Rutus Versa First Hunts & Thoughts

I received my Versa on 10/02. Only 12 days shipping from the UK. After a few hours of use on the bench & in the test garden it became very comfortable and surprisingly familiar. The UI is fairly simple & efficient, the in ground performance seems to be on par with my other top machines. The headphones are probably the best I have ever used. On to the field...
My first hunt with the Versa was on a red dirt site next to one of the oldest roads in my County, dating back to the mid 1830's. A Republic of Texas blockhouse site in close by. My site was an early camping spot as it boarders a nice creek. There was also a later 19th Century house there. I have dug a lot of nice relics here, some very early. The ground has a lot of Iron, mostly small to mid size. I have dug most of the big iron out already. A 2 wire powerline runs thru the middle of where I was hunting. I used the smaller, DD23(9") coil. I hunted awhile in each of the motion modes; Park, Field and Beach. I left Disc at 0 but adjusted around on the various settings, Reaction, Masking, Iron Volume & Sensitivity. EMI is somewhat problematic in Multifrequecy here but increasing the Versa's Masking control helped greatly and did not seem to hinder in ground performance. The EMI Preview screen is very interesting & useful. I was able to pick a Single frequency with ease and run it almost wide open with lower masking levels. The ground changes a good bit on this site but it was easy enough to monitor & adjust the GB as needed. The Versa ran very stable once dialed in to the conditions. Falsing from small iron was not a problem. The Versa handles this perhaps better than any of my other detectors. Iron of all sizes was readily identifiable. Big & deep iron was easy to tell. It wasn't until after my hunt that I realized I had not been fooled by a single nail. Co Located target performance was very good. Most all of the targets I dug had iron either in the hole or very close under the coil. Some were quite small like the 7/16" brass washer and the 1" long .84 gram piece of Silver watch bezel and plated brass zipper pull. The real eyeopener was a large iron signal that had a consistent high tone with it. I dug out a 2" pipe size Iron Tee valve with an iron pipe stub on one end and a brass coupler on the other. That is about as co located as it gets. The other surprising target was a smaller mixed signal that came up to be the small handle artifact in the photo. It is embossed brass around an iron core & marked, "Eagle Pencil Co. USA P". As best I can research, it is the handle to a pencil sharpening knife sold by that firm. It would have been included in someone's writing box. The other notable find was the strap end of a brass spur. The second one I have found on this site. The brass frame is from an old box camera. A good first hunt with the Versa.
My second hunt, the next morning, was on a close by but different site. Also on the old road and where a house stood from 1860 until the mid 1950s. The ground here is the same red Maghemite soil and it is even more dense with small iron bits that are more decomposed. The iron here will false badly. There is also even worse EMI. This site has been hunted by others forever. I first detected it about 1998. It is a tough site but I have managed some nice old finds here. I did get fooled at first by the small iron crating nails & bits, trying to dig iffy signals. The photo shows some examples. That is the only way to find anything here. Running Beach with it's Bottle Cap filter helped on the iron falses but the EMI was crippling the Multi frequency. I previewed the EMI screen and ended up on single 7.8 kHz in Field mode for most of the hunt. I have 2 test coins buried here at 6 inches. They are hard targets for all of my detectors. The Versa was able to see them about as well as the others, meaning very iffy. They are not sanitized targets. I am still searching for a way to open this site up. More testing is needed. I did end up with 2 decent finds that I am sure I had been over multiple times with other units. A .32 cal Rim Fire case stamped U for Union Metallic Cartridge and a 1945 P war Nickle.
Over all I am pleased with the Versa. It has very good potential and some almost unique features. The Dual modes and All Metal mode will need cleaner ground to use. Rutus is already working on an update to improve & add features.
I now realize I do not know how to post any photos. They are over on DP forum.

Chris

Impressive review. Now you need to add a Tarsassi.

I don't feel I understand the Tarsacci to do it justice.

Chris

Really good report Chris! I love hearing your 'take' on the performance of the unit.
Yes....... I too......would really like to see how the Tarsacci handles your dirt conditions......and how you would run it.
I would categorize your mineralization level as 'middle of the "HIGH" ' range of the mineralization scale. (((Due to SMF struggling to ID a 6" deep coin))).

NASA Tom, My Tarsacci is certainly no slouch. It handles the ground very well, no matter how bad. My difficulty is in heavy small iron, the falsing is very tiresome even with modest sensitivity & threshold levels. Blacksand ON will quiet things down but it seems to kill the depth. I normally set up for heavy iron sites in Disc mode at -30 so the Iron tone gives context to the falses. In cleaner ground that has only bigger iron the Tarsacci will shine on co located deep targets. It really is surprising what it can see other machines can't. I just keep trying to make it perform outside of it's arena. Bed of nails is not it's thing. I am hoping the Rutus Versa, with it's Multi Filtering and Dual Tone modes might bridge the gap between the Tarsacci and my other detectors.

Chris

Chris ..... that is EXACTLY the kind of data we need!.....and is most (engineering) helpful.
I find the Tarsacci to do quite well in carpets of nails........ BUT........ if I added fairly heavy mineralization.,.,.,.,.,. the equation/resultant would change!
Just curious........ have you tried Salt Mode with....... and without........ Black sand?

NASA Tom, All, except one of my "Carpet of nail" sites are in Maghemite soil. And yes, the Tarsacci is easier to decipher without the added minerals because the TID is more reliable. The Tones are reliable in any dirt if set up correctly until the target gets too weak. In minerals, the ground will swallow the target & report as a consistent -30. I always Ground Balance first, then Salt balance. If I am trying to hunt in heavy nails I will sometimes intentionally run Salt up to the mid 40s. I have used Black sand at times to settle the machine if the ground is rusty & conductive. Black sand On will also help with EMI. I try not to use it because my testing consistently shows a loss of depth. I have other machines that are excellent shallow Iron sifters. The Legend, Vista X, MXT and Anfibio. Perhaps the new Versa. I still want to look down thru & past the iron trash at more depth. Perhaps the Versa will be a step toward that. The Tarsacci's extremely low Iron bias is a two edged sword. What makes it without Peer in cleaner mineralized ground is a bottle neck to me in nail beds.
I am not displeased with the Tarsacci by any means. It is a special unit and will always have a place for my type of sites. I will continue to use & learn it. Thank you for all your input & output since you first announced it here on this forum. Without you & Dimitar & Keith Southern's help I would barely have a clue how to run the Tarsacci. That being said, I still feel Dimitar's approach of letting users learn by struggling without clearer direction from him is limiting to everyone. Maybe there are no clear cuts with the MDT. It is a different animal for sure.

Chris

Chris,

Thanks for the Rutus info. When possible, let us know your observations on the intelligence of the audio.

Chris........ yes. It is a 'trade-off' ...in order to gain superior performance in low target areas..........VS..........carpets of nails performance.

BUT......... this brings up another thought. Why must we humans have BURNED....permanently into our brains AND 'accept': The entire concept/premise of: "trade-off". --- ""In order to 'gain this'........you must 'forfeit that'."" --- "You can't have both". --- "That's just life". -_-_-_ Why?!?! WHY, WHY, WHY??? This is FULL/COMPLETE limitation/incarceration.........and...........acceptance of mediocrity.

BUT =

Decentralization rationalization examples:
Your car CAN go fast...........and............CAN ascertain good gas milage..............and...............DOES have air-conditioning.
We CAN put you on the Moon...............and................CAN bring you safely back to Earth.
Your detector CAN detect metal............and................HAS ID ability.

CHANGE THE MINDSET.........AND = CHANGE HISTORY! ((((With the end-resultant being: technological advancement of humankind)))).

Dave, The audio on the Versa is very good. I have just now set up my first Custom Tone profile using 6 tones as the base model with a ugly sounding tone bin for Al pull tabs and a high tone for Nickels. The next Custom tone profile is going to be modeled on the Legend's 60 tone(Full Tones) selection. That should show me the quality of the Versa's vocabulary. If it is as good as the Legend I will be happy. I think it will be.
NASA Tom, I agree about mindsets. That is why I keep pushing the Tarsaccci & myself. It is so good at identifying Ferrous/Non Ferrous by audio. I have dug quite a few surprisingly deep, nice targets IN the nails, but each of those deeper targets were larger than a 50 Cent piece. Nothing really smaller that my VLFs would not have alerted on too. Dimitar will not seem to budge on making a small coil. I assume that it would not be viable for the MDT platform which seems to need a large snapshot of the ground matrix to give contrast to any non ferrous targets. I will keep trying to better understand the MDT's operation and keep trying to make it perform for my sites. I really like the machine in spite of it being a puzzle at times. I think it is female.

Chris

If we talk about how VERSA works in the field with a lot of iron... So the New VERSA Software will be another "Generational Shift" Upward, even in the area of even better discrimination of iron... which, however, will not have a negative effect on separation... on the contrary ...you will be able to better identify and target a good target in the iron... The new software will also be signed by a greatly improved audio response to signaling targets + as well as improved VDI at targets...

Another Plus of the new VERSA Software will be improved response of the detector to very deep signals...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2023 02:55PM by EL NINO.

Point 1.. Improved Discrimination of iron: I specially test the new VERSA software at high frequencies of 30-40 KHZ - which, as we know, is a difficult frequency for the correct identification of different types of old iron... So the discrimination is tested under the worst conditions...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2023 02:51PM by EL NINO.

Point 2... improved Audio VERSA= intuitive Audio response to targets...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2023 03:20PM by EL NINO.

No matter how good ID is........ when ID becomes completely ineffective in bad dirt. , . , . , . , . , . , we are back at ground-zero. (VLF/SMF can be rendered useless).
The Tarsacci is the First Generation (first genuine attempt) at working in bad dirt.....to be able to have some form of ID. Albeit crude; yet, functional.
(((Working on 2nd Gen)))

I wonder how Keith S. is progressing with Tarsacci....VS..... carpets-of-nails?

El Nino, That is very encouraging news.

NASA Tom, I very much agree. I understand & take into consideration that the MDT 8000 is 1st Generation, and I feel a very successful advancement. I re read some of my field notes from the past year or so, and confirmed that the Tarsacci has performed very well for me, even in heavy nails. It will see the mid size targets a VLF cannot. I want it to see a SMALL target at 8+" in & below those heavy nails. I will look forward to Dimitar's next generation. I too would like to have an up date from the Gentleman from Georgia!
NASA Tom, we got to get Wally to fix the multi posting problem. It will discourage people.

Back to the Versa.. I took a few hours yesterday afternoon & hunted the less "busy" edges of the same area with the larger stock DD 28 coil. I used similar settings as before with some adjustment El Nino suggested to me. Namely setting the Hot Rock adjustment to +1. This has noticeable improved deeper target acquisition, tone and TID. It has not affected stability, which is very very good. I also have some Test Targets planted at this site since 06/2023, so not really even settled in yet. With the Hot Rock set to +1, Reaction 3, Masking adjusted high enough to mitigate EMI in order to run near Max sensitivity, my 6 & 8" coins report fair to good, depending on size. A 2.5"X3" brass clock frame at 10" hits hard. This is in Field Multi & single 10.8 kHz which is what I hunted in this trip. More testing is needed. I found several more composite targets(lead headed nail, thin tin cap with iron stud) that I am sure I had scanned over before with my other machines. Also a fired Round Ball, Mason jar cap & shotshell head that should have already been found. All were iron compromised. Each hunt, I will dig interesting sounding big iron. This trip it included an iron band for a wooded wagon wheel. It was 16+ " down in the red clay. That will work for me. I have not even really hunted in Dual mode yet. I look forward to the update from Rutus.

Chris

Rutus released new software for the Versa & I updated my unit Saturday 12/02. The Wi Fi update process was very easy & efficient. The new software is NC, version 2.44. The NC stands for New Concept, The detector's behavior & performance in Iron is on a different level than before. It is hard for me to gage the level of improvement yet. The Versa's iron handling & unmasking was very, very good before NC. It is now even better but I have not run it enough yet to know how or why.  There is something very different going on. The update included quite a few new setting adjustments. Some are aimed at Iron/mineral performance, quite a few are audio related. The unit is now much more flexible & customizable for both the operator & ground/site conditions. It will take some time for me to get a good handle on this revised platform.

 Meanwhile, I have about 5 hours in my test gardens and 4+ hours hunt time on the NC 2.44. Both hunts where on my favorite red dirt mineral site with the history back to the 1840s. I have hunted this site for almost 4 years with every machine I have. In fact I purchased the Vista X & Tarsacci for this & similar sites. I have done very well in spite of the tough conditions. I posted above my first hunts here with the Versa & introductory software V1.74. The new NC is going to make the Versa what I had hoped for, if I can master it.
Using the new NC software, hunting with the smaller DD23 coil, Park mode Multi FL(low conductors) I dug 25 additional non ferrous targets. Most were small or very small, some were larger but at pretty good depth. ALL had plenty of nails/iron in the hole & under the coil. Several were nice keepers. I also dug some nice bigger iron relics that were fairly deep. The Iron handling/intelligence is very good but, like the Tarsacci & Vista, it will take some time to really learn. It really reaches down deep into the Iron range to pick out good targets.
A lot more testing & hunting needs to be done but the Versa is doing it on this tough site.

Chris

Some of the UK users of the Versa are reporting that the Versa is not that deep a unit can you confirm this ? or are your findings different ? is the Versa on a par with the Manticore Deus 2 or Legend depth wise ?

sanjuro, What I have observed in testing & hunting with the Versa running the introductory V1.71 software is in mild to medium mineralized soil, the Versa and the Legend are very close when both are set to similar settings. They can both be very deep machines. In higher Maghemite soils the Versa gave slightly better target response at depth IF you adjusted the Hot Rock filter into the Positive range. But even then, the Legend and Versa are very close in performance.
With the new NC 2.44 software for the Versa, my limited testing is showing a noticeable improvement in target acquisition & resolution at depth in higher mineralized soil. I have not done any testing on low-medium mineral soils with the updated software yet.
The above all pertains to Motion Disc mode. The Versa has Mixed mode capability and it's Static All Metal channel IS deeper than Disc. This capability is one of the main reasons I got the Versa. That and hoped for improved performance in high mineral soil. I have not been disappointed. The Versa's performance will only improve as I learn & master all the capabilities the new NC software has added.

Chris

Thanks for the review, JCR--got me interested now...sounds like a very sophisticated machine. cjc

[youtu.be]

VERSA on the TopDigin test field..on New NC software 2.37



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2023 10:00AM by EL NINO.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2023 09:51AM by EL NINO.

Any word from Rutus about updating the Atrex?

cjc, it is a very interesting detector. Very straight forward on the surface, turn on & go if you want. But like the Legend, it is very good with default settings AND has the adjustability to really push the performance to a higher level. It is also like the Tarsacci MDT 8000. Not in how it operates, but in that there is something special & different going on behind the scenes. And like the MDT, it is going to take some time to get a handle on it's capabilities. The update to NC software has made a noticeable push in the performance envelope. I'm having a lot of fun(and success) learning it.

Dave, The Owner/maker of Rutus stated that the advancements of the Versa platform would be put into an update for the Atrex as far as possible at some point in time. There are some limitation due to frequency range etc... The "Underground Passion" video link that El Nino posted above makes mention of this & gives a good explanation of the new Versa NC software changes.

Chris

Very informative video by the designer of the Rutus Versa about the new firmware NC 2.44 the final part of the video shows the new feature Small Target Boost which helps with low conductors in red highly mineralized soil.
If you are sitting on the fence thinking about purchasing a Versa for your bad soil check it out.

[www.youtube.com]