CZ3D VDI VS EQUINOX...

Looking at the two machines capabilities.cz3d...

Cal,

Obviously a numeric ID/various tone unit is going to have a difference in numeric ID values ( which are really just buckets where a target can be put in an assigned a number based on conductivity. Shoot...a company can make a unit with a numeric value scale 1-1000) as well as tonal features.

Again bear in mind, CZ's have segmented windows, where several different conductive targets are put in one segment. Funny how you say a clad penny ID"s as 'money' on a CZ just like a silver dime, and on the Nox they are 2 different ID's. Yes...but they are both MONEY.

You are also running in Enhanced mode, which, like I stated before, reacts different to some lower conductive targets and puts some of them in the upper segment. Would be curious to see you run the same test in Salt mode. Wonder if some of those non coin targets hit as a mid tone. If you do, make sure you re-ground balance in Salt mode.

Glad you did this test as it just confirms what a lot of us CZ users already know. We don't care too much about numeric ID's, nor a whole bunch of tones. One of the main things we like about the units are it's depth and simplicity. We don't really try to figure out what a target is by a bunch of changing numeric values or 99 tones.

If it's a solid mid tone or high tone hit, from multiple angles and pin points small...WE DIG IT. Not sure how many of us still look at the meter after 20+ years of using them. Maybe some who like to cherry pick on occasions.

Appreciate the time you took to do some above ground testing.

When You hunt a site with a CZ-3D you use the modulated audio and dig the softer audio hits as they are deeper and most likely older. Once again You have to spent time to learn it. I also had a Etrac for Years and went behind it with My CZ-3D and found deep coins it missed. I did not know a Equinox can tell silver from clad? I guess I missed that one? Even the Etrac can't do that with a level of certainty as clad Quarters and dimes basically get same I.D. number maybe different at Depth.
The Old Explorers gave a more tell tale silver warble but not so much the Etrac.

Calabash likes to create controversy.


Comparison videos should do just that, compare and let the viewers decide what is best for them. I actually enjoyed Calabash’s first few videos, up until he started berating the “inferior” machines. Now it has gotten very old, and very predictable. One thing always left out, is the skill someone has acquired from many hours of learning a detector. I have witnessed a guy with an uncanny ability to predict what’s under the coil from just the tone. I admire the time and dedication it must have taken for someone to be able to do this. A detector’s operator is a large portion of the equation, and this has been left out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2019 07:50PM by Kraemer.

Harold,

Even though the CZ's are somewhat simplistic, us old timers know there are a lot of nuances in them that the only way to learn them, is to use them for a while.

We understand one cannot really convey to a new CZ user what deep silver sounds like when running the volume at 4 and adjusting your headphone volume accordingly to hear that mellow soft 'ping'. I mean, I can type 'mellow, soft ping' but what the heck does that really mean !?

Then try to tell them deep iron will sound different, and shallow iron will blow your ears off while a shallow silver coin won't, or that to use the VCO pin point to size up a target and isolate it, and if it pin points in a different spot than where you targeted while sweeping, or pin points in two spots, it's a very good chance it's iron. I still think the VCO pin point on the analog CZ's is a godsend.

Or try to tell them the 8 inch concentric coil is really different than the 10.5 inch coil in certain applications. Or that the small inch coil can really go deep because you can crank up the sensitivity while the CZ can still operate stable. That manually ground balancing every so often is really a good thing to do (it only takes 15 seconds !).

Don't get me started on trying to explain to them using autotune in conjunction with discriminate mode, and learning what autotune can tell you terms of what a target signature may be....never mind !

Oh well...some will still try to learn, but not many since those CZ's are so gosh darn old and use old technology.

I've used a CZ70 quite a lot back in the day and it was a great deep silver seeker (my first really deep turf coin detector), once your muscle memory recognizes that faint ping of a deep coin, you'll never forget it.

That said, the Equinox also provides that ability. I've dug some ultra deep silver coins from pounded sites with the Equinox and just love when you get that faint high tone and faint pinpoint and remove several shovels of dirt for the silver reveal !! I've adjusted the audio a bit on my Equinox and it has that silver warble tone of the Explorer to my ears.

Never used a CZ3D though, as I transitioned from a turf hunter to relic sites and the CZ's simply cannot compete with today's iron sifting machines.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
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>CZ's simply can not compete with today's iron sifting machines.

Unfortunately that is true. Most of the iron sifters have DD coils available too, which makes it a better animal to start.

Most CZ users know that and probably have a much better iron sifter in the arsenal to use when applicable. I don't take mine to certain places I know is loaded with small iron (unless it's the salt water beach since a CZ always follows me there no matter how many other detectors are loaded up in the truck for the journey). But if I do have my CZ in my hands and hit a spot with a lot of iron, I can hold my own with the best of them. But that's because I have been using mine for close to 20 years. Not gonna lie though, I probably will get fooled more than if I had the better iron sifting unit in my hands.

It's funny that no matter how many videos or comparisons are done, it comes back to the environment we hunt and how we mesh with the detector we have.

All I know is, when I hunt on salt water beaches in the dry and wet sand and suds, if I have my CZ in my hand, I know I can traverse back and forth between both and know I have a unit that will perform optimally in either scenario without much fussing around with settings, controls or me having to read a manual again to remember what does what.

The good thing about all this is some people will take his advise and not buy one and save a lot of coins for those of us who know how to use it.lol

Welgund Wrote:
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> The good thing about all this is some people will
> take his advise and not buy one and save a lot of
> coins for those of us who know how to use it.lol

Yes maybe word got out as one on eBay Tom tuned 12.1" 1021 went for 478.00! That is cheap and it was mint.
It looked like same Detector Guy tried to get 950.00 for as same pictures but new location?

Kraemer Wrote:
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> Calabash likes to create controversy.
>
>
> Comparison videos should do just that, compare and
> let the viewers decide what is best for them. I ac
> tually enjoyed Calabash’s first few videos, up unt
> il he started berating the “inferior” machines. No
> w it has gotten very old, and very predictable. On
> e thing always left out, is the skill someone has
> acquired from many hours of learning a detector. I
> have witnessed a guy with an uncanny ability to pr
> edict what’s under the coil from just the tone. I
> admire the time and dedication it must have taken
> for someone to be able to do this. A detector’s op
> erator is a large portion of the equation, and thi
> s has been left out.


correct! old cali aint a gonna like this but it should be said.
many "tesoro" users (there's that word again cali!) can make the call by tone alone! to reiterate,a tesoro has audio 'nuances" that once learned allow a skilled operator to do just that! indicate ,(with accuracy) the target under the coil,by listening to
the "tone"of that target.

(h.h.!)
j.t.
he

He had that CZ on there forever at 950. I myself would have probably went for it if I didn't already own 2.lol. 12.1 is not much more than my 11.9 CZ6a so I held off.

CZ3D super coin hunter compared to a minelab....I am about to fall out of my chair laughing. Remember not all silver is 8 or 9 inches in the ground. Out of the last four silvers I dug only half reale was deep. The 1 reale, seated half dime ,and seated dime were all four inchs or less. I hear you up there about only digging the deep faint blips with the CZ3D but that means you might be walking right over the shallower silver. Unless of course your using a Equinox and then it would tell you it was a silver coin but the CZ3D cant do that can it....

If you like digging clad then the CZ3D is probably just the machine for you guys....

Out of curiosity, what did it cost to have Tom calibrate, and super tune, the CZ's?

TexHunter Wrote:
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> Out of curiosity, what did it cost to have Tom cal
> ibrate, and super tune, the CZ's?

100 bucks
some REAL info
[www.dankowskidetectors.com]

Yeah sounds like the fake news guys.

I got a validated 14 inch Deus and Equinox and I even got the paperwork with them. Thing is their pretty common though ...

UHHH OHHH, Here we go again!!!!-----Nice shirt!!!-----You got the shaft extended too long on the Equinox!!!-----What's that white thing on the ground behind you??-----When you going to do a ORX versus E800???????????-------One last question: Was you ever a used car salesman??????

Fake news guys??? WTFO?

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

I think the key question is Eventhough the Equinox can Hit a 14" Silver dime in Your garden have You ever dug one with it? I have dug quite a few 11"-12" Barber and Seated dimes with My CZ-3D.

I dug a half reale at around 9 with it the other day and its on video. Come to think of it I should bury it and see if the cz3d will peep on it at 9 inches...small target. POINT BEING Harold is at least I would have a chance to dig it if I got over one with the Equinox. You get over one with the CZ3D your --- out of luck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2019 01:02AM by calabash digger.

lytle78 Wrote:
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> Fake news guys??? WTFO?

I wondered when CAPTAIN RESCUE A DETECTOR would show up...

Sorry dude, the Equinox is not going to tell you it's a silver coin. It's gonna tell there is a high conductive target under the coil and based on how the ID parameters are coded, will render a number and tone. Same as a CZ only it's a segment and tone. Bet you dug a silver thimble or charm that you thought at first would be a silver coin a few times.

The entire garbage about telling it's a silver coin vs a clad coin or anything else, in the ground, with accuracy, is the real fake news.

If you tell me you never dug a silver coin that had a numeric ID of a clad (or lower), and everyone you dug had a high ID number, I call bullshit. That silver dime next to iron in your test garden ID'd no where near a silver coin accurately while you were sweeping the coil....yet it was a diggable signal. Just proves numeric ID is useless in a lot of scenarios.

14 inches on what...a man hole cover ? Sure as hell it's not on a dime in the ground.

Then again, I was digging 8 Reales close to two feet deep in the wet salt sand with my CZ with an 8 inch coil, so I would guess 14 inches on one of them is good enough for a Deus. Of course the Deus would crumble in the wet salt sand I was digging in so that contest is over before it even gets started. It may get one at 6 inches in that scenario.

I do know this for sure. To date, CZ's have targeted and ID'd a hell of a lot more silver coins (caches not included so you aren't going to get me on a technicality) than all the Deus's and Nox's put together...and that is real news. I know, you will argue that the CZ's have been around a heck of a lot longer. Yet you are comparing them to state of the art units in your videos correct ?

You can talk trash about clad coins all you want. I will dig them all day long and convert them to gold and silver at the end of the year...just like I have been doing every year for the last 25+ years. Those clad coins have multiplied 10 fold over that time frame.

You dont know as much as you think you know....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2019 02:14AM by calabash digger.

I'd take a calibrated (for ID reasons dont care about depth) CZ3D over anything besides an Etrac when coin shooting.

calabash digger Wrote:
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> You dont as much as you think you know....

If you can re-phrase that so I can understand it, I can respond.

But if you think a 5 minute test in your mild soil test garden is the be all end all in determining what a detector can and cannot do, then that is the definition of cognitive dissonance theory

My test garden is my measuring rod for what I do. I for the life of me cant figure out where you guys are coming from with the CZ3D . Maybe I am slow …. Could be though I dont chase clad and that's where the disconnect is.

Thanks for the videos Calabash! Most of these guys here claim they dug this and that with this machine and that machine at some kind of guessed at depth from the good old days. I say where's your proof? Keep the comparison videos coming Calabash.

Cal,

All I am asking, in terms of numeric target ID, is have you ever dug a silver thimble or silver charm that ID'd the same as a silver coin ?

AND...have you ever dug a silver coin that ID'd as a numeric ID lower than expected (possibly due to co-located targets or iron in the hole and you made the decision to dig) ?

My hunting partner has a Nox 800. Was one of the first ones to get one up here. He is making killer finds with it. He likes the unit a lot. But admits that the ID on that unit is for crap compared to other units he has used (the last being a CTX). Also, he is a tone hunter for the most part, coming from years of using a Sov GT on the beach, so he doesn't put hardly any value on the ID number on the Nox. When I first got my Makro MMK, we were comparing ID numbers. Totally useless exercise since the Nox has a certain numeric range and the MMK a wider one.

He went out the other day with his Nox to a spot we have been pounding for years. An old picnic grove. Very rare that an old silver coins pops up. Still find a few wheaties on every hunt though.

When he found a Barber dime the other day, he texted me that this signal was all over the map ID wise and tonally. There was a nice high chirp in the tone which prompted him to check the screen just to see what the ID was since he sometimes is curious. It was a 22-23 ID every so often but for the most part the numeric ID was garbage. But the tone was what made him make the dig no dig decision, not the ID. He dug and out popped the Barber. There was some rust in the hole so he thinks there was a small bit of iron near the dime.

My opinion is that the numeric ID's on these units (any unit for that matter) is only as good as you want it to be.

Also...for the record. I think the Nox platform is a great one. Based on my hunting style and where I hunt, its probably the next unit I purchase when I sell off some of my land units. But I will never sell any of the 5 CZ's I have. Nope. That's because I salt water wet sand hunt most of the time and they do better than any VLF I have used, and hold up to the pounding units take salt water beach hunting. That includes a CTX, E-Trac, Sov GT, DFX, V3i, and any other multi freq unit that can run in the wet salt. Sov GT is second in my book. I just don't like screens on units when wet sand hunting. But that is just my experience. I won't say any of the others are garbage or useless because I used them and made good finds with them.

So you may think I don't know what I am talking about and that's fine. But you don't salt water beach hunt, so I don't expect you to think I do. Until you do, don't chime in that you read about other units and how they are better. I'll give it up to the Deus for relic hunting in iron. But it won't come close to a CZ on a salt water beach. You know that. So those units you test in the mild soil test garden, that's fine n dandy. But it is not the environment I hunt in.

Now circle back to first two sentences. I know your answer is yes to both of them.

Of course it is and I hope that I didnt give you the impression that I hunt by VDI numbers. Notice my Deus hunting videos the remote is in the pocket and its done by tone alone. Tone is king.....I am not a screen watcher on a machine. The silver dime in my test garden under the iron nails is a good example of a vdi number scale being flawed by the iron.

With all that being said these guys are acting like the CZ3D I D is infallible or something and it didnt take much to fool it in my test videos today....a few items were pushing the meter into the coin range on it but the Equinox was not fooled by them.

Cal..I know you are a tone hunter and a damn good one. I like how you hunt with the Deus and using just the tones and how your ear is trained to them, how a tone or tonal change can stop you in your tracks to sniff out a good target. That takes time to learn and a lot of field time.

That was my point in trying to reiterate why numerical ( and even segmented) ID is secondary to tone. I strictly tone hunt using my CZ and it only has 3 tones. So when I viewed the video on how you were sampling the 5 inch dime with the nail and mentioned tonal changes, realize a tonal change on a CZ is more simplistic and can be a low to high, low to med, med to high (and vice versa) where as on a Nox, Deus or other units with a lot of tone options, the changes are more complex, hence the ability to get more info. To me even though there are less tone options, it takes a bit longer to get ear trained on a CZ. There are subtle differences in the high tone on a CZ, even though it is one pitch. High tones (the range) on the Nox/Deus have a range of pitches, making it easier to hear them. So yes, a clad coin may be a bit lower in pitch in the high tone range than a silver coin, but it's not a definite that it will be either, and most times if not all, you aren't going to pass up a sweet high tone no matter what pitch range it is in.

What I am also trying to say is that there are certain environments where a CZ will trump a Deus and that is just a fact. Those environments are where I hunt the most.

Bottom line is, a CZ would not be my first choice if I was hunting the areas you mostly hunt (which I am guessing for the most part, are fields and old home sites with iron looking for relics), and a Deus would not be the first choice for you if were hunting areas I hunt (wet salt sand looking for old silver coins and gold jewelry). You would definitely go for the Nox over the Deus in my areas...I will still stick with the CZ because I know it the best...not that it may or may not out hunt a Nox, Excal or whatever. It's like the old pair of comfortable shoes scenario. May not be the most stylish, up to date pair, but I can wear them all day and smile.

I can bet that although you like the Nox, and maybe a few other units, the Deus is the trump card in your arsenal because you know it the best and if you are going to a brand new site, that's the heater you hunt with first. And guess what, it may not even be the optimal unit for the site, but because you know it so well, you don't care because you have confidence in it.