Tough weekend with the F75

There are some 'certain era' targets in different huntable areas that may read/ID as 'nickel' on any brand detector...... so this is normal.
Have your buddy (with his Explorer) find a few deeper coins........ and see how your CZ will ID them. .. You may want to adjust your Gnd Bal on these targets to see if you can acquire a better ID resolution.

I will try that today Tom, Thanks, TMAN...

I got the 75 back today and took er for a spin at the old park we have been hunting. After getting it put together we went to an area that we hadnt hunted before and it was slim pickins. I set sens at 50, disc at 6 and notched out my favs "tabs". I dug a wheatie and a couple of bottle caps, but I noticed on them that they didnt hit like they did before. They were broken sounding and usually 1 way signals. That brightened my mood some. The wheatie sounded off at 67-68 at 5 inches. I dug and it was at 5 inches. I hunted around and hit the spot that I had hit with the CZ and it was a little chatty GB was at 88. I popped out a wheatie at 6 inches with a bottle cap ON TOP of it. I was pretty happy about that. THe target signals were ok but with the ground so hot, if I got a good tone I investigated it. Sometimes it would break up and be very shallow so I would move on. I finally got an iffy signal at 7 inches. I popped out a silver rosie, checked the hole again and got a broken signal on top and there was a wheatie, then a buffalo and then another rosie and then another wheatie. I love pocket spills. With the new coil and what a new battery pack the machine seems to be working as advertized. I still dont trust the digital ID to much but the tones sound off well, it is settled down and the depth meter in pin point seems to be pretty close to being spot on. I ended up with 2 silvers, 5 wheaties 5 mems 1 dime and 1 buff and 15 bottle caps. lol. TMAN...

tman -- was it quiet? Did you change disc at all? What did Fisher say they did to it?

They said they changed the coil and they changed the battery box. It seemed to have quieted down but I am getting ticks that I wasnt before. I still need some time on it but as far as coins it seems to do well and it of course does well on bottlecaps. lol. I run the disc at 6 and the sens at 50 and was getting targets at 7 inches which is about the max depth we have pulled coins out of that park. The reason is the sink rate is almost none existant due to a layer of river stone that runs through the area. My buddy pulled a barber dime at 2 inches out of there on one of our hunts. Hope this helps. TMAN...

Thanks. Prior to sending mine back, I had a problem I've seen described here and on other forums that Fisher approached with skepticism. If I changed disc to ANYTHING hire than 10 or tried to notch something out above the presets, the system would degrade over about 10 minutes until it was randomly going through lights/sounds at machine-gun speed. A factory reset, brought me back to a quiet but sensitive machine for about 2 hours when that degradation started again. Essentially you could increase the speed of an unavoidable problem by changing disc and notch. Sensitivity didn't effect the poor operation. In fact, after a reset, you could easily run at 95 and not have an abundance of interference.

This is the type of behavior you see in the programming world when you have a memory "leak" where a program refuses to release memory. This causes an exponential slow down in performance which can manifest itself in what a user would think is bizarre behavior.

I said all of that because I was curious if they mentioned new software

Shambler, sorry it took so long to respond. Been paying attention to Ike and keeping up with my family down there. Everyone is fine but my wife doesnt have power. As far as the 75 goes, they didnt say anything about the software. The packing slip said they replaced the coil and the battery springs but I think they replaced the whole battery box as it had a new serial number. The previous number was 0308XXXX now its 0408XXXX.

I took it out between rain showers here in the Chicago area. I went with my buddy and wasnt getting any signals. I was getting ticks but nothing even half way solid. My buddy checked behind me and my luck of picking spots continues. lol. There wasnt anything there to dig. LOL. I got a couple of 30s but were inconsistant so I switched over to all metal and they went to 37-39 which were notched out. I finally got a signal at 6 inches dug and it was a memorial. I got another 66-67 at about 7. Dug it and out popped a 1903 V nickel. I air tested it and it ranged out at 30. What is strange about that is that of the 4 V nickels I found this year, three rang high in the 60 or higher range. Of the other two, other coins were in the hole but this one came out alone.

Over all the machine is running quiet and I am still checking it out for tones and overall depth. SO far I have dug coins at 7. Still looking to see how deep it will detect. TMAN...

Still checking the new coil out. Nothing new to report except that it doesnt appear to have the EMI that it did before. It runs pretty quiet but havent had many targets to check. Went out yesterday and hit a wet park that has been hunted pretty heavily. Found a 1916s wheatie and a few clad coins but it was pretty dang quiet. I need to find another spot I guess. TMAN...

That's good to hear. You may still run into EMI...... but as long as the problem is substantially less.... that's a good thing.

Took the F75 to a old homestead here in NWI Saturday. GOIO and I hit the yard around an old old barn but didnt have any luck. The guy who let us hunt had a daughter that was interested in hunting so I let her use my Cz3D. She found a clad dime. I think she is hooked. lol. We went to an old football field and hunted for an hour or so. Not many coins. Greg found a few wheaties and I found a silver rosie but that was it. We got back to the house and I decided to go hunt a school that has given up at least 50 bucks in change over the last year to me. I hunted an hour and got 24 coins all at 6 inches or less, no silver but I was wanting to check the 75 out there to test it with shallow coins since i havent had much luck lately.

Today we hit an old park in the area. Greg has a new etrac with a sunray probe, (I have to get me one of those probes) so he let me try it out since I dont think he will ever use it. lol. Another MDer Dave met us there and he has an etrac also. I got a quick lesson on the numbering system since it has the fe/conductive numbers posted at the top. After about 15 minutes I got a pretty good 12/46 near a tree at about 7 inches. I dug it and out popped a near mint 1924D SLQ. She was on edge at about 6 inches or so. I was shocked. Not bad, first time out with borrowed machine. I found that the etrac seemed to be pretty easy to use. It was set up in coin mode and 4 tones. Greg got a few tones and let me listen, the etrac found them at about 8 inches. All three were wheaties, the numbers were pretty consistant at 11-12/39-41 except for one that bounced from 10-24 on fe but the conduct side was steady at 43. Interesting day to say the least. I found out Dave has a coin garden that has been growing for 2 years so I am gonna take the 75 over this week and check it out. I will let ya know what I find out. TMAN...

Went to Dave's place Monday and hit the coin garden with the 75 and Etrac. Tried the 75 and it did ok. Some of the coins on edge couldnt be ID'ed and 2 were not very clear but could get a tone. The etrac only got 1 out of 4. These coins varied in depth from 6 to 10 inches. It was strange that when I was in disc the detector operated fine, no chatter but when I went to all metal it went stupid. Numbers were jumping with the coil in mid air, even with the sens at 10. Severe EMI but the disc worked as if there wasnt any. Very strange in my opinion. I may call FT and see what they think of that.

Today i am taking both out to a park that gives up nice coins at decent depths and see what they can do side by side. I will report back tomorrow if I get any kind of interesting result. TMAN...

Test-gardens can really build confidence. Real-World hunting performance is irrefutable. Let us know how your head-to-head comparison testing goes. Seek to find a trend..... a pattern.

I did a test last night at our park and unfortunately the results were disapointing. I used the Etrac to mark targets. When I turned on the F75 I was going to use the external speaker to first test the target but the damn speaker wouldnt work. I used the head phones and they worked ok. The shallow targets were easy, both units did ok in ID and depth up to about 5 inches. I found one signal that on the etrac would null but on a few passes gave a high tone and 11/39 on the screen. The 75 gave iron with a few high clipped, scratchy tones. Dug it and it was a piece of wire with a loop on the end at 6 inches. I wasnt suprised by the result. I hit another target with the 75 that was very scratchy, pops, and clipped tones. I dug it and it was a wheat penny at almost 7 inches. I moved over to another area and got a nice tone with the etrac with the numbers on fe bouncing from 1 to 12 but mostly on 12 and the cond. number was stuck on 48. I pulled the 75 over and the external speaker was working again. The tone was still scratchy and the numbers bounced from the 60s to the 80s, like a bottle cap would. I dug it and at 7 inches laying flat was a 1942D Standing Liberty half dollar. It was a bitter sweet find. I was happy to find my first half but would have probably passed over it with how the 75 tried to ID it by sound and screen. I will have to call FT again today and get a ticket number to send it back. If the machine cant target a half dollar at 7 inches laying flat and wont wont air test a dime at more than 6 inches then it aint working right. If they dont agree then I guess I know what the next machine is for me. TMAN...

You should acquire a dime at nearly a foot (in an air-test) with the F-75.
--- In the ground..... mineralization can change the entire equation. Most always..... a loss in depth AND lessor ID accuracy.

I was told my machine was shipping back to me last Thursday. I hadn't seen it as of today and called them.... they shipped it today

WTH is wrong with these guys? $1000 is a lot of money for me and they acted like I should expect to send it in one month after purchase, and I should accept a weeks shipping delay on the way back.

TMANs problems are repeated on other forums. It's been insinuated they are "tuning" these systems down. Anyone else seen that?

Thats what I told FT today when I spoke to them. They said to send it in and gave me a fedex ticket so off it goes tomorrow. On a side note, I understand the depth and minerilization issue along with skewed numbers thanks alot to this site and input from you Tom and others but you should still get a clean tone wheather its a high mid tone or high tone on targets for the most part and not broken, scratchy and popping. TMAN...

Hmmmmm,,,,,, Don't tell me there are QC and 'consistency' issues with the F-75's! I'd like to think that..... by virtue of being a digitized platform, they would be very consistent....,,,,,,,...... from one unit to another.

Heheh, I dont know what is going on with this machine but I know it aint right. lol. You read stories from folks that say it is the greatest thing since sliced bread and others cuss it for all its worth. I believe if the problems on my machine are solved, I will be singing its praise but for now the jury is out. If it comes back and i dont care for the way it works well, I have a Cz3d to take me to the end of hunting season up here and will see what happens next spring. I am hoping for the best because when it worked it worked REAL well. TMAN...

I got my F75 back from Fisher on Friday. They replaced the coil. NOTHING changed. I've sent an email to my dealer and he's going to forward to Mike Scott. I will wait on his response before I elaborate. I have a ton to write, but burning a $1000 bridge isn't in my best interest at this point.

Right now, it looks like I wasted $1000 on a noise maker and LCD kaleidoscope.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2008 02:14AM by Shambler.

First 10 seconds of video is after a factory reset and GB over clean ground. Just changing discrim or notch causes this behavior. Any ideas would be helpful.

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2008 05:59PM by Shambler.

but will do so just the same.
What I saw in your video was a classic example of trying run in enhanced mode....when you in an area where you just cant.
Enhanced mode = JE mode..............OR a disc setting of below 6 or above 20....and that includes anything "notched" in that range.
If I were experiencing that......I'd probably try changing the freq to see if that had any effect....and if that didnt work...then for YOUR specific area your limited to one of the other processes and disc settings between 6 and 20. The good news is...performance is still very very good in DE. I hunt here a LOT with the 75 in JE mode..............99 on the sens.....and "0" disc........BUT..... BUT ...........I still encounter sites/areas where its DE only.
I know this ISNT what you want to hear...but all I can say it thats the way it is. I dont think there is anything wrong with you machine....and your only experiencing the exact same thing everyone else is. (Including myself). Just for the heck of it....take the machine out for a few hours...and leave it in DE mode with the disc setting at default. DONT notch anything...as if you do it wont go back to "0" notch without a reset..and if you have your disc set at anything above iron.......it will still be accepting iron. its a minor glitch in the software that cant be corrected, but as long as you know about it....it can be dealt with.
The very best advice I can give you is this:
Spend some time in the field with it....and try not to analyze so much. I took me at LEAST two months to fully appreciate the machine...and truly become familiar and comfortable with it. (And I've been doing this over 30 years.....with countless machines). I STILL learn things about it....and always welcome input and tips from all the guys "out there". You need to "train your brain"....and that takes an appreciable amount of time. I guarantee you that if you invest the time......the rewards will be big. Simply put........I use the tools that produce best for me (put the most in my pouch)...................and the F75 is a tool that has done just that. Having said THAT though.................its possible the F75 just isnt for you. I have found that the key to sucess is having and using a machine that you have confidance in..and its obvious that you dont have much confidance in the F75. I hope you will respond positively to my post....instead of thet way you have in the past. Things are the way they are..........and neither you OR I can change them. Best we can do is adapt. I LIKE the F75..and until they release another machine with its capabilities... but none of its shortcomings.....I'll continue to use it.....
BTW...have you considered an F70?? LOTS of the same features/feel of the F75 (with the optional 11" F75 coil)...........but without as many interference issues. Respectfully, Streak!

that's odd, Mike Scott, NWI, a tech from FT, and a few other F75 users have seen the video and all tell me there's a definite problem....

No one should accept a $1000 noise maker. It's NOT ok to say the highest priced car is so fast that it overheats every 30 minutes and you have to turn it off. AND remember, like I said before, what you see in the video is INEVITABLE after 30-45 minutes (used to be 2 hours...it's gotten worse) of use at default settings. Twice an hour you have to do a factory reset. I certainly don't mind hunting wide open - I'm doing it with my EXII with success. Geez, my 11 year old son's Garrett Ace 250 outperforms the 75 on the SAME targets.

Heck,maybe you should have yours checked too.

Oh yeah...the "new" coil they sent me won't detect a dime beyond an inch and that's with gain at 90. Their QA/QC is HORRIBLE. It's no secret why these things are going for $500 now on ebay. Wait until a few people buy them used and THEN also resell them.

Defend them all you want brother, I'll put my money elsewhere. I'm chalking it up to me naively believing the hype in a strange hobby. I'm off for a 3-day vacation with my EXII because its so much simpler to use <insert eye rolling emoticon here>



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2008 05:14PM by Shambler.

thats why no one else responded to your post but me. You mentioned NOTHING about it only being able to detect a dime at an inch, only that it didnt act right to you....and the Vid. Next time you dont really want an answer........dont bother to ask!! All I saw in the vid was you going to JE....or jacking up the disc....and then seeing it act like it had RF interference then.
I'm starting to think you actually enjoy having problems. Like I said before.......I'm sorry you have problems..................but think at this point you should consider another machine....because I think you will ALWAYS have problems with it. I really wish you were closer so someone could look at it first hand. I'd gladly drive a couple of hours to try to help you out with it...(and bring a couple of good coils and working machines)...just to show you that they arent ALL junk as you insinuate. Sorry I wasted my time replying to you. I've got the feeling that no matter WHAT I posted.............you'd likely have a problem with it. Your on you own buddy. Good luck!!! Streak!

and it clearly shows the problem starting when you either go over 20 in disc......................or choose JE mode... The first half of it you were over 20 on the disc...and then as soon as you put it back to 10 (the disc).....you put it in JE (and left it in JE) and it started again.
Jou can also hear lot happenning in the background (Cars...planes and other stuff).
Are you close to an airport??? Close to or in a metropolitan area??

I know you will NEVER listen to anything I suggest......but for the sake of argument....I going to tell you anyway. BUT....I'll do it (unlike you)...politely.
It really looks like you have some pretty severe RFI issues. There can be are are likely a couple of reasons for it. First thing I'd do is make 100% sure your coil wire connector is tight...as it can cause a whole host of problems if it isnt.
Next.......make 100% sure you have high quality alkalines in the machine....and even go as far as to try a different set...even if your fairly certain the ones you have are good. I've had a couple of batteries that caused problems (as have a few others on this forum).
Once your sure your batts are good....and you coil wire is 100%................then you can look at a few other things.
Do a factory reset....and put the machine in 2F tones..................but leave everything else at the default settings. multiple tones can cause the odd false highs....and it can be distracting when your trying to evaluate something. 2F is nice and stable...and is a good tone mode for troubleshooting.
Now.....once you have done these things..... (dont Gb yet)........................do a little air test on a US nickle. how far can you get it?? an inch?? a Foot. If your RFI interference isnt too bad.....you should get at least a foot on the nickle. if you DO have severe RFI............it WILL affect the air test. Make SURE your not close to any metal....or are wearing a watch or anything.
If you did the air test...and it seemed ok................THEN do a good Gb..........and swing it for a bit. Is it stable now?? Does it stay stable at these settings? If it DOES...........THEN try moving the disc to a setting above 20 or below 6. Does it go nuts THEN? If so.............put it back to 10 (disc) and see if it stablilizes. If so.......then put it in JE mode and see if it goes nuts again. If so.......put it back in DE and see if it stabilizes again. In your Vid for the brief time you had returned it to 10..............and before you put it in JE....it looked ok. it only seems to resume its chattering AFTER you put it in JE. IF it works ok in DE mode......with a disc setting in the non enhanced mode range (6 to 20) ......and only goes nuts when you choose Je or crank the disc up....then its RFI....and not necessarily a problem with the machine. IF it still acts bad in DE mode...............or when you have your disc set to between 6 and 20.........then you may indeed have a problem.
Like I said in my origonal post to you...............it may be just RFI....and thats a problem that cant be rectified by any other means other than going to a different place............or simply selling the machine and trying another.
IF though.........................you cant detect a dime at and inch...then its obvious you have other problems, and there is a high probability that your coil is bad. Still.....I'd remove your coil wire FIRST..........reseat it fully.... and check to see that the lock ring it tight before I'd condemn the coil. Not everything is cut an dried when it comes to evaluating your problem.....and if you havent explored every possibility you can at home.......BEFORE sending it in....... it may be just another wasted trip.
There...................I know (again) none of this is what you want to hear.....but at least I know I've done what I could to possibly help you, despite your refusal of said help. Believe it or not.....I'd really like to see you get this fixed/rectified. I know its no fun having problems with ANY machine..........and can appreciate why you feel as you do. STILL......just ignoring folks that are trying honestly to help you (or belittling them) seems counterproductive to me. Streak!

Let's get something straight: I want this machine to work and have worked with it many, many hours. I do NOT want to send it back especially during this time of year. The video was to show an amazing level of instability. Choosing to "NOT REPORT" part of the spectrum should never create that much instability -- nothing changes with reception.. only that you're not being notified. You've been fed a line of malarkey with the "enhanced mode" in relation to discrimination.

The coil in the video is the second coil. My comment about the third coils was to make a point about terrible bench testing and QC. There is nothing impolite about my last post. It only says not everyone agrees with you AND the most important thing -- your defense of a malfunctioning machine isn't fair to others in the hobby.

This system is marketed as having full discrimination, notch, and four tones. Getting anything less than that should make everyone that has one a little dissapointed.

You might have heard my hunting dogs about 100 yards away but you certainly didn't hear airplanes or cars. This is where I live... google it and take a look at the satelite view 39.666376,-85.819391.

I install and service X-Ray equipment and that puts me on the road a lot. I've tried this detector from Battle Creek MI to Richmond, KY to Cleveland. Oh mostly in the rural areas surronding small county hospitals. Any insinuation other than that is ridculous. I have no reason to not want it to work.

Hopefully they'll be repairing this machine this time around, and if it's acting normally, as you say, then they can take their DIRT and RFI detector back.



Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2008 04:46AM by Shambler.

the "enhanced mode" isnt a matter of contention. Its a matter of fact, and has been well known since the F75's inception.
you seem to be a technical kind of guy.........but for some reason choose to ignore the facts. You CANT compare modern digital devices to older analog machines. Sooooooooooo much more is possible with microprocessor control, and the ability to program a machine.....and I'm sure there is a lot MORE going on the the background that neither one of us will ever understand. Funny thing is though...........even with analog machines.........Disc settings affect performance BIG time!! it's NOT a simple matter of a target responding or NOT responding as you said.
I KNOW the F75 enters an enhance mode when you choose certain Disc parameters......because I can demonstrate it myself HERE.....on targets.....in the real world........just as you did in your video.(there are a few other "behind the scenes" tricks the F75, F70, AND F5 do when you choose certain options as well, but they are largely proprietary....so you wont get any info here.) You can call it fiction....but it wont change the facts.
As I said before.....I sincerely hope you get the problem rectified.......but I dont see how thats possible unless you try to get to the core of the problem. If you genuinely hate the machine.....then sell it and move on. You do the rest of us a disservice by constantly badmouthing it. You can call me a "Shill', biased, or "full of malarky" all you want.....but I for one really like the machine.....DESPITE any percieved shortcomings and/or limitations. Virtually EVERY machine I've ever used was lacking in some way or another....and if anyone EVER makes the perfect machine....they will make millions!!! I like the machine primarily for its incredible separation, and very very good depth............which both serve me well in the type of hunting I do. Being primarily a colonial relic hunter.....................discrimination is a hindrance...and you dont even want to know how if feel about notch. (complete waste of hardware). Doing side by side tests with a pretty big array of machines......I've yet to find one that even comes close to doing what the F75 does so well for me. BUT...........thats My style of hunting.....and doesnt necessarily apply to whatever kind of hunting YOU do...............so its a moot point I guess. The F75 is nothing more than a tool. its kind of like me having a big pipe wrench. If I were a pipe fitter....that would be dandy.............BUT if YOU were a brick layer and had the same tool...it wouldnt do ya much good!!
This will be my last reply to you....as its just a waste of my time. Thats too bad.............as like I said.......I really WOULD like to see you get the problem solved............as it may well be valuable info to someone else with a similar problem to see what the resolution might be.................
The ONLY way you will do it is with a logical............ordered...........linear diagnostic mindset. The squeaky wheel MAY get the grease.......but the "grease" is more likely to be peanut butter than Axle Grease.......... Streak!

Fisher could make some argument that notching or discrimination makes the system need to "work" harder making it less stable. They could also make the argument that in order to make discrimination or notch work they have to increase sensitivity as to get a better return on the objects. However, this would mean this part of the manual - "Discrimination incurs some loss of sensitivity to small or deep objects." would be incorrect.

So if your circuit attempts to look at too narrow of a signal, the "noise" of the part you're ignoring could cause instability. BUT, this is something you create isolation circuits for... Would these extra circuits (and potentially whole boards) make the machine too bulky and heavy? Who knows. AND!! who cares.. they've marketed it as having the ability to do these things and largely fell short.

Your posts would've been helpful if I hadn't been through all of it ad nauseum. AND then when I said that, you insinuated I was too stupid or too stubborn to properly troubleshoot it. You just happened to reply to the post after several others had been in touch by phone and email. They all said something was wrong.

Like I've said before, the difference between very sensitive and very unstable is too close with this device IF IF IF what you are saying is actually how it should behave. I'm not bad mouthing the Fisher F75. I DID bad mouth thier QC/QA process- because frankly it sucks (and turn around for me was over two weeks making the detector gone for 32 days).

I'm telling you mine is not doing what FT told me it would do. You're saying it's acting normally, and the instability experienced is to be expected. I wonder if that approach is what's causing them to have such a low resale value. It's possible people are seeing the hype is incorrect. It's also possible that people don't want to be told they have to wear an aluminum hat and hold their arms up to make the machine stable. It's also possible we'll never hear from most of the upset buyers becuase they don't want to be subjected to the ridiculous notion that they are too stupid to operate it. In MY circle of influence I don't know ONE person that couldn't work this device.

DISCLAIMER: NOTHING in this email is intended to be or should be contrued as insensitive, disrespectful, or inflammatory.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2008 04:38PM by Shambler.