CZ-3d, disapointed, or not?

Hi Guys, and Gals (if there are any),
I picked up a cz-3d, (1021 S.# w/ 8" coil), a couple weeks ago that I've been eyeing up for a few years now, it has never been sold at the dealers.
First time out I hit a 1724 Britania but only @ 2" deep. Nice, but no test. From reading, they say you can't go past 4.5 sens and be stable. I don't like being limited on the sens setting. And I know the higher you turn it up the deeper it gets...already burried a dime at 8" and it barley hit it at sens set at 4.5. Hits it loud and clear all ways at sens set at 6 and above. Now here was my dilemma. Any sens setting above 4 it would false on a lot of the iron (zero disc) when the coil was not directly over it. So having to swing the coil over the falses to make sure they were not real high tones over coins was a drag. I was a little disappointed.
Put the cz up for a weekend and used the f-75, my baby.
Just today I figured I would try the cz again and back to the same place determined to run the sens up at 7 or 8 or higher, zero disc. Again, the area is loaded with iron and I'm thinking this isn't going to work because the cz is slower than the 75, how is it going to seperate. As I was concentrating on the tones and the falses and digging, I noticed for one; high tone falses were phantom like at times and/or the iron was at the side of the coil. When the coil was directly over the iron, mostly but not all the time I would get the iron low tone or a false from another piece of iron, kind of like stacking up the falses.

As I was inching along, I get a high tone that sounds like a "ting" I notice a little different than the false high tone. I dig down 6" and shove the pinpointer in the hole, locate the target, what do you think shows up? A rusty iron nail 2" long. Darn! I put the pinpointer back in the same spot the nail came out of and it sounds off...must be another nail or part of the other. I jab my hand digger next to the spot (a little more frustrated at this point) remove about a spoonfull of dirt, jab it in again and pry sideways, out pops a 1838 large cent, well I'll be. How did this cz do that? Hmmmm, that's impressive, lets listen for that again. A few dozen swings later I get a "ting" high tone again with low tones within inches. I pull out two nails and a 22 casing and just below that, out pops a wheat...What da! Maybe all the stuff I've been reading and hearing about the cz's are really true...SWEET!! I think I'm getting the hang of this jem.
The tone language is something I wanted to learn from an analog machine. I hear the good ole boys on this forum talking about it often, especially Kieth Southern. At the first outing (with the exception of finding the Britania) I was a little dissapointed because of the limited sens vrs. stability. After today though, I feel like I'm past that obstacle and can differentiate between the falses and the coin high tones and am glad I purchased the cz...just hafta learn it's language. I did dig many deep nails but thats (from what I hear) is the nature of the beast. Thanks.

Once you learn it's language (really......not that hard to do)......you will be pleasently stunned.

......If there are TOO much iron falses to your dislike......rotate your Grnd Bal to lower numbers (regardless of proper Grnd Bal setting). What 'specific' number is dictated by YOUR dirt conditions/variables.

Tom, I did lower the gb from 5.5 down to 3.5 - 4, learned that from you. Eighty percent of the falses turned to low iron tones. I ordered the 10.5 inch coil. I'm getting a little attached to that cz. Thanks.

Optimum setting sens. wise for CZ3D plain and simple is between 4 and 5 and higher settings will just get you a unstable unit not more depth. Your problem is Rome wasn't built in a day and you are not going to feel comfortable with a CZ until after manhy hours in the field. Practice that ground balancing as that what gives you more depth and stability. Indeed a CZ may be user friendly but takes a bit to learn its language.
F75 and CZ3D are just different beasts so take your time and all will fall into place. Very informative forum so any questions fire away...

I'll be testing the sens vs. depth. It dosen't sit right with me that past 5 won't yield more depth. I proved it by burying the dime in the field at 8" and it barely sounded on it, then raising it to 6 hit it no problem. I'm a little confused about the 4.5 setting Dan-Pa. What happens to the cz above 5? The receive coil becomes more sensitive, have something to do with that? The ground ballancing is easy and simple, I have no problem with that.
Dan-Pa, I know you have more experience than most with the cz's but I want to break this 4.5 rule, I don't like it and up till now, refuse to believe it. Please, all cz owners, lets have it. Don't worry about contradicting each other, we can always say "in my soil" or "around here, this is what happens". Thanks.

I know it seems strange as the average detector probably runs at its max at at least 2/3 rds. lets say 7-8 out of 10 so no technical answer(just nature of the beast) Tom can give the technical specs. I do know the the newest analog CZ3D and digital CZ70 have different sens. parameters than previous CZ models and actually thought I had bought a broken CZ70 when I tried to run it in 6 sens. and became extremely unstable and had to reset to 4 and of course same scenario with the CZ3D...Having said the above I know using earlier CZ models I was able to run 6-7-8 sens. with a stable unit, but heres the kicker a CZ3D at sens. 4-5 will go as deep as say a CZ6A set at 8 sens.I know some fellas push the sens. as high as they can and put up with the noise but trying same it never got me any more appreciable depth and of course an excedrin headache...Experimentation leads to in many cases a more efficient unit so be my guest and let the forum know how it turns out but I do know if I had a CZ3D in my hands hunting I would be between 4-5 sens. and if I has an earlier model CZ6A sens. might be 7-8 so whatever works comes to mind...

Hi Dan-Pa, Are you saying the CZ3D is deeper than the CZ6a with 4-5 sitting of 7-8 on cz6a? If you turn up the CZ6a to max will it go as deep as the CZ3D? or will the CZ3D always be deeper than the CZ6a.

No....a properly tuned CZ6A is just as deep as a CZ3D and vice versa....the idea is to get a stable unit and using the bobbing method with volume and Sens. maxed you should be able to hear the difference in audio to get a spot on ground balance....Do remember the tolerances in metal detectors may vary a tad and in either case there are hot and cold units in any brand unit you may be using...Also remember the CZ6A was originally made in 93 and don't know the exact date discontinued but it hasn't been made in years and if you feel your CZ6A isn't up to par a trip for a tuneup is in order as electrical components lose the efficiency in some cases and the same could also be said for a newer CZ3D as they may be assembled in the USA or Mexico which I understand is a new policy which differs from the old Fisher but the components in many case are not made in the good old USA and the same can be said for the TV your are viewing or the PC you are using to post..
PS: after ground balancing set the sens. to your specs and also the volume as below 5 volume is modulated and above all targets sound the same no matter which depth. Remember in pinpoint its modulated and shallow is loud and a 12 inch deepy may be barely audible...

My 1021 3D is like Ozzie's, I have to turn it up to 7 or higher to get the depth out of it that is common for CZ's. Maybe it's time for a tune-up.

I know I'm repeating myself.......yet it's worth mentioning again.

In MOST cases.........on a analog CZ.........setting your Sens on around 4-3/4 is maximum depth. Raising the Sens any higher just simply increases the volume of deep targets..........giving the illusion that depth is being increased. This is true MOST of the time. Yes, there are some soil conditions whereby....increasing Sens above 4-3/4......and a bit more depth is gained. This is somewhat rare......but does happen with certain soils.

From hands on experience sounds about right to me but I still say the CZ3D analog has different sens. parameters
which is also true of the last CZ70 digital in some of the units. Basically the idea is to ground balance spot on and run sens. as high as you can while still having a stable unit. Some avid CZ users run the ground balance a tad positive and do put up with some instability and falsing and claim more depth but always felt setting it dead on it went as deep as I want to dig and some on a real bad saltwater enviroment set it a tad negative for better performance but my only experience along this line was N.J. shores and again had no need to do to run efficiently. Do remember in your neck of the woods this may not be true as areas differ...

Dan, I'm in the same state your in, Pa....southeastern near Doylestown. I'd say the soil around here is kind of mid to low mineralization. It's a short jaunt to Jersey beaches.

I do know this....when I run my 6a's above sensitivity setting 6 in discriminate mode, I HAVE to swing a lot slower to keep the falsing to a minimum. I hardly ever run them more than 5, keep my volume at 10 on the CZ, and use good headphones that have volume adjustment knobs for each ear.

I have done a lot of depth testing since using my CZ's back in the early 90's, with different sensitivity settings and for the two 6a's that I have, going above 6 does nothing to improve depth but makes it more prone to falsing and requires a much slower sweep speed to keep it stable. I guess I have my ear 'trained' for those faint, sharp, repeatable high tone 'tinks'.

Ozzie in the Fall when crowds thin...get a tide table for Atlantic City...work the tide out.....CZ's excell in this enviroment..

Years ago took the gamblers bus to Atlantic City(3hrs) from N.E. Pa......Breakdown CZ's easy to carry and made a two piece scoop to carry in a large bag....got silver back to a seated dime..and must have come from a ship 1781 Realle...along with High School rings back to the twenties a few small diamond rings and some large Italian Gold chains(14Kt)...lots of Mercs...and some barber coins..OH for the good old days...

Today never could last more than a few hours so as Tom's says made memories...probably set some of record for trips as went from fall right thru the winter(salt water sand never freezes) for ten years or so...good cabin fever killer for sure...

If working dry sand ground balance in same and vice versa for wet sand....a trip in the summer to see the hot spots where crowds gather helps even though the waves really move things around...

Will do, maybe sooner than the fall. Did they do any beach replenishing in NJ, back in the 50's and 60s'?

Im not a CZ user but i understand what Toms saying about sensitivity only increasing the volume of everything being processed. If you are young with good hearing and concentration or are just willing to listen and try to ignore all the NOISE you have a good chance of digging some of those targets we miss. I once talked to Jimmy Sierra about digging wrap around targets at depth..... his reply was it wasnt worth the few targets found. But.... with few of these great relics and finds out there should we be? Depth as we see it comes down to a lot of different things..... mostly hearing and being able to separate those desirable target that stop us in our tracks.

Dew

Not to my knowledge but they did several years ago and according to the locals killed the amount of finds.

Get on one of the water and beach hunting forums as you can gain a lot of info rel N.J. beach detecting.

My feelings one good Northeastern storm and the hunting again improves.

Out of touch but again the forums relative this type of hunting have lots of N.J. hunters that post regularly and perhaps a forum member might add some info along this line...