drove it out of the gate y
> ou would not put up with it for a minute. My mento
> r used the F75 and T2 machines when they first ca
> me out and it was the same kind of crap. countles
> s Updates , he broke 3 machines , and the T2 he ha
> d would run erratic when it got humid because firs
> t texas didnt seal something in it and on and on .
> You should be mad at companies selling sub par pro
> ducts and not trying to justify it. Detectorist ar
> e really a strange bunch sometimes..
>
> Oh you just sold me a new detector for a 1000 buck
> s and I need to get fixed.... not only is that OK
> I will even take up for you and justify it..... RI
> DICULOUS

A fellow on this forum has a thriving business selling replacement shafts for the, GASP, NoKnox.

The events reported by Dave were more than 20 years ago. Truck reliability - are you kidding me? Check the frequency of repair records on current Ford, GM and Ram pickups - not exactly spotless.

[repairpal.com]

[repairpal.com]

[repairpal.com]

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2019 10:25PM by lytle78.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The term “Changer” might be a clue.
> Key word might. I could be wrong.
> Have been before.


Winner, winner chicken dinner!

Dean

bado1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The term “Changer” might be a clue.
> > Key word might. I could be wrong.
> > Have been before.
>
>
> Winner, winner chicken dinner!
>
> Dean

I like my chicken extra crispy.
Send over nite fed ex.
That way my chances of getting salmonella poisoning reduced.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2019 11:16PM by tnsharpshooter.

The Button Daddy?

Tnss - if you don’t eat road kill, my respect for you is marginally decreased - come on - admit it ! Lol

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tnss - if you don’t eat road kill, my respect for
> you is marginally decreased - come on - admit it !
> Lol


Naw, don’t have to eat road kill. Courtesy of Uncle Sam.
Did pluck a small varmit today at 64 yards with rimmie. Headshot. Bingo.
So the name tnss lives on. Lol

doc holiday Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> calabash digger Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Who cares they were putting out crap...If Ford,
> Ch
> > evy, or even Dodge sold you a car that had to be
> w
> > orked on as soon as you drove it out of the gate
> y
> > ou would not put up with it for a minute. My men
> to
> > r used the F75 and T2 machines when they first
> ca
> > me out and it was the same kind of crap. countl
> es
> > s Updates , he broke 3 machines , and the T2 he
> ha
> > d would run erratic when it got humid because fi
> rs
> > t texas didnt seal something in it and on and on
> .
> > You should be mad at companies selling sub par p
> ro
> > ducts and not trying to justify it. Detectorist
> ar
> > e really a strange bunch sometimes..
> >
> > Oh you just sold me a new detector for a 1000 bu
> ck
> > s and I need to get fixed.... not only is that O
> K
> > I will even take up for you and justify it.....
> RI
> > DICULOUS
>
> A fellow on this forum has a thriving business sel
> ling replacement shafts for the, GASP, NoKnox.


A new shaft for the Nox is purely a "luxury" and certainly not necessary. Imagine how all of you Negative Nancy's would react if the Nox HAD to be sent in to be calibrated and certified AFTER purchase! But, somehow, this 20 year old CZ machine gets a pass from you guys!? Weird.

Dean

Didn't the Nox already have to get some kind of a upgrade to hit harder on Silver coins on edge or something like that? The Nox like most digitals won't even last 20 years. They are a disposable detector.
At least CZs are still out there finding deep Silver



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2019 11:51PM by Harold,ILL..

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Didn't the Nox already have to get some kind of a
> upgrade to hit harder on Silver coins on edge or s
> omething like that? The Nox like most digitals won
> 't even last 20 years. They are a disposable detec
> tor.
> At least CZs are still out there finding deep Silv
> er


Harold,
Think about this.
Some folks are fisher loyal folks. I’m ok with that.
But guess what.
Fisher hasn’t made a better detector any model for deeper silver with ID.
If they would have made say a digital job.
The CZ 3D would have been forgotten by most folks or maybe better said not talked about as much.
Think, wonder if Minelab wouldn’t have made CTX, Etrac.
We would be hearing loads about explorer line wouldn’t we?
They do still work.

The cz3d being the latter released looks to have stole the show from older released CZ models. And this imo proves my point.

Yeah Nox may be only a small memory if Minelab releases more models that do similar or more things as Nox.
Imo Minelab will sit back a while.
And await some competion before they release more models.
Yeah they may already have a new model ready or close to ready.
Why release though?
If Nox sales are good.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2019 12:02AM by tnsharpshooter.

Actually, there are serious operators who believe that under some conditions, nothing has surpadssed the Sovereign.

CTX - leaks - screens die - resale value slashed - are all those who shelled out north of $2k happy now? I don’t know - I didn’t.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Fisher or should I say FT tried with the F75 which relic hunters love, But most coin hunters don't. I wish they would make a updated digital type CZ. If they did I would be first in line to buy one.