Mindlab Equinox Iron Bias Update Confusion

This Fe and F2 iron bias thing is going to get really confusing fast, like what do you mean when you say 'F6' setting? How about using Fe-6 or F2-6 instead.

tabman

I didn’t update mine, I don’t use the FE for anything now, it’s at 0. All it does for me if it’s set at anything other than 0 is cause confusion as to if something is falsing or not. If you’re hunting odd shaped non-ferrous objects then maybe it’s useful, but it just confuses things for me. The EQX works great with raw “non screwed with” audio for coin hunting in my area.

IDXMonster Wrote:
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> I didn’t update mine, I don’t use the FE for anyth
> ing now, it’s at 0. All it does for me if it’s set
> at anything other than 0 is cause confusion as to
> if something is falsing or not. If you’re hunting
> odd shaped non-ferrous objects then maybe it’s use
> ful, but it just confuses things for me. The EQX w
> orks great with raw “non screwed with” audio for c
> oin hunting in my area.


Huh? Minelab's FBS, FBS2 and now M-IQ all separate the return signal into its conductive phase and iron phase. With FBS, you could see where the TDI was in relation to its FE value and you could change the FE acceptance threshold as high or low as you wanted. This is the same thing. The iron-bias is just you telling the detector how high up you want to place that threshold.

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You can see my videos here: [www.youtube.com]
My blog is here: [thesilverfiend.com]

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Jason, you appear to be incredulous at the fact my IB is at zero with the EQX. That’s where it’s at, works great! Is it going to work “great” for everyone everywhere? I dunno, I’m not there. But it sure does here!

IDXMonster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jason, you appear to be incredulous at the fact my
> IB is at zero with the EQX. That’s where it’s at,
> works great! Is it going to work “great” for every
> one everywhere? I dunno, I’m not there. But it sur
> e does here!


Incredulous? I'm not sure that means what you think it does, at least in the way you used it there. I said nothing about how you used it. You said "all it does is cause confusion" which sounds as if you didnt understand the idea behind it or it implementation. If I misread your statement, so be it.

As for the F2 update, I believe Tom here said it was a large improvement and that you should switch to and not switch back. I did just that and I've been very happy.

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You can see my videos here: [www.youtube.com]
My blog is here: [thesilverfiend.com]

======================================================

Please correct me if I'm wrong. The way I see it, F2 simply has a wider range than FE, which means that F2 goes a little lower and a little higher than FE could. There is really no logical reason to stay with FE.

Bottle caps and flat iron are not a problem where I hunt. I've always run my Iron Bias at 0 with both versions and haven't had any complaints.

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2019 06:39AM by Badger in NH.

Why is it confusing? You use one or the other, one is a more granular scale, one is less granular. It's like having the option of a three speed stick shift or a six speed stick shift. It's that simple.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
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> Why is it confusing? You use one or the other, one
> is a more granular scale, one is less granular. It
> 's like having the option of a three speed stick s
> hift or a six speed stick shift. It's that simpl
> e.

Apparently not. When someone writes that they use so and so iron bias setting, you don't know if that iron bias number is for Fe or F2 or if it's for a Nox 600 or 800.

tabman

tabman's concern is not so much about..... If the new software is good/not-good; but/rather...……. what folks are calling it. I would have to agree...…………. as some folks are just simply stating: "my setting of F0 produces such-and-such results". We (the reader) are uncertain if they are talking about FE '0' or F2 '0'...………… and/or if they are using a EQX600 or EQX800......of which uses different parameters between these two units. Any one of these variables (by not stating clearly) can present a completely different meaning.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tabman's concern is not so much about..... If the
> new software is good/not-good; but/rather...……. wh
> at folks are calling it. I would have to agree...…
> ………. as some folks are just simply stating: "my se
> tting of F0 produces such-and-such results". We (t
> he reader) are uncertain if they are talking about
> FE '0' or F2 '0'...………… and/or if they are using a
> EQX600 or EQX800......of which uses different para
> meters between these two units. Any one of these v
> ariables (by not stating clearly) can present a co
> mpletely different meaning.


Ah, yes. That is/will be confusing because not everyone has the update or uses the update, or the post might be from before the update came out.

======================================================

You can see my videos here: [www.youtube.com]
My blog is here: [thesilverfiend.com]

======================================================

silverfiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IDXMonster Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I didn’t update mine, I don’t use the FE for any
> th
> > ing now, it’s at 0. All it does for me if it’s s
> et
> > at anything other than 0 is cause confusion as t
> o
> > if something is falsing or not. If you’re huntin
> g
> > odd shaped non-ferrous objects then maybe it’s u
> se
> > ful, but it just confuses things for me. The EQX
> w
> > orks great with raw “non screwed with” audio for
> c
> > oin hunting in my area.
>
>
> Huh? Minelab's FBS, FBS2 and now M-IQ all separat
> e the return signal into its conductive phase and
> iron phase. With FBS, you could see where the TDI
> was in relation to its FE value and you could chan
> ge the FE acceptance threshold as high or low as y
> ou wanted. This is the same thing. The iron-bias
> is just you telling the detector how high up you w
> ant to place that threshold.

With this statement you are saying that with a CTX you can adjust your FE line up or down(normal being around 25-27...). Correct? And then with an Equinox 800, adjusting the IB up or down is like adjusting the FE line up or down, such as when running Combined, the lower bin can be adjusted in this way, correct? If I was running the Equinox 800 with the original offering of “FE” at “0”, what do you suppose will happen? Assume I am running multi frequency.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2019 01:09AM by IDXMonster.

IDXMonster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> With this statement you are saying that with a CTX
> you can adjust your FE line up or down(normal bein
> g around 25-27...). Correct? And then with an Equi
> nox 800, adjusting the IB up or down is like adjus
> ting the FE line up or down, such as when running
> Combined, the lower bin can be adjusted in this wa
> y, correct? If I was running the Equinox 800 with
> the original offering of “FE” at “0”, what do you
> suppose will happen? Assume I am running multi fre
> quency.


Youre asking me where I think the EQX iron threshold level is compared to the CTX? Thats an impossible question to answer. Considering that the F2 allows a negative number, we can surmise that the original "0" is not the same as "35" on the FBS2 FE scale.

Actually it would be a number fairly higher on the scale (lower number). Because a zero IB means that you are allowing a lot more iron to to be read as good. A Maximum IB number would be like pushing that FBS2 FE line lower to keep more iron out.

======================================================

You can see my videos here: [www.youtube.com]
My blog is here: [thesilverfiend.com]

======================================================



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2019 02:09AM by silverfiend.

My question would be why did minelab keep fe 1 when fe 2 has the same settings as fe 1 but is expanded on the low end and high end what's the need for iron bias 1 or fe 1 , sube

Good question. My thought is that the F2 analyzes the iron component completely differently, so they left the old original version as well.

======================================================

You can see my videos here: [www.youtube.com]
My blog is here: [thesilverfiend.com]

======================================================

What I tried awhile ago(because I wanted to see if IB was closely akin to setting the FE line on FBS) was to set the 800 on my bed with the stock coil and it was stable at a Sensitivity of 18 and an IB of “0”. I started waving every kind of rusty square nail of all sizes across the coil in the direction I would normally be sweeping. I held them the long way, short way, on end...I did this for probably 2-3 minutes and in that time I got perhaps one or two TINY squeaks that I’d never interpret as even a piece of a coin. This led me to believe that because this was certainly acceptable behavior to me that I could possibly see coins next to nails better by letting the machine be as “open” as it could be. By using Recovery 7 almost all of the time(looking deep in these places is almost an exercise in futility) and listening for high tones or at least pieces of high tones that appear to come from the exact same spot on the ground, these terrible sites can be made to produce. The one thing that will get me absolutely NOWHERE is running my Sensitivity too high for the number of nails in the ground. Having the machine add what is effectively more discrimination doesn’t seem to help in sorting these targets out...it basically says “to hell with all that” and you assume that a particular indication is ALL bad when many times that’s not the case. A TINY piece of a good signal can come through with an IB setting of 4-5 and there is something about it that I like, but the TID is all negative, so I walk away. I’ve tried running IB as low as 2 with those “maybe, maybe not” audio indications and negative TID. When I went to IB “0” the coin count went up, as well as a few more junkers, but an acceptable ratio. Positive numbers in the coin range started popping up more regularly, although sporadically in the midst of a bunch of negative numbers. The biggest thing was being able to hear ALL of the coin signal that it was going to give me, as miserable as it might be. To me, a more complete and honest audio works better most of the time than employing IB and having the signal “re-worked”. I’ve listened to these “signal pieces” for 9 years, so it becomes second nature to go after these things in order to hunt what is left around here. The 800 has been VERY useful for this and will get better as I figure out what works.

sube Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My question would be why did minelab keep fe 1 whe
> n fe 2 has the same settings as fe 1 but is expand
> ed on the low end and high end what's the need for
> iron bias 1 or fe 1 , sube

Maybe they left fe1 there because people were used to it and and would have had fits if they could not use it .I only run fe2 at 0 i do dig some nails but looking at what i am digging in nails galore i think i dig very few nails the machines audio is very good in getting rid of most nails .

As to sensitivity i run full bore 6 inch coil 25 always those pieces of high tones you talk about are easier to hear than running low sensitivity now the stock coil i could never run full bore it just takes in to much soil volume wise which makes it to noisy to hear that piece of high tone .
You will get better depth in a sea of nails using the 6 inch coil less nails and dirt under the coil at one time and the 6 can be ran at full bore. sube



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2019 05:03AM by sube.

M-IQ = Processes iron a bit differently than BBS/FBS.

We kept FE...….. simply because there will be plenty of folks that want to (for whatever reasons) switch back to "old familiar" and/or "warm fuzzies".

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> M-IQ = Processes iron a bit differently than BBS/F
> BS.
>
> We kept FE...….. simply because there will be plen
> ty of folks that want to (for whatever reasons) sw
> itch back to "old familiar" and/or "warm fuzzies".


Your first line is what led me to immediately believe that this was the case...if it were processing like FBS and simply only reporting what would effectively be the CO side of a FECO graph, the nails would’ve lit up immediately. Obviously they didn’t. I’d like to know more about how it comes to the TID conclusion while skipping the whole “nail sounds great” nonsense but I have a feeling that’s not available for my reading...or I missed it altogether. No matter, the fairground coughed a Barber-Merc-Rosie trifecta today so it’s working great.
Now to develop that “cinder see-through” update! What a PITA those are...

IDX...…. correct. I cannot infringe upon corporate intellectual property; yet, I can confirm that M-IQ iron handling technology is indeed a bit different. . . . . . especially since the EQX is capable of going well below previous ML products 'iron-processing/iron-handling' settings.
And now...… with the second EQX software update...…. we're even going into the 'negative'.