Multi frequencies

How many have found using more than one frequency at a time is deeper or less deep that using one?
I’m talking about detectors that are multi but also allow you to use one at a time. Do multi frequencies go as deep. I know on the legend M1 is used for high conductors like silver, brass and copper. I would think most of the relics fall into this category. What’s your take? Is the deus 2 a multi frequency machine that cycles through all of its frequencies. And minelab since it has a multi frequency detector. How many hunters feel more than one frequency running at the same time is better?

LowBoy

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If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
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Going back, inland, my f-75 was deeper than my buddies E-trac, his Whites DFX and his MLSEpro.
On the Jersey beach last week I dug a Matchbox toy car in the semi-wet sand and it s 18" deep, with the Deus2. . . signal was loud. I would answer you question with a "Not Necessarily Deeper". . . .and it depends om many factors . . .so many factors that the question is nearly unanswerable unless you test all the detectors in all soils and conditions. How's that for a wast of forum space and your time?

Quote:"I’m talking about detectors that are multi but also allow you to use one at a time"
This probably is not the best way to compare multi vs single. I think single-freq operation was added to the Equinox as a useful secondary feature. Most of the R&D went into the multi-f operation, and the single-f options are a bit 'vanilla'. Evidence from users of the new X-Terra Pro suggest it is more than simply an Equinox with the 'best bit' ( ie. multi-freq ) removed. It actually has improved performance, so presumably Minelab have put some design effort into the X-Terra Pro's single-freq operation. The XTP's performance on a wet beach seems enhanced, in particular.
It would be interesting to know if 'enhanced single-freq' modes could be incorporated in an Equinox update. Possibly the new 700 / 900 models already have such improvements ?

"Is the Deus 2 a multi frequency machine that cycles through all of its frequencies."
It uses two frequencies simultaneously. Those two freqs are varied, depending on the mode selected. For example the 'Deep-HC' uses a low mix, ( 4.8 kHz and 14.4 kHz ) to favour coins such as US 10c, 1c .
For a detailed breakdown of Deus2 modes, see this thread on the Detector Prospector Forum:
[www.detectorprospector.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2023 10:28AM by Pimento.

I've tried single frequency on my Equinox 800 in places of high EMI and can't positively say they are deeper. But I will say the ID is way more accurate with multi selected.

If a multi-frequency detector is engineered properly.......... it should go deeper ------and.......especially.......have better ID------ over any of its single frequencies.
The entire premise of multi-frequency platforms.......are to find a target BEST....with ONE of its multi-frequencies.......then: utilize the other frequencies to ENHANCE the one particular frequency that found that particular target the best.
The one single frequency is called the: Primary frequency. (Sometimes called: the most "resonant" frequency).
All of the other frequencies are called: Secondary frequencies.
A target of low conductivity....... will utilize/have a higher frequency... as its Primary frequency.
A target of high conductivity..... will utilize/have a lower frequency... as its Primary frequency.

Soooooooo.......... with the definitions of PRIMARY & SECONDARY now on the table:
The Primary frequency finds the target the best. The Secondary frequencies do things like = delineate 'target' signal from ground noise....... delineate & segregate mineralization away from actual detected target........ ID salts/alkali so as to subtract from actual target signal.........subtract EMI out of the equation.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., and a host of other things/responsibilities.

PROPERLY ENGINEERED multi-frequency (SMF) units will perform exactly like this ((stated above))....... in nearly all cases; yet, there will indeed be some cases whereby.....the designers of a particular brand/platform.... may produce a platform that is a bit weak in one (or more) of the (above) SECONDARY frequencies responsibilities. If the Secondary frequencies responsibilities are under-engineered........ you will find the unit will perform BETTER if you come out of multi-frequency....and utilize a single frequency only.

All of the above is in non-technical layman's terms.........for better understanding.

Does this clarify anything?.......or........did I confuse/make matters worse???

That was a great explanation the only other
question that remains is what units out there are worthy of using multi frequencies? Of course we want depth also!

LowBoy

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If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Markg, I have the same experience as you with the Nox. The multi freq ID's way better than single.

What Pimento says makes sense to me. Minelab put their R&D eggs into the multi basket and added single as an afterthought secondary feature...a feature that unfortunately is too often needed to combat EMI issues that reduce multi to only being usable at a sensitivity level below the already fairly conservative default setting.

From experience, I can say that the two single frequency detectors I own, including the entry level Teknetics Minuteman (Eurotek Pro) ID better than the Nox in SF.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If a multi-frequency detector is engineered proper
> ly.......... it should go deeper ------and.......e
> specially.......have better ID------ over any of i
> ts single frequencies.
> The entire premise of multi-frequency platforms...
> ....are to find a target BEST....with ONE of its m
> ulti-frequencies.......then: utilize the other fre
> quencies to ENHANCE the one particular frequency t
> hat found that particular target the best.
> The one single frequency is called the: Primary fr
> equency. (Sometimes called: the most "resonant" fr
> equency).
> All of the other frequencies are called: Secondary
> frequencies.
> A target of low conductivity....... will utilize/h
> ave a higher frequency... as its Primary frequency
> .
> A target of high conductivity..... will utilize/ha
> ve a lower frequency... as its Primary frequency.
>
> Soooooooo.......... with the definitions of PRIMAR
> Y & SECONDARY now on the table:
> The Primary frequency finds the target the best. T
> he Secondary frequencies do things like = delineat
> e 'target' signal from ground noise....... delinea
> te & segregate mineralization away from actual det
> ected target........ ID salts/alkali so as to subt
> ract from actual target signal.........subtract EM
> I out of the equation.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., and a host
> of other things/responsibilities.
>
> PROPERLY ENGINEERED multi-frequency (SMF) units wi
> ll perform exactly like this ((stated above)).....
> .. in nearly all cases; yet, there will indeed be
> some cases whereby.....the designers of a particul
> ar brand/platform.... may produce a platform that
> is a bit weak in one (or more) of the (above) SECO
> NDARY frequencies responsibilities. If the Seconda
> ry frequencies responsibilities are under-engineer
> ed........ you will find the unit will perform BET
> TER if you come out of multi-frequency....and util
> ize a single frequency only.
>
> All of the above is in non-technical layman's term
> s.........for better understanding.
>
> Does this clarify anything?.......or........did I
> confuse/make matters worse???


NASA-Tom,

That was some terrific information. It makes complete sense, and explains things that I "sensed" were the case (and have mentioned on the forum before), but had no way of knowing whether what I observed that APPEARED to be happening, is actually what was happening electronically. Now, it seems you have confirmed it. That is, with my old Minelab Explorer, I have mentioned how, on a coin-type target, that unit was able to "hold onto" a very accurate CONDUCTIVE ID to very deep depths in my irony dirt, while the FERROUS ID would deteriorate (creep higher) with depth. It always seemed to me that what FBS was able to do quite well in my dirt, was confine the "deterioration" of target ID with depth in my irony clay soil to the FERROUS side ONLY, for the most part, while leaving the CONDUCTIVE side largely untainted by the iron mineralization. On the other hand, most single-frequency platforms, in my dirt, would deteriorate fairly rapidly in terms of ID with depth, such that once you reach 6" to 7" depth on a coin-type target, the machine ID would suggest a ferrous target (i.e. the iron in the dirt would "pull" the ID down into the ferrous range). But, with FBS, you would ONLY see this deterioration in ID on in the ferrous ID number, NOT the conductive ID number. That's why moving from single freq. to FBS was a game changer for me, many years back...

And now, what you described about "primary frequency" and "secondary frequencies," where the secondary frequencies' jobs are to deal with "other things," related to target ID, such as dealing with ground minerals, etc., makes COMPLETE sense to me in light of what I observed with the Explorer. It all makes sense now!

Obviously, something similar must be happening with Multi-IQ, it's just not as clear/obvious when you don't have the FE number there to see the VDI deterioration (which is, I presume, occurring on the "FE side" of things similar to what occurred with FBS).

I am SO glad to finally have a mathematical/scientific confirmation of what I suspected/sensed was going on, but didn't know the "whys and wherefores."

Steve

LCPM......... I consider the Deus-2 & Manticore the top simultaneous multi-frequency platforms out there. Because the two are so close in overall performance............it then becomes a 'brand favored' choice.
In medium (or higher) mineralization dirt......... I still lean towards the Tarsacci MDT. , . , . , . , . which is neither SMF or hardly VLF.

steveg....... yes!!! In fact...... when you push a coin even deeper into bad dirt...... you will see Manticore Multi-IQ+...retain the same/correct VDI numerical ID; yet, the ID number will become a 'negative' ID number...... but still the same 2-digit ID. The iron in the dirt becomes the trump-card; yet, the 2-digit ID for the non-ferrous item will still retain // hold-on..... for a while longer. (albeit....a negative ....but same 2-digit ID).

NASA-Tom,

Interesting additional information -- that the way you can see this same "effect" in the M-IQ platform if the ID going from positive to negative...but still retaining the "right" number...

Fascinating!

Steve

This is a hugely important/practical insight.

Chris

I'm just glad this information...is of some help.

steveg....... I (primarily) see this phenomenon on the wet-salt beach. Example: A clad quarter ID's as a '+88'. If the quarter is about 10" deep.......and I don't have the coil 'centered' over the quarter........ it'll ID as a '-88' (negative 88). If the quarter is 18" or 19" deep....... it'll nearly always ID's as a -88. At this point.....the signal is very narrow-width.......very weak/faint........pinpoint location does not shift. . . . . . . and it's fairly obvious: the target is a deep non-ferrous item.
Inland dirt (with mineralization) should produce this same phenomena .......to a reasonably similar degree. The more mineralization........the quicker this phenomenon will occur.
Then there comes a point whereby....... the mineralization (or......in my case........the wet-salt) .,.,.,.,.,.,., the signal from the mineralization (or salt) is TOO strong/overpowering......... and the ID (negative or otherwise) will bounce all over the place. ID = all bets are 'OFF'.

I am glad I picked a topic that got some interest. Tom had mentioned two multi frequency machines that he feels works the best.
I come from a long line of detectors that span over 20 plus years, including Toms Cz3. I was a tester for the impact and really liked that detector. After the deus and beating cancer, I returned to detecting and got the legend. Not convinced it was the best choice. Most of the areas I have hunted over and over again seem to turn up no new finds. So I was hoping the legend would uncover some masked targets. So far it seems I have cleaned them out.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

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If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

It seems to me....the Impact unmasks slightly better than Legend. . . . . even when the recovery speed is high. Recovery speed does not seem to be the magic answer. (Other engineering factors come into play).

My opinion i go with the Nox 900, you get two coils and Coiltek makes a array other coils, I hunted the street behind me this summer to find mercury dimes, indian head, and 3 rings, war nickles and other silver coins. I also have the Xterra pro but have not used it since I got the Nox 900. I also plan on using it for prospecting in the black hills of Sd, my air tests on small gold is great.

Greg......... have you played with Prospecting Mode on EQX-900? ((( Don't do this indoors!)))

Trucker_Greg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My opinion i go with the Nox 900, you get two coil
> s and Coiltek makes a array other coils, I hunted
> the street behind me this summer to find mercury d
> imes, indian head, and 3 rings, war nickles and ot
> her silver coins. I also have the Xterra pro but h
> ave not used it since I got the Nox 900. I also pl
> an on using it for prospecting in the black hills
> of Sd, my air tests on small gold is great.


That's my findings on the Equinox 900 also Gregg (does great on small gold--with the 6" coil).---I have the Coiltek 5X10", Minelab 6" & 11" coils for it and (of the three) I actually prefer the 6" coil.

When you say Tom recovery speed is high, do you mean setting a faster recovery in iron. And have you tested the iron filter in heavy iron with the recovery at setting that slows it to see targets mixed in with iron. What are your thoughts about the Nox 900, deus 2 and the other multi from minelab

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Yes...... Recovery speeds of 7 or 8 on Legend.
There is a fundimental electronic architect engineering design error with Legend........ that prevents me from graduating into the real-World with Legend. . . . . . . . so I cannot fully answer your iron/filter/recovery-speed question.

EQX-900........ superior to EQX-800.....and by a fairly large margin.
Manticore....... superior to EQX-900.....and by a fairly large margin.
Deus-2........... superior to Deus-1........and by a very large margin.
Deus-2........... comparable to Manticore; yet, Manticore takes a slight lead. It then becomes a brand-particular choice for the user.

Just subscribe to your channel Low Boy.
Fisher CZ's still my fav.machine. My legend does not impresse me much in the words of Shania Twain,hotty gal. But does the CZ's 2 freq.of 5&15 work the same as the new stuff? You would think the CZ's would be out done in depth but my Cz 6a with the 5" coil is super deep and better in trash than anything I have a Legend,540 Vanquish, T2 se ltd and T2+ and about 10 more machines. Gamma 6000 is a great coin shooter and the Eurotek pro too.
Hey I went off track but glad to see you hunt'in again.

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.

Thanks

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

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If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!