And now for something completely different

I expect we are pretty bored picking on CBash and each other - let’s have some fun looking at the mayhem Kemper is spreading over on Findmall. Here’s his latest - captured before it is XXX’d

]While I share no joy in presenting this I think it rises to a level where the members here should be aware of it.

I received the following message and threat from a mod here . While I understand he has the authority to make the forum look as he wishes by deleting threads, I don't believe he has the authority to force someone to respond how he wishes them to in order for that person to keep posting. Notice that he doesn't leave the option open for me to respond if and as I wish and then make his decision. He is actually telling me I must respond and I must respond how he wishes as it will figure in his decision on any future postings by me. If he were not forcing me to respond, this may not rise to this level.

I must react to the below message in order to keep posting because how I react will have an in influence . I find it hard to believe that a for-profit business can try to force someone to perform an action such as this to participate in that business. This is different than the mod making a decision on my participation based on what I may have done without having to react as he wishes. Here is his demand -


"GateKeeper"]https://www.findmall.com/data/avatars/m/30/30135.jpg?1579543082[/IMG]
GateKeeper
Administrator
Staff member
Yesterday at 7:03 PM
Seems to me you are enjoying yourself trolling people and basically bad mouthing this forum. Well mister, that's not going to continue. If you want to stay here, you are going to mact like a civil human being and not a nasty troll living under a bridge. How you react to this message will help my decision on what to do with you next.

I take great pleasure knowing that every morning I wake up, and my feet hit the floor, the devil says "Oh No, He's awake!

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Oh OK



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2020 07:44PM by u2robert.

Free speech is one thing. Coming in and wreaking havoc on a privately held and run forum is another. We are all guests of the administrator. Ask Tom. If it gets ridiculous, he’ll say so, and then...WHAM-O! I’m just speculating, but that’s what will happen. Wanna bet? If a person wants to exercise “free speech”...that’s called a “BLOG”.

I thought when I clicked on this I was gonna see a chevy suburban buried in the desert sand. Guess I was wrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2020 02:49AM by tnsharpshooter.

u2robert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People being @ssholes is American right
> It's called freedom of speech.
> I might not like what someone says but
> what I dislike more is censorship.


Privately owned --doesn't apply. Owner can do what he wishes with his business.

Ask me no questions and I will tell you no lies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2020 07:46PM by u2robert.

u2robert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Elbert Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > u2robert Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > People being @ssholes is American right
> > > It's called freedom of speech.
> > > I might not like what someone says but
> > > what I dislike more is censorship.
> >
> >
> > Privately owned --doesn't apply. Owner can do wh
> at
> > he wishes with his business.
>
> So the free exchange of ideas do not apply here.
> OK got it. I will toe the line comrade

Now your mixing it up. First you said censorship now you are saying exchange of ideas. All I did was state what the owner could do with his business. I don't know what you mean by " comrade" I hope it is not what I think and I'm not telling you to toe the line. I couldn't care less what you do.

Free speech only exists in the public sphere, you can print what you want (if you have the means) you can say what you want - but these rights have limits. For example, shouting “Fire” in a crowded theater is an example of the sort of thing that is not free speech. In fact, if you do this you will be breaking the law.

Other limits are imposed by the fact that certain actions leave you open to liability for damages under civil law. Slandering someone by publicly “saying” a negative thing which is in fact a lie - is not a crime, but it is a Tort - that is, it is an action which under civil law leaves you open to a lawsuit (which is a private prosecution) and a judgement for damages.

Other limits are imposed on your actions on private property. Breaking the rules established by the owner of a premises is not a crime, but it leaves you open to a demand by the owner that you cease, and if you refuse to cease and refuse to leave, you are liable to a charge of trespass - which may be civil or criminal depending on the circumstances.

A forum is the private property of the owner and we are an invitees. We can be “uninvited” by the owner at any time and for any reason.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2020 04:50PM by lytle78.

You kind of jumbled up slander with defamation a little. Defamation is a false statement presented as a fact that causes injury or damage to the character of the person it is about. Slander is an untrue defamatory statement that is spoken orally. The difference between defamation and slander is that a defamatory statement can be made in any medium. It could be in a blog comment or spoken in a speech or said on television. Libelous acts only occur when a statement is made in writing (digital statements count as writing) and slanderous statements are only made orally.

Also, 24 states have criminal statutes against defamation, whether slander or libel. The ACLU has been fighting criminal defamation laws for quite a while. So in addition to a civil case, you could be locked up.

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Free speech only exists in the public sphere, you
> can print what you want (if you have the means) yo
> u can say what you want - but these rights have li
> mits. For example, shouting “Fire” in a crowded th
> eater is an example of the sort of thing that is n
> ot free speech. In fact, if you do this you will b
> e breaking the law.
>
> Other limits are imposed by the fact that certain
> actions leave you open to liability for damages un
> der civil law. Slandering someone by publicly “say
> ing” a negative thing which is in fact a lie - is
> not a crime, but it is a Tort - that is, it is an
> action which under civil law leaves you open to a
> lawsuit (which is a private prosecution) and a jud
> gement for damages.
>
> Other limits are imposed on your actions on privat
> e property. Breaking the rules established by the
> owner of a premises is not a crime, but it leaves
> you open to a demand by the owner that you cease,
> and if you refuse to cease and refuse to leave, yo
> u are liable to a charge of trespass - which may b
> e civil or criminal depending on the circumstances
> .
>
> A forum is the private property of the owner and w
> e are an invitees. We can be “uninvited” by the ow
> ner at any time and for any reason.

Don't mess with findmall if you like to lurk there . I got expelled for talking about nel coils on xterras...In hindsight I shoulda knew better.

Woodbutcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't mess with findmall if you like to lurk there
> . I got expelled for talking about nel coils on xt
> erras...In hindsight I shoulda knew better.

Truth, I collected a whole bunch of usernames there because Vlad the Impaler was quick on the ban hammer for the dumbest stuff. One ban was just for saying that you could find good deals on detectors on Craigslist.

Kemper has now been banned from Findmall.

Not sure how many forums that makes?!?

Thanks Chris - I went to USAF pilot training instead of law school. Passed that OK, but doubtless would have flunked the Bar Exam.

I’m sure you are correct, but my point was that a lot of folks think that “Free Speech’ means you can say or write whatever you wish without consequence. You can’t

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2020 03:36AM by lytle78.

FREE SPEECH - how about lying your way into wars?

Is that acceptable Mr Rick as opposed to shouting FIRE in a crowded theater?

[www.earthscan.co.nz]

Forums are a good place for the exchange of ideas, but with forums that are bought and paid for by someone else it's not unreasonable when they ask you to follow their rules and, especially, to show civility. Going into someone else's house and pissing on their walls because you think you have the right to piss wherever you like is a good way to see just how much freedom you have. That said, "some forums" will show you the door if you even mention their wallpaper is ugly.

If nothing else, Kemper is entertaining. He tried his best to get me to boot him from the Geotech forums but I wouldn't play his game. He gave up and left on his own.

Free Speech.
Here’s one example of why we still have freedom of speech.
This gent here based on his bio is imo was a very good pilot and probably had some luck on their side to boot.
Just thinking about how much air time and where in the different dinosaur A/c and living to tell about it exceptional.

[en.m.wikipedia.org])



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2020 12:05PM by tnsharpshooter.

A missing bracket? Here's the non-mobile version:
[en.wikipedia.org]

IDXMonster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Free speech is one thing. Coming in and wreaking h
> avoc on a privately held and run forum is another.
> We are all guests of the administrator. Ask Tom. I
> f it gets ridiculous, he’ll say so, and then...WHA
> M-O! I’m just speculating, but that’s what will ha
> ppen. Wanna bet? If a person wants to exercise “fr
> ee speech”...that’s called a “BLOG”.


Perfectly said!

Hey RC - since you seem to delight in “poking” me when you get the chance, I thought I ought to try and figure out what the heck your last comment was about and post some kind of response.

I started out by wondering if you were you old enough to be in the NZ Army when they were deployed to Viet Nam? How about when NZ forces were deployed to Saudi Arabia for Desert Storm, or perhaps for their deployment to Afghanistan?

As for me, I never lied my way into any war. The first one I was in - I volunteered for by joining the USAF in 1968 and completing pilot training, knowing full well that a tour of duty in South East Asia would likely result. It did of course and soon I found myself flying air refueling missions as a KC-135 pilot on several three-month long “YoungTiger” deployments to South East Asia. A non-heroic but important role. The role of NZ forces was much more “kinetic” than mine.

The next war I was in I sort of volunteered for as well. In September 1990, I arrived in Riyadh to start work for a Swedish Construction company, knowing full well that the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait would lead to war. My participation was two fold - during the deployment and build-up of international forces to oust Iraq, groups of us drove north on weekends in vehicles loaded with cold drinks and snacks and visited with deployed forces in northern Saudi Arabia. The second part of my involvement was by being a target along with the other residents of Riyadh for Scud missile attacks by the Iraqis. Pretty much every cloudy night after the war began, we were attacked - the cloud cover was essential to help hide the mobile launchers. On launch warning, we all huddled in our pre-fab houses with taped up windows - gas mask handy - occasionally bits of scuds and Patriot debris would hit roofs in our compound.

So RC- to sum it up - I have been in two wars in one way or another and I can honestly state that I didn’t lie my way into any of them.

If I have misunderstood your somewhat cryptic post, my apologies.

P.S. Since this whole post is a bit off-topic for this forum - I’ll throw in a little “metal detecting” comment. The Scud launches towards Riyadh came from the North and Northeast. Pretty much every Scud was intercepted by Patriot missiles which often hit the Scud with warhead fragments causing them to begin to disintegrate. Unfortunately for us in Riyadh, since the Scud is like the Nazi V2, the whole missile continues to the target, not just a warhead - total destruction of the Scud was impossible. The result of all this was that after most attacks, lots of us guys from my company (our families had been evacuated before the shooting started) would be late for work on account of racing around in the empty desert north of town “scud hunting” we found all kinds of debris from patriots and scuds. One of my pals got a complete scud rocket engine which he had turned into an attractive glass encased corner table for his house. I ended up with some warhead fragments, a piece of titanium scud “skin” and a structural member with welding inspection stamps which made it traceable to the lot and date of manufacture in Russia.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2020 03:36PM by lytle78.

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey RC - since you seem to delight in “poking” me
> when you get the chance, I thought I ought to try
> and figure out what the heck your last comment was
> about and post some kind of response.
>
> I started out by wondering if you were you old eno
> ugh to be in the NZ Army when they were deployed t
> o Viet Nam? How about when NZ forces were deployed
> to Saudi Arabia for Desert Storm, or perhaps for t
> heir deployment to Afghanistan?
>
> As for me, I never lied my way into any war. The f
> irst one I was in - I volunteered for by joining t
> he USAF in 1968 and completing pilot training, kno
> wing full well that a tour of duty in South East A
> sia would likely result. It did of course and soon
> I found myself flying air refueling missions as a
> KC-135 pilot on several three-month long “YoungTig
> er” deployments to South East Asia. A non-heroic b
> ut important role. The role of NZ forces was much
> more “kinetic” than mine.
>
> The next war I was in I sort of volunteered for as
> well. In September 1990, I arrived in Riyadh to st
> art work for a Swedish Construction company, knowi
> ng full well that the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait w
> ould lead to war. My participation was two fold -
> during the deployment and build-up of internationa
> l forces to oust Iraq, groups of us drove north on
> weekends in vehicles loaded with cold drinks and s
> nacks and visited with deployed forces in northern
> Saudi Arabia. The second part of my involvement wa
> s by being a target along with the other residents
> of Riyadh for Scud missile attacks by the Iraqis.
> Pretty much every cloudy night after the war began
> , we were attacked - the cloud cover was essential
> to help hide the mobile launchers. On launch warni
> ng, we all huddled in our pre-fab houses with tape
> d up windows - gas mask handy - occasionally bits
> of scuds and Patriot debris would hit roofs in our
> compound.
>
> NZ sent a military medical team as their contribut
> ion to that one.
>
> So RC- to sum it up - I have been in two wars in o
> ne way or another and I can honestly state that I
> didn’t lie my way into any of them.
>
> If I have misunderstood your somewhat cryptic post
> , my apologies.

I'd have a beer with you anytime!!

Like Ron, I'll have one with you Rick.

El

wow - Mr Rick or is it now 'chip'?

I simply asked for your opinion on what I presented in comparison to what you presented -

"FREE SPEECH - how about lying your way into wars?

Is that acceptable Mr Rick as opposed to shouting FIRE in a crowded theater?"


Try something new and address the actual question and not assume you are constantly being picked on
. You started a thread and I simply responded by asking your opinion when comparing harm caused.

As for your big stories, I am sure you got a nice shiny thing to pin on your breast - Congrats

[www.earthscan.co.nz]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2020 08:49PM by rustic charm.

I’ll tell you what RC. First of all thanks for giving me a Segway for thinking back on some stuff from the dim past.

Secondly, your question seems to be is “lying your way into wars” acceptable.

Well, I guess it depends on your notion of acceptable. My original post wasn’t about what was “acceptable” - it was about what was permissible. that is to say what kind of exposure does someone bring upon themselves for the exercise of speech under different circumstances,

Shouting “fire” - criminal exposure under criminal law

Slandering someone - civil exposure under civil law

Speech unacceptable to a proprietor on their property or premises - expulsion

Lying your way into wars - guess it depends who lied and what war. Perhaps you would enlighten us regarding what your are referring to, then we could discuss what sort of exposure - criminal, civil or other exposure the liar would face.

While waiting from further enlightenment from your side, and just in case your examples throw “shade” on the country I reside in, here’s a bit from the “folks who live in glass houses shouldn’t trow stones department”.

Here is a bit from Wikipedia - looks like all kinds of folks get into wars on shaky grounds.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2020 09:18PM by lytle78.

"Secondly, your question seems to be is “lying your way into wars” acceptable."

You are assuming again when the question is right there - I am comparing the harm caused by falsely lying ones way into invading other countries as opposed to what you provided as an example i.e. person shouting FIRE in a crowded theater -

Correctly that person should be prosecuted for possibly causing harm to others through malicious lies YET those that enforce that law can simply, LIE, point finger, then invade another country which I presume would cause more harm - YET are NOT held to account by anyone and that is a problem we are seeing today -

that's all, NO hidden agenda and NO attack on you

btw - thank you for your service

[www.earthscan.co.nz]

Some folks should be happy they didn't have to learn to speak Japanese.

While I agree that Kemper is a pain and pretty much deserves what he gets, I have received similar treatment from GK when I called those selling Long Range Locators crooks. And I did this in a private PM; not even in public.

Gatekeeper will sell his mother's virginity for a nickel if he can get it.

No disrespect here Rick,

I feel issues from other forums need not be shared here, Just don’t feel it’s good for our forum.

Take care,
Paul

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I expect we are pretty bored picking on CBash and
> each other - let’s have some fun looking at the ma
> yhem Kemper is spreading over on Findmall. Here’s
> his latest - captured before it is XXX’d
>
> ]While I share no joy in presenting this I thin
> k it rises to a level where the members here shoul
> d be aware of it.
>
> I received the following message and threat from a
> mod here . While I understand he has the authority
> to make the forum look as he wishes by deleting th
> reads, I don't believe he has the authority to for
> ce someone to respond how he wishes them to in ord
> er for that person to keep posting. Notice that he
> doesn't leave the option open for me to respond if
> and as I wish and then make his decision. He is ac
> tually telling me I must respond and I must respon
> d how he wishes as it will figure in his decision
> on any future postings by me. If he were not forci
> ng me to respond, this may not rise to this level.
>
> I must react to the below message in order to keep
> posting because how I react will have an in influe
> nce . I find it hard to believe that a for-profit
> business can try to force someone to perform an ac
> tion such as this to participate in that business.
> This is different than the mod making a decision o
> n my participation based on what I may have done w
> ithout having to react as he wishes. Here is his d
> emand -
>
>
> "GateKeeper"]https://www.findmall.com/data/avatars
> /m/30/30135.jpg?1579543082[/IMG]
> GateKeeper
> Administrator
> Staff member
> Yesterday at 7:03 PM
> Seems to me you are enjoying yourself trolling peo
> ple and basically bad mouthing this forum. Well mi
> ster, that's not going to continue. If you want to
> stay here, you are going to mact like a civil huma
> n being and not a nasty troll living under a bridg
> e. How you react to this message will help my deci
> sion on what to do with you next.
>
> I take great pleasure knowing that every morning I
> wake up, and my feet hit the floor, the devil says
> "Oh No, He's awake!

Good point Paul. I guess I saved it because I was pretty sure it would disappear, then Kemper talk here had me share it here.

Upon reflection, I doubt that I will do similar cross-posting again - we are pretty accomplished at stirring up our own mud.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

El



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2020 10:24PM by Elbert.

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good point Paul. I guess I saved it because I was
> pretty sure it would disappear, then Kemper talk h
> ere had me share it here.
>
> Upon reflection, I doubt that I will do similar cr
> oss-posting again - we are pretty accomplished at
> stirring up our own mud.

Hello Rick,

No problem, I’ve made many of post wish I could take back. Ive always said you and Mud Puppy are the greatest writers out there, Tom in Salinas is another great writer. Looking forward to reading future post of yours, and thank you for your service.

Paul