Question for Safari users...

I had the Safari for a few years and it was one of the greatest detectors I've ever owned. One of the tricks I learned to find ultra-deep targets with it was to listen for the "burp" or "dunk" sounds. Along with this sound, you would get a somewhat jumpy VDI reading. If that jumpy reading was mostly *and this is key* mid 20s to lower 30s, it was usually an old coin. The lower VDIs were due to the extreme depth. Now for the question...

Been swinging the Etrac for a few years and I love it too, but in different ways than the Safari. Yes, it's faster so it separates better, and finds more goodies in trashy areas, however...

I don't get those "dunk" noises anymore for some reason like on the Safari. And I normally run my Etrac hot, in manual with a high sensitivity of around 28. To be clear, my issue isn't that my settings are bad, or that I'm not finding anything. I do very well with the machine. But...

I just don't understand why those ultra-deep "dunks" have disappeared. I used to routinely dig 8-12" targets using this method in good, moist soil, but not with the Etrac. Without a doubt, I used to dig way deeper with the Safari, even though I now find slightly more good finds with the Etrac. But I greatly miss chasing those ultra-deepies, and was wondering if anyone knows why those "dunks" don't happen on the Etrac.

Has anyone else experienced this when going from the Safari to the Etrac?

I have, and for that reason alone I've always preferred the safari over the etrac.Ive owned several etrac and safaris and always came to that very same conclusion, the safari is deeper.
And it's not just me or you..ive seen others say the very same thing.I can actually remember selling a safari a few years back and had a guy want to trade me a basically brand new etrac for it cause he upgraded from safari to etrac and wasnt happy, wanted his safari back.
I think the safari is just set up for optimal performance from the factory and nothing to screw up.But others might have a different opinion on this topic..Good luck with your etrac

Woodbutcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have, and for that reason alone I've always pref
> erred the safari over the etrac.Ive owned several
> etrac and safaris and always came to that very sam
> e conclusion, the safari is deeper.
> And it's not just me or you..ive seen others say t
> he very same thing.I can actually remember selling
> a safari a few years back and had a guy want to tr
> ade me a basically brand new etrac for it cause he
> upgraded from safari to etrac and wasnt happy, wan
> ted his safari back.
> I think the safari is just set up for optimal perf
> ormance from the factory and nothing to screw up.B
> ut others might have a different opinion on this t
> opic..Good luck with your etrac

Guess we're two peas in a pod then, because my experience mirrors yours exactly. And let me be clear...

I'm not knocking on the Etrac at all. Fantastic machine and I'll never get rid of it. Like I said, I find slightly more with it versus the Safari, which I mainly attribute to being better in trashy areas...which is mostly what I hunt.

But in terms of raw depth, as you said, I DEFINITELY got more with the Safari when going after those targets that were just out of range and not able to produce an audio response aside from the "thunk" sound.

I also think, like you, that all of the extra filtering and everything on the Etrac *might* be the reason for that...but I'm not an engineer, so I wouldn't be able to say for sure.

P.S. - Being the Nox is the superstar now, I sincerely hope they don't decide to do away with the Safari. It really is one of the the best coin units ever...especially for the price.

Hey njnydigger...

It's a surprise seeing your post here.

I used to watch your Safari hunt videos and I saw your deep live digs....impressive!!

I also have a Safari but not swinging it since getting the Nox 600 & 800. The reason being is that I developed tendonitis from the Safari due its weight.

The "dunk or thump" sounds you are referring to honestly can't say I've ever heard because we hear so many sounds that are identical to what you've described.

The Safari gives off a beautiful flutey tone unlike anything I've heard. I sure miss using it. Cut my teeth on metal detecting with it and I dug a lot of silver.

Now that my tendonitis has had a couple of years rest, I think I'll take the Safari out and see if I can catch those "dunks or thump" sounds.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

I've said for years that the Safari was an underappreciated machine. I've never tried an etrac and I do think my CTX is better(except on silver- the Safari is a silverhound), but I still have my Safari and will until it dies.

It likely has something to with settings and just not getting over the coins you want. The “thunk” sound is the machine trying to recover back to threshold after seeing just a slight piece of a signal. This is a lot more noticeable in the Auto Sensitivity setting.

Happa54 - Thanks for the kind words, sir, that feels like a long time ago. Loved doing the videos, but they were a lot of work, and really took away from the fun of the hunts, so I had to put it on the shelf for a while.

The Nox's are excellent machines. Tried one and liked it, but it was too far from what I was accustomed to with FBS: FE & CO info, the higher flutey pitched tones, etc. So I stuck with the Etrac. Don't neglect the Safari though. Take the old girl out on a date once in a while lol. Those "old" machines can still find the good stuff.

Champ F. - I agree, the Safari IS a silverhound...pretty good on relics too. I am surprised that you think it beats the CTX on silver though. Not because I doubt the ability of the Safari, but because I've hunted with quite a few guys over the years who've swung CTX's, and it just seemed (to me) that they pulled more shiny easier & more consistently. But I'm okay with you saying that because I really do believe the Safari is one of the best coin machines ever.

Kevin - Not sure if the "thunk" sound I'm referring to has anything to do with the machine recovering back to threshold, but it could be possible. I only ran my Safari in all-metal mode, and when there was an extreme-depth target that wasn't strong enough to illicit an audio response (flutey, mid or low tone), it would basically make that "grunt" or "thunk" noise. The trick was though...

The "thunk" noise had to be repeatable from multiple angles, and if the numbers were mostly fairly high (say lower 20s to lower 30s), it was usually an old coin or relic. If the numbers were too low, or bounced around TOO much, than it was normally iron. Hope this makes sense. Kind of like trying to describe what a toothache feels like to someone online lol.

Found a barber half (my only ever) which gave this precise "thunk" noise. Probably 12 or 13" deep, which I was lucky enough to get on video. Only heard it because I was specifically listening for those deep "thunks", and the ground was perfectly moist. For some reason, I'm not getting these ultra-deep "thunks" on the Etrac. As you said, could be my settings, or could just be that the Safari hits a tad bit deeper. BTW...

Keep those fantastic videos coming

Thanks for the good tip, njnydigger.

As far as I know, all the Explorer series "thunk" on fringe depth targets.

HH
Mike

Mike Hillis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the good tip, njnydigger.
>
> As far as I know, all the Explorer series "thunk"
> on fringe depth targets.
>
> HH
> Mike

Just a weird (but useful) "quirk" I stumbled across on the Safari, Mike. Nothing new though, as I guess it's kinda like the older non-Minelab machines, which would sometimes give an iron tone on a fringe depth target. If that happened and the needle spiked into the positive (or other tells), it was many times a deep coin. But it's interesting as it happens for me (and others) on the Safari, but not the Etrac.

To Me it seemed like the original Ireland made Etracs had that thunk sound. The newer ones I had did not. I would listen for it too and

the tight numbers. It was usually a very deep coin or a semi deep coin on edge. People disagree with me on that subject but the Ireland made Etracs were different to Me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2020 07:26PM by Harold,ILL..

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To Me it seemed like the original Ireland made Etr
> acs had that thunk sound. The newer ones I had did
> not. I would listen for it too and
>
> the tight numbers. It was usually a very deep coin
> or a semi deep coin on edge. People disagree with
> me on that subject but the Ireland made Etracs wer
> e different to Me.

Glad it's not just me, Harold, but others also, as I wasn't sure if I was going nuts, maybe have my settings wrong on the Etrac or what. Like I said, the Etrac runs fine and I do well with it...the only component missing seems to be those ultra-deep fringe "thunkers".

I've heard many guys praise the Ireland made Minelabs over the years. Makes me wonder if they were indeed hotter coming out of the factory.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2020 10:51PM by njnydigger.

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To Me it seemed like the original Ireland made Etr
> acs had that thunk sound. The newer ones I had did
> not. I would listen for it too and
>
> the tight numbers. It was usually a very deep coin
> or a semi deep coin on edge. People disagree with
> me on that subject but the Ireland made Etracs wer
> e different to Me.


Right....good Thread: I'm still lucky to be running one of those "Ireland" E Trac's and it was the Demo machine that was taken around to events, expo's, rallies and its still goin' today.
And YES, it does "Thunk", "Dunk" or any of the other strange sounds it can produce! I wrote an article trying to explain just what the sounds meant.

I was also lucky to have been one of the few folks that prototyped the older "Quattro" Jeez...that was a long period 'cos most of the brains behind it went on Annual Leave almost continuously throughout the project!
However, the testing I did for the duration brought about a "slowish" but deep seeking machine. "Safari" was how it was adressed to "speed it up" a tad!
The LO/HIGH Trash were kept but Default was HI in the Safari whereby Quattro had LO set in. There were a few other 'tweaks' to software and possibly one or two components were changed on the boards.
The audio was straight from "E Trac" and its doubful they 're-mapped' the software for the "Linear" Discrimination? But that's 'how and why' "Safari" can "Dunk" in its audio responses.

If you're not hearing the same on your E Trac', it's due to possibly being in a different Audio profile or, a modified Discrimination pattern that is 'masking' the "Dunk" sounds?

Des D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Harold,ILL. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > To Me it seemed like the original Ireland made E
> tr
> > acs had that thunk sound. The newer ones I had d
> id
> > not. I would listen for it too and
> >
> > the tight numbers. It was usually a very deep co
> in
> > or a semi deep coin on edge. People disagree wit
> h
> > me on that subject but the Ireland made Etracs w
> er
> > e different to Me.
>
>
> Right....good Thread: I'm still lucky to be runnin
> g one of those "Ireland" E Trac's and it was the D
> emo machine that was taken around to events, expo'
> s, rallies and its still goin' today.
> And YES, it does "Thunk", "Dunk" or
> any of the other strange sounds it can produce! I
> wrote an article trying to explain just what the s
> ounds meant.
>
> I was also lucky to have been one of the few folks
> that prototyped the older "Quattro" Jeez...that wa
> s a long period 'cos most of the brains behind it
> went on Annual Leave almost continuously throughou
> t the project!
> However, the testing I did for the duration brough
> t about a "slowish" but deep seeking machine. "Saf
> ari" was how it was adressed to "speed it up" a ta
> d!
> The LO/HIGH Trash were kept but Default was HI in
> the Safari whereby Quattro had LO set in. There we
> re a few other 'tweaks' to software and possibly o
> ne or two components were changed on the boards.
> The audio was straight from "E Trac" and its doubf
> ul they 're-mapped' the software for the "Linear"
> Discrimination? But that's 'how and why' "Safari"
> can "Dunk" in its audio responses.
>
> If you're not hearing the same on your E Trac', it
> 's due to possibly being in a different Audio prof
> ile or, a modified Discrimination pattern that is
> 'masking' the "Dunk" sounds?

Des, FANTASTIC response! And if you still have that article, I'd love to read it. Also, if you can expand upon that "linear discrimination" bit I'd appreciate it.

Interesting that you not only KNOW the "thunk" sound I'm referring to, but you experienced it on the Etrac...which I haven't been able to replicate. Is it possible I had an Ireland made Safari then?

The ONLY explanation I can think of for not getting the "thunk" noise on the Etrac, is that unlike the Safari, which I ran exclusively in all-metal, I cannot do the same on the Etrac. It just seems too sensitive. The few times I've tried however, I don't recall ever getting any "thunk" noise. Maybe I'll have to try all-metal again, but my question is...

Why would it matter if I was in all-metal or discrim mode? Wouldn't an ultra deep fringe target not produce a "thunk" sound either way?

Thanks for the info



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2020 06:15PM by njnydigger.

njnydigger,

Glad you posted... thanks a bunch. Appreciated.

I'd have to take both machines and spend an afternoon listening and testing and tweaking...
I'm afraid that "I've forgotten" more than I remember at this stage about how they sound and which does what!
Contrast that with DAILY use of all machines including weekends spent at all the travel stuff and my brain is scrambled!!!
What I'd have to do is sit down and Rewind all my tapes and Listen...
I'll have a look see for that article: published years ago in a British magazine, "Treasure Hunting"

njnydigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Des D Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Harold,ILL. Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > To Me it seemed like the original Ireland made
> E
> > tr
> > > acs had that thunk sound. The newer ones I had
> d
> > id
> > > not. I would listen for it too and
> > >
> > > the tight numbers. It was usually a very deep
> co
> > in
> > > or a semi deep coin on edge. People disagree w
> it
> > h
> > > me on that subject but the Ireland made Etracs
> w
> > er
> > > e different to Me.
> >
> >
> > Right....good Thread: I'm still lucky to be runn
> in
> > g one of those "Ireland" E Trac's and it was the
> D
> > emo machine that was taken around to events, exp
> o'
> > s, rallies and its still goin' today.
> > And YES, it does "Thunk", "Dunk" o
> r
> > any of the other strange sounds it can produce!
> I
> > wrote an article trying to explain just what the
> s
> > ounds meant.
> >
> > I was also lucky to have been one of the few fol
> ks
> > that prototyped the older "Quattro" Jeez...that
> wa
> > s a long period 'cos most of the brains behind i
> t
> > went on Annual Leave almost continuously through
> ou
> > t the project!
> > However, the testing I did for the duration brou
> gh
> > t about a "slowish" but deep seeking machine. "S
> af
> > ari" was how it was adressed to "speed it up" a
> ta
> > d!
> > The LO/HIGH Trash were kept but Default was HI i
> n
> > the Safari whereby Quattro had LO set in. There
> we
> > re a few other 'tweaks' to software and possibly
> o
> > ne or two components were changed on the boards.
> > The audio was straight from "E Trac" and its dou
> bf
> > ul they 're-mapped' the software for the "Linear
> "
> > Discrimination? But that's 'how and why' "Safari
> "
> > can "Dunk" in its audio responses.
> >
> > If you're not hearing the same on your E Trac',
> it
> > 's due to possibly being in a different Audio pr
> of
> > ile or, a modified Discrimination pattern that i
> s
> > 'masking' the "Dunk" sounds?
>
> Des, FANTASTIC response! And if you still have tha
> t article, I'd love to read it. Also, if you can e
> xpand upon that "linear discrimination" bit I'd ap
> preciate it.
>
> Interesting that you not only KNOW the "thunk" sou
> nd I'm referring to, but you experienced it on the
> Etrac...which I haven't been able to replicate. Is
> it possible I had an Ireland made Safari then?
>
> The ONLY explanation I can think of for not gettin
> g the "thunk" noise on the Etrac, is that unlike t
> he Safari, which I ran exclusively in all-metal, I
> cannot do the same on the Etrac. It just seems too
> sensitive. The few times I've tried however, I don
> 't recall ever getting any "thunk" noise. Maybe I'
> ll have to try all-metal again, but my question is
> ...
>
> Why would it matter if I was in all-metal or discr
> im mode? Wouldn't an ultra deep fringe target not
> produce a "thunk" sound either way?
>
> Thanks for the info

So I take it your Etrac is not a Ireland made one?

Des, thanks a bunch! Looking forward to the info. And I'm the same way. After I stop using a machine I tend to forget a lot of the "nuts & bolts" stuff about them lol. It amazes me how guys like Keith can remember specifics about a detector years or even decades after swinging them.

Harold, if your question was directed at me, I wouldn't even know what an Ireland made Minelab looks like. I've heard about them for years, and I'm assuming one would tell by the serial # or something, kinda like the old Los Banos CZ's...but that's just a guess. Maybe Des can explain that in his reply.

The only way I can tell is if it has the original box as it looks different and has made in Ireland on the side. Funny side note I met up with a guy in a Chicago park detecting with a Etrac and I had my
CZ-3D. We started talking and before I even mentioned I had a Etrac he said this was his second one and not as good as the first one he had that was made in Ireland so I am not the only one who thinks so.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2020 03:04PM by Harold,ILL..

So the Irish models used different parts? I’m not saying it isn’t true because I don’t know, but once a topic takes hold in a persons psyche, it’s really easy to buy into it without any real world testing or scientific processes involved. “So and so said it, so there must be something to it”. I’m sure there are slight differences in tolerances of certain parts, but to make one eTrac obviously better than the next is a tough one for me to believe. If it IS proven...PROVEN...to be true, that’s not good.

They are suppose to be the same parts just assembled in Malaysia that is why most don't believe it but I had 6 in all 4 Malaysia and 2 Ireland made and to me there was a difference. It's not even that one is hotter it is just one sounds a little different on deep coins and better and smoother in iron. Like I said above I heard it from others before I even mentioned the subject and most don't even cruise the forums so they were not repeating what they heard else were.

Ireland vs Malaysia.... Most likely related to tribal knowledge on the mfg floor. Hard to transfer experience to a new mfg site. Even harder when your job is being out sourced to some out of country mfg site.

HH
Mike