Deus questions (Tn-sharpshooter, etc....)

Hey guys, Merry Christmas.

A few observations about the Deus I got. And then followup questions :

When I had a Deus on loan from a friend, it was the prior generation type. That only went up to 17.6 kHz. I had a lot of fun with it, in a certain spot in my part of CA, that had given up seateds and reales "back in the day". Where a carpet of iron exists, that has been hit by every-detector-known to man over the years. So much so, that to get ANY more conductive targets at this site, is a good testament to the machine's ability in iron (even if only camp lead, rivets, etc....). And my ratio of iron-junk that fooled me wasn't that bad. Perhaps for every 2 conductive targets, I'd get a piece of cast-iron that fooled me. That's tolerable. I was quite pleased with the results of the Deus, and promptly rushed out to buy my own Deus. I got the latest x35 version.

And the first place I used it was at a ghost-town hunt with a couple of friends recently. HOWEVER : I noticed that I was digging TONS of flat iron, that sounded *soooo Good*. And we're not talking larger chunks , like cast-iron stove parts, that of-course will fool you. We're talking even thin (index card thin) quarter to domino size flaky small stuff. Like the type tin that coffee cans are made of . And not the "soldered heavy bottoms" that , sure, are bound to fool a lot of machines. I was digging 15 such items before ever landing on a conductive item. So I was getting SPANKED by my buddies, in target count. They were using Nox 800s. They were digging less iron, by far.

After awhile, I could sort of *tell* the "gimmee" conductor signals, versus iron. Because the sound was smoother. So in a certain sense, if I wanted, I could play-the-odds and pass some of the iron, based on audio. Sure. But the devil is in the details : The mere fact that various signals gave the "gimmee" sound of a conductive target, would simply mean that the Deus had a "clear line of sight" to the target. Thus the clean signal. WELL GEE, then if THAT is the case, then so-too would my Explorer ALSO theoretically be able to get a hit, if the target was that un-obstructed. Doh !

So I found myself digging all the beeps, in-the fear that a conductor was being masked by-some-degree of iron. And then ended up digging way-too-much iron junk. I repeated this same scenario, a week or so later, at an old-town urban demolition site with one of those 2 friends : Digging WAY too much flat tin type stuff, while my friend tended to have better grasp with his 800.

I played with all the settings. I went back and forth with 17.6 vs 25-ish kHz. I tried every trick in the book. And thought I had found the answer : That the prior generation Deus (that I'd borrowed from the friend) was somehow different than this x35 version. EVEN THOUGH they are said to be the same, when in-the-same settings. And that the x35 version simply allows for higher frequencies. But in theory, I should be able to replicate results, if , for example, I was in 17.6 k on each one. Right ?

But after comparing the 2 units again, I have abandoned that notion. I now think I see the reason for my initial good results on the borrowed Deus, vs the poor results thereafter : The location I first tried the older Deus at, was abandoned/gone by the mid 1850s (early 1860s, at the latest). So there is simply no flat tin there. The type iron I am dealing with, is discernible on the Deus. Versus the latter locations that I took the x35 to, were in-use up to the 1900 to 1930-ish range. Thus they have different types of tin and iron to contend with.

Also I notice that crown cap bottle caps (which would NEVER be at a site that ceased-all human influence in the 1800s) will "ring the bells of Notre Dame" on the Deus.

So now the questions : 1) Is there any setting tricks to alleviate the bombardment of flat-tin ? 2) How about bottle caps ? 3) And if you say that they can be discerned by audio, then do-tell : Wouldn't that mean I'm at risk of missing a conductor trying to bleed through a nail ?

I realize that for machines that do-better at iron-see-through, that it's to be expected that, sure, I'll dig more junk. Versus the Explorer, which, sure, you tend to NEVER get fooled by iron (but is not renowned for iron-see-through). But at a certain point, it can become ridiculous.

Any advice from long-time Deus users ? Thanx.

First of all Tom, you need to remember how long you have been running Explorer.

You won’t learn Deus or even an EQX 800 in just a couple months. I didn’t. I think I am pretty level headed at least IQ wise.

Using Deus at higher freq has advantages and disadvantages in iron ridden sites.
Sure one could take a Deus run 12 kHz and dig a lot of the gimmes. Targets that have less masking taking place.

I will squeeze a few comments in on the EQX 800 here as well.
I guarantee some folks are hearing some tones over targets and are walking thinking ferrous. I did the very same thing. And once I caught on I started investigating more and sure enough nonferrous object. The same will happen to a new Deus user.

Crown caps.
One way to not dig the using Deus.
If you get over target reading higher ID and let’s say you already dug a crown cap. And you were using higher freq band on Deus.
Have your Deus set up to un- normalize ID, after you hit a target using say 12hkz or higher freq band, switch to 4 kHz. Watch ID. If it stays the same or goes higher = ferrous most of the time. If ID goes lower = nonferrous target most of the time. Now here’s the trouble one can run into. Deus on deeper target may give signal but no ID, so if this happens my tip won’t help you. Iron tone present- May indicate some masking potentially.

Use of XY screen can help with spotting ferrous thingies. But one word of caution. You hear iron tone co I got in XY screen data more suspect, meaning XY screen may be saying ferrous because of commingled target setup. XY screen bigger help in more modern sites imo
One can try out the XY screen on some known things like tin, crown caps, etc,

Deus audio is where it is with the machine. You can tell by audio nuance (on 2 nonferous targets that read equal or near equal ID) on which is say the pot metal and which is the coin or button alloys.. it will take time and study over loads of targets and lots of digging to get the hang of what Deus is telling you.

It is very easy to give up and go back to one’s suppose old faithful detector, especially when their bud(s) are seeming to do better in the field using their detectors. Deus is for real on targets mingled in iron. On more isolated targets not as advantageous, yet the weight and speed Deus can be swept can be huge advantage hunting larger sites with older habitation.

I recommend always trying to run in the middle (freq wise) of whatever band one plans to use. Emi would be a reason to offset your freq inside a freq band.

The whole tonal presentation need some to be studied when listening to the audio when the detector come s over nonferrous and ferrous targets.
Not all nonferrous targets are easy peasy targets to stop on and dig using Deus.
Recommend one to stay in sites if they can with older habitation vs more modern. I think this will speed one’s learning.

Last here.
I have 2 sites.
I used the Deus there a lot. How long did it take me to purge what I have there using Deus?
Long time, like 4- 5 years. I learned the detector there. And in time Inwas doing better and better. Instead of walking past things that I once thought were ferrous. Just like I did with EQX 800.
Give Deus time. Push the unit at times and dig some. You’ll start getting those uh oh moments and start breaking the code on the marvel of a detector called Deus.

(Two detectorist proficient with each) Deus runner will find some things EQX runner won’t find and vice versa.
NASA Tom has said similar here talking of both detectors.

Tom I guarantee there will be some nonferrous a 9” Hf Deus Coil will hit and a Nox user using 11” dd coil will be SOL. Thise targets are out there too.

Cheers.
Merry Christmas.



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2020 12:28AM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First of all Tom, you need to remember how long yo
> u have been running Explorer.

thanx Bro, and Merry Christmas to you too. Thanx for typing all that out. I can tell you put thought into it.

If I can sum all of it up into just a recap, it's basically "You need more practice". And this was a common fall-back refrain when I did side-by-side comparisons with Nox 800 users, back when that first came out . And still do occasional comparing, to this day with my Nox buddies : If EVER I had made the better TID call, then the same refrain is sure to follow : "Gee, you have more years on your explorer", and/or "Gee, I'm still learning my machine".

It's one of those type refrains that's rhetorically strong. No one can never dispute that we can ALL advance with more practice, on ANY machine. I get it.

But here's where I draw the line (like with my current Deus question/lament, and my past comparisons with the Nox) : At a certain point, that ceases to hold water. So for example : If 2 persons are simply comparing end-of-the-day tallies, THEN SURE : The refrain works. But if they're comparing over a known flagged signal, and the person (who is new to their machine), has ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD to play with settings, swing speeds, angles of sweep, etc... And if, after all of that, he notices that there is NO WAY IN HECK that there's any sound difference from the tin versus the coin-under-the-nail.... then ... you have to start to question the knee-jerk refrain

I will study your answer more tomorrow. Am running out the door right now to a Christmas gig.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2020 09:38PM by Tom_in_CA.

Well Tom,
It goes like this.
Just because a person has been detecting a long time.
Are they necessarily the best detectorist?
Folks can find things and they may indeed be satisfied.
But what did they hear (and didin’t give credence) and walked right on by?

Detecting is just like anything else really.
Some folks are more talented and or pick up on things faster.

Question is which one are you or me for that matter?
Going detecting with a person who seems always brings home the bacon. Yeah I’ll hunt with that kinda person any day. Hoping some of their whatever will rub off on me.

It is ok to be competitive while detecting with buds.
But being outdone by a bud should NEVER be a reason to sever a friendship.

We are all getting older here with each passing day too. Gotta watch these young guns. Some are for REAL.
Our mental faculties, hearing, eyesight all start to decline.
Maybe better just to accept, go detect and have fun and just hope we find something worthy,

One who is into detecting to try and outdo another. Got bad news. Terrible reason to be detecting.

So is it the detector or the detectorist? Yeah this comes up quite often. It’s both I think.

You see Tom, I very much understand your dilemma and your quest. I do follow folks and I have drawn some conclusions. Not judge or anything.

And it is possible in life where the teacher becomes the student.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2020 09:58PM by tnsharpshooter.

Tom........ very well articulated.

A shout-out to forum member : Abenson . He was kind enough to take a call this morning, to go over my questions and learning process on this. Thanx Abenson !!

The conclusion was that this is simply going to be weak on the types iron trash I lamented about : Flat tin iron (even small domino sized pieces). And yes, crown bottle caps. These are types of iron that exist in sites that lasted up through the turn of the century, into the 1930s, etc.... But might not be in sites that ceased all human influence after 1870, for example. And needless to say, the rusty crown caps are the curse of the 1960s/70s . Thus if a person is in a site that isn't bedeviled by this type iron, then the Deus is quite at home.

I have no problem with larger iron bleeding through and fooling detectors. Eg.: horse shoes, cast-iron stove parts, etc.... But this was bordering on ridiculous . That it was also weak on even small iron, that other machines effortlessly pass . And to whatever extent a person CAN INDEED "learn" the sounds (and pass this small flat iron), they are running the risk that they're passing a conductor under a nail. Which, likewise, might not be a "clean signal". So after this long phone tutorial, I am of the opinion that someone IS NOT going to learn the signals , to start passing this stuff. Unless he also wants to risk missing out on the "cat's meow" of this machine's renowned ability to see coins in a sea-of-nails.

My last comments here.
Can a fbs/fbs2 find all worthy nonferrous in all sites ? That may be found with another detector model?
Nope.

Can an EQX 800 find all worthy nonferrous in all sites? That may be found with another detector model?
Nope

Can an Xp Deus find all worthy targets nonferrous wise in all sites? That’s may be found with another detector model?
Nope

Coil size, detectors capabilities, freq used are all players.

So which one detector (considering all current and past models made. Reckon which one would be considered the best catch all ? Using all coils available for detector?
I can’t be for sure.
My money is on EQX 800.

A volume finds (worthy finds) person won’t like a Deus maybe. But wonder if they eek out a dollar gold coin or 2 or a couple of seated half dimes out of sites loaded with iron, then they may indeed like.

There is no model detector currently that does ALL well in all situations.
Granted some models have closed this gap. Eqx 800 is imo one such model.

Cheers
Happy New Year

I am mainly a coin hunter. Some say the Deus is not a good coin hunter. I disagree. It does take a lot of time and patience to learn the language of the Deus. On the flat iron and bottlecaps, I use my method that I learned and it works good for me, especially on my trashy parks that are loaded with crown caps. I use three tones and set my tone breaks that give a low tone on iron, a medium tone on low conductors and a high tone on everything else from zinc pennies and higher. Actually, I use two methods and both work well for me. The one I use the most is to wiggle the coil over the target while drawing it toward you. As soon as the coil passes the target, you will nearly always get the iron grunt. The one I use the most is pumping the coil from about 6" to ground level directly over the target. If it is an iron target, you will hear the iron grunt but if it is a good target, the target will stay high. Once you learn this method, you won't have to pump the coil but two or three times to be able to tell if you want to dig or not. Remember, I said I was a coin shooter in trashy parks. I do not know how well, or if it will help you in the iron laden areas and the type of hunting you do, but it is worth trying. It does work for me.

When I first started with the deus I felt the exact same way you are feeling now. Then I pulled a gold coin out of a heavy trash area I had been over with my other machines and forced my self after that to learn the deus. After learning it the hard way without any help from others what I found to be the best way to learn the machine was. 1st find the tone options you like best like 3 tone 4 tone or full tones. Then stick with it. Don't second guess and keep switching from 3 tones to 4 tone to full tones. Stick with one. Same with your programs. For your sites very similar to mine in Nv. Turn to program 3 deus fast and leave it. Then choose your tones you like and leave it. I think full tones gives your the best chance at deciphering thru the busted tin tonally wise but they all work good. Until you really get some good time with the machine make sure you run some disc. Turn at minimum 2 or 3 and max 7-9. Running with zero disc or even low disc in some of the heavy iron sites will cripple your ear from telling a peice of busted tin from a coin. Just overloads the mind after while and everything starts sounding the same. Leave reactivity on 3 or 4. Adding some silencer may help. It is another iron filter. Some sites I have run into the higher frequencies are harder to use and like the iron more. Some sites it seems like the 8 kHz freq will do the best. 12 -18 khz will prob be the best all around freq to use. Set at the 12 and go. Focus on swing speed and audio nuances. The rusted/busted tin will always be with a high long drawn audio response. Is the biggest clue. Coins or relics will be shorter and precise. The higher reactivity settings will make it easier to hear the short and long tones. Long story short pick deus fast and run it until you get really comfortable with it. Dont second guess the settings pick 12 or 18 kHz and run with it. Gonna take time. Your best discrimination is your ear. Once you learn that long tone that the busted tin gives ya it will be easy after that. Hope that will help ya prob all stuff ya been told already.