Is a beep just a beep or:

Heck I admit my hearing is not the best but would imagine as good as the average guy in his seventies but even after being laughed off some of the forums I still contend a beep is not a beep and audio variances are there to help us to dig or not.
Either some of us take the time to test objects and train our hearing, some just hear tones and variances better or perhaps some of the forum members like to keep trade secrets to their selves relative the beep differences or perhaps we have just gotten lazy with all the bells and whistles...in any case they are there and of course vary from unit to unit so be my guest and become a better detectorist by having an edge or just smirk and say this guy is not playing with a full deck.
Years ago meters were not around and many of the oldtimers knew what they had before they dug so that must tell the average guy something. Any input post on the forum so we all can learn and no personal E-mails please as they
are useless to the forum whether it be pro or con upon my observations...

Most of my experience is with the older analogue machines. After a time with my White's 6000 for example, it was pretty easy to pick out a coin just from the tone. Smoother, sweeter than tabs, caps etc... (Nails were easy!) I could ID things with my eyes closed! (Not 100% of the time of course) When I "Graduated" to the XLT and now the F75 LTD - I seem to have lost that ability OR I AM relying on those bells and whistles too much. Are these "New fangled" machines as "Capable" in this department? Honestly I don't know! Seems I've yet to see a machine "Lock in" with it's metered ID like my old 6000 did. Penny was a Penny, even at depth! Now a penny could read 'bout 2 dozen different TID #'s - You bet I want to crack the tone code of these new machines! I know this was probably not helpful. I guess I was just agreeing with you... HH

Been swingin' a White's since the 70's - 5 machines, Currently an XLT & Fisher F75 LE - 50,000 finds, 30,000 (or so) keepers. Published in the White's catalog. Always looking for good/decent hunting buds! Get in touch!

Simply are we going backwards...heck ask any oldtimer.....older units just had more distinct audio variances and sonewhere between the bells and whistles they dimmed.....

This is why hunting in 'monotone' is an art.

I have the digital version of the White's 6000 Di Pro, the Silver Eagle. That monotone beast will walk circles around my Teknetics T2 when it comes to monotone target ID. Just like you described your 6000 as doing. 19 yr's I have had the beast. It's only the weight which steered me to a lighter detector. The old machine has a much higher 'fun' factor than the T2. And Tom is right.......monotone is a 'art'............enjoyable 'art' when you have the right machine. I am finding that multi-tone hunting, for coins, is not as effective/efficent as a good well designed monotone machine. My 2 cents worth. Like I said in another post, that thing can detect a freshly buried copper penny at 8" in Jewelry mode, in tough Idaho mineralized soil with ease, both audible and TID. And I can run sensitivity higher than the T2 without the detector freaking out. Actually its depth capability matches the T2, only alot more stable in audio/TID functions. The T2 is at First Texas getting examined........so maybe things will improve with the T2 if they find any discrepancies with it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2011 07:48PM by TerraDigger.

I use CZ's & almost never look at the meter. I have poor hearing & am happier with better headphones, I just got. Koss QZ-99

Digital vs analog.....

The analogs have a voice all their own once you spend some time with them. The front of the tone might crackle or the back might screech a little and you could tell the good from the bad. The digitals just can't compare. Ever used an Xterra? Now there's a unit where a beep is a beep. Worst audio of them all.

HH
Mike

If it went over your head with Toms remark about monotone I learned a longtime ago one single tone is easier to spot audio variances...and master than multitones....Point in question in 92 my partner and I had an XLT and i loved the almost 200 frequency variations while he used the single tone..Heck he went deeper and basically beat the pants off of me..Finally sunk in after we had a talk having supper after the hunt and was able to hold my own with him even though I missed all those almost 200 frequency tone variations so indeed bells and whistles have their plus and minus aspects....

Tom hit the nail on the head. I use the F70 and almost always use 2F and even though its a digital machine it speaks a language almost as pure as my old 1265X. I pass on numerous targets even though they ID as something good and I dig some really good deep old silver that ID's as foil. I am working at graduating up to the 1F setting. I don't know how anyone can use the three or four tone audio.

Ever notice that in addition to how monotone analog units sound, that certain headphones on one will make the monotone sound much clearer or easier to dissect, than other headphones ?

I have a pair of Troy headphones that I use exclusively on my Baron Coin Trax II because for some reason, good targets sound crisper and trash has a certain beginning and end in the tone that coins don't vs other top line headphones. The ending of the tone on a coin is very sharp and quick.

Maybe it's just me, but Troys work best on that unit, while Black Widows sound the best on my CZ's. The high tone 'ping' of a silver coin in them on my CZ is sweet ! Grey Ghosts don't sound good at all on my CZ's compared to the Black Widows, but they sound good on my Tesoro Vaquero.

Go figure.

This is a great thread. Seems that the Whites 6000 just won't go away. Seems there always some one commenting as to what a good detector
it is.

To Mike hillis
What's your impression of the audio on the minelab Sovereign Gt.

Turtleman

Whites 6000 was sure a classic had a clubmember get his old hipmount version of the Di stolen and could never replace the audio he learned quite well...To this day he always said that elusive gold ring was just different from the pulltab that registered the same on the meter and had some nice found ones to prove it. Honestly although owned and used a lot of Whites units over the years never owned this series so can't comment as I went thru the Eagle series right up to the XLT...

Turtleman,
I've always looked at the Sovereign as a retired persons detector because 1) its slow, and 2) you have to live with it for a while to get the audio down. It has been a couple of years since I owned one, but I found the Sovereign ito be an interesting detector. I liked being able to sit on a target and get a nearly constant audio response on the target with the "sovereign wiggle", electrically charge it and bring it up to a peak response. I had trouble hearing the differences in target ranges and had to rely on a meter. Especially for the high conductor range and the very low end of the low conductor range. And the low conductor range is very large on the Sovereign.

Compare that to a Tesoro Golden Sabre II, where I found it easy to tell the difference between foil paper and foil pie plate by the audio fuzziness, or a Bounty Hunter Tracker IV, where it was easy to tell the difference between zinc cents and steel bottle caps by the screech at the end of the audio.

HH
Mike

You hit the nail on the head regarding the Tesoro Golden Sabre. My White's Silver Eagle also produces that ever so slight, yet noticeable 'fuzziness' on most iron and most lightweight aluminum (tabs, foil wrappers, bits of foil etc.... heavy aluminum (cans, rods, etc...), not so. The Tek T2 just doesn't have that 'fuzziness' audio distinction. Wish it did. I owned the 6000 Di Series 2 hipmount for years. Still my all-time favorite.
Even though my Silver Eagle is considered digital (actually it's analog/digital hybrid) it still behaves like a analog 6000 Di series.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2011 05:12AM by TerraDigger.

the newer digital designs lack nuance the older analog came by " NATURALLY"

I hope as the designs progress they will become more evolved in the audio....

The At-Pro offers some great audio for hunt by ear while using dual tone's.....

If Garret can offer such features they must be using some kind of audio amp/chip that is doing the magic......since there other designs like the ace's seems to be flat sounding either they targeted a better audio as a selling point or the circuit works well because of advancements in digital components.....I would think it's the later...

it's not on par with say a 5900 or my favorite tonal reverberator the nautilus...........(((((( talk about some feedback echo's at the edge's of a signal.)))))....


so maybe all is not lost and as more complex chips become cheaper they will become the norm for newer detector's........I would almost bet the audio qualities of old were not designed to be so ....it was just the way it turned out with what was available in the amplification .....

good post...


Keith

When you have time, maybe you could give us a little tutorial on why these older analog's had the nice audio qualities the new machines lack. And could these audio qualities be incorporated into the new digital units?
In my fantasy, mfg's would use Yamaha sound chips.

Fairly simple................today more filters are incorporated. Yesteryear.......the audio was more 'raw'.....and ..... in time..... could be learned by the human ear.

Turtleman mentioned in this thread how the 6000 series doesn't want to go away.
I never got around to try the older but have heard their nuance was better than
the newer, like the Pro SL or XL-Pro.

Then the finds started getting tougher in more recent times and most turned
to the higher operating frq and faster recovery and response...and higher gain.
Yet Whites of old will definitely be missed by us who used them and
enjoyed stable audio and meter.
Not only that they didn't false as much on iron, at least that is my take.
They also had a fairly nice modulation to them.

With which brings to mind thoughts about one of the best at modulation
and sweep speed tolerance--the Minelab Advantage but it doesn't have
quite the smooth rejection of the Whites and it doesn't have a meter.

With the older Whites, one needs a faster sweep speed for depth.
So if I could have a 6000 with a new design DD with a 2 filter setting for
Trashy areas, that would be great.
With each new model that comes out, we find things we like and things
we don't.....it would help to have engineers that actually used the machines
they put out, that way they might understand it from a user's viewpoint.

I for one always judge every detector by the older Whites (6000,5900) as
how they ID and how well behaved the audio response is.
I think we have lost as much as we have gained in the new designs.
The emphasis now is separation, unmasking which means
the old 4 filter is "one for the books".
Hmm...might get another one... one of these days.

For single/solo targets that are not too deep......I prefer an older analog unit.

For trashy sites...........especially laced with iron/nails.........the newer technology elliptical DD units coupled w/fast microprocessor clock-speed ..... is mandatory. This type of technology .............. for the first time in history............... has been the only technology that can (somewhat) combat the trash...and can (somewhat) produce success; subsequently......opening sites that have previously been completely closed by yesteryears bull-in-a-china-shop.....concentric coil.......too slow to recover between targets....old-generation units. The '''highest volume of finds.....in the smallest amount of area'''.........(where the most human habitation has taken place).........,,,,,,,,,,, is the areas that we are most interested in...........and.....as of lately......are the areas that I hunt the most........and VERY deliberately.

Unmasking is paramount.
Depth is paramount.

Intelligence = success.

The more you learn............the higher your success. (......and the more stunning life will become). Knowledge is happiness! ((( and knowledge is power...........and....knowledge is wealth ))).

Dan, I never believed that people could tell what they had in the ground before they dig it, maybe, you know it iron to non ferrous , but in over 10 years of hunting, I never new if I had silver or a quarter, I always wished it was silver , but it was mostly a quarter and when silver popped out, I was always surprised, I've been fooled many of times, digging deep stuff , thinking it was iron and popping out a nice old copper, but I have never heard well over the years, according to my wife