Anyone try an XP Deus?

I'm not really the kinda guy that gets all hyped up over the 'latest & greatest', 'must have' detector (I'm using a pre Bounty Hunter CZ-3D & LOVE it), but, after researching the XP Deus, I must say I am REALLY impressed. Has anyone ever tried one out - or even better, actually hunted with one? Supposedly, they are deeper than the e-trac's, faster than a F75, almost as light as an Ace 250, no wires on the unit at all, a detachable control pad thats the size of a smart phone, a back-up control pad in the wireless earphones, it folds up for traveling ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNND it's a multi-purpose machine (beach included). So, here's the million dollar question...

Expensive price aside, why aren't these things flying off the shelves here?

GPX's go for $4,000 to $5,000. This unit sells for $2,300. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Just goes to finally prove that America IS lagging behind other nations. I'm mean, why couldn't WE come up with a machine this revolutionary?!

P.S. - Would love to see a review on this one, Tom.

Forgot to add...

One of the biggest problems is with the detector manufacturers themselves. They have to continually come out with new products to keep income flowing. However, if they truly DID come out with something totally cutting edge, really unique & revolutionary, they'd be screwing themselves - nobody would need to ever buy another detector. So instead, they keep tweaking/enhancing older models, building a better mouse trap & come out with a rapid succession of products with each one being MINUTELY better than the last. This gives them ample room to have a constant flow of 'better units'. The downside being that these 'better units' are normally a LOT more expensive yet only a hair different/better than the previous model. Example; Garrett comes out with a $500 detector that can detect 14" on coin sized targets. Beautiful. Great. Perfect. Problem is, where do they go from there? Nobody would be excited if they released a new detector capable of an extra half inch. MUCH smarter to give a little bit at a time & 'milk the market'. Get my point?

It's all about the dollars & keeping TRUE innovation tightly controlled - so the suckers (us) will just keep making them richer & richer



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2011 12:01AM by njnydigger.

There is a thread somewhere here where the Deus was discussed.
2 things will hold it back
1 Price
2 Not made for US market, no dealer base, no repair base here in the States.

I have to respectfully disagree.
I think metal detectors are about as good as they will get.
In other words, they are not holding back.
It wasn't always this way however as Whites held back on tech advances back in the 80's.

On one hand, we are fortunate to have the tech. we have.
Think about what these machines have to do....look down in the ground, do so and get some depth
then hopefully distinguish between ferrous and non-ferrous items.

The only way we will get significant performance is to ditch VLF or modify it some way that hasn't
been done so far.
The reason I think this is we already have many years using the same tech. yet no great break-throughs.
What we have is what we have.

Steve(MS) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a thread somewhere here where the Deus
> was discussed.
> 2 things will hold it back
> 1 Price
> 2 Not made for US market, no dealer base, no
> repair base here in the States.
>
> I have to respectfully disagree.
> I think metal detectors are about as good as they
> will get.
> In other words, they are not holding back.
> It wasn't always this way however as Whites held
> back on tech advances back in the 80's.
>
> On one hand, we are fortunate to have the tech. we
> have.
> Think about what these machines have to do....look
> down in the ground, do so and get some depth
> then hopefully distinguish between ferrous and
> non-ferrous items.
>
> The only way we will get significant performance
> is to ditch VLF or modify it some way that hasn't
> been done so far.
> The reason I think this is we already have many
> years using the same tech. yet no great
> break-throughs.
> What we have is what we have.

Bear in mind, Steve, that I am not just talking about depth. Let's assume for a second that the Deus got roughly the same depth as a Minelab or any one of the other major brands. How would you explain the other features the Deus has (which are still quite advanced & cutting-edge) that we don't have over here? The lack of cables, the detachable control 'box' that's the size of a cell phone, ultra light weight, etc., etc., etc. Why don't WE have designs similar to this? Because the manufacturers would be stupid to produce them. Again, it comes down to gradual & minute advancement plus ever rising prices for the consumer. This is the math they use to become so wealthy. Sure, they still put out very good machines, but, where's the GREAT machines?? Where are our Deus'???

Have to agree with NjNy in regards to incremental improvements being done in a purposed methodology. If you observe closely, the mfg's almost begrudgingly release improvements, and thats if another mfg has come up with a incremental improvement that may impact their competitors sales. Is it a bad thing. Yes & no. A company needs to have a steady flow of income to survive and continuous repeat sales are their lifeblood. Is it fair to the detectorist. No, because we have to pony up some serious money in the long run to keep up with the competition (fellow detectorists). And buying detectors like candy is not a option most of us can or want to do.
All the Deus is, is a metal detector packaged like a cell phone. And the ability to miniaturize detector electronics technology has been around for years. Easily replicated by the detector mfg's if they wanted to do it. Deus did it. Watch and see. An american mfg will replicate Deus's packaging, and then suddenly all the other mfg's will miracuously have the ability to produce Deus clones.
What american detector mfg's need to be aware of is that the chronic purposeful restricting of innovation by doleing it out, while creating a steady income flow, can very easily turn around and bite them on the ass. Look at Minelab, and how well they have done. They got the jump on american mfg's. Both in timing & patents. Do you thing that the engineers in our american detector companies never investigated FBS technology? Of course they did. But it was easier to cling to VLF and not be innovative.
I think Dave Johnson is a good example to use. The man is brilliant. White's didn't want to utilize his concepts fully (innovation) so off Dave went to find a place that would. Look at First Texas now. They have put a serious dent in White's market. The owner of FTP took a risk (implemented innovation) on Dave's knowledge. I like White's machine's/service very much, but I think they are the biggest offenders when it comes to doleing it out. And they have been playing catch-up for a few years now because of it.
NjNy mentions rising prices......yes they have risen........and with many machines the current price is not justified for the minor improvements the detectorist gets. However, in some cases, you are getting more detector for the money today than in the past. I basically paid the same price for my White's Silver Eagle in 1994 as I did for my Teknetics Omega. The Omega is far superior. Those 1994 dollars were worth far more, and harder to earn, than 2011 dollars. So in my mind, the prices have actually dropped in terms of real dollar costs if one purchases wisely.
Just my 2 cents/opinion.

Steve(MS) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a thread somewhere here where the Deus
> was discussed.
> 2 things will hold it back
> 1 Price
> 2 Not made for US market, no dealer base, no
> repair base here in the States.
>


Actually they are working on U.S. dealerships now. Not sure how they'll handle repairs, but it is a very interesting and apparently very capable machine once learned. It's about as innovative as they come, fully taking advantage of current computer technology, as they should be. If it does make it in the U.S., perhaps it will promote like innovation here, it's a win-win for everyone if it does IMHO.

HH,
Brian

njnydigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not really the kinda guy that gets all hyped
> up over the 'latest & greatest', 'must have'
> detector (I'm using a pre Bounty Hunter CZ-3D &
> LOVE it), but, after researching the XP Deus, I
> must say I am REALLY impressed. Has anyone ever
> tried one out - or even better, actually hunted
> with one? Supposedly, they are deeper than the
> e-trac's, faster than a F75, almost as light as an
> Ace 250,

I am not living in USA, but i own a Xp Deus and what are you smoking there.. Deus is way lighter that a Garrett ace 250(2.7lbs) vs Xp Deus( around 2.3lbs). I am really liking my Deus, it work great in any situation, except water hunting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2011 09:56AM by Etsija82.

Very interested in this thread. Is there any published info/testing regarding depth of this machine? In variable soil? Love to hear about this if available.

Interesting mindset(s)/thought-process(s).

More food-for-thought:

If Dave Johnson could 'sweep' the market with a revolutionary (vs 'evolutionary') product........ and NOT be concerned about taking his proverbial 'piece' of the pie; rather, taking the WHOLE pie.......... do you think he would perform such........... paradigm shift...or not?

If the "peoples" start to realize the order-of-magnitude "value" of "unmasking & depth"......... THEN.......... the Mfr's may start to quantify/qualify/justify (through the epiphany of '''realization''') ---sound, financial vested return--- and.... 'profitable' to venture.... in this direction.

This goes to show what we have at least could have been packaged much different with the speed at which tech is improving. We shouldnt have to be swinging detectors that weigh a ton. BUT... dont know if i want a detector the size of an Iphone either. Even stright shafts.... come on guys why do we have to buy them from after market people. Its crazy to buy a machine .... and straight shaft at the same time from a dealer. Isnt that ridiculous? I think we need some joint effort from the computer, detector, and electronic area to put something together rather than one or two men out there. Masking has been a repeated subject that either cant or wont be addressed.

Dew

Dew its not just the straight shaft, its also arm cuffs , batterys, bungies , coils and plenty of other stuff.
A lot of after market money going out because thy did not get it right too begin with.

Tom - Oh please go on. I always get the feeling that you are not telling all ;-) I really wonder if Dave is going to release the discriminating pulse machine this year as it's been talked about forever. I don't think more depth is what is needed right now, I mean 12" to 14" is enough. But to be able to find coins in heavy iron better, that would be a windfall for whichever manufacturer does that and since we have been doing VLF detecting for years and it is marginally better, I'd say we need a new technology - outside the box. I think the E-trac and Minelabs in general did a bit of that. The V3i with 3 multiple frequencies is also a step in the right direction but I think what Minelab did was really outside the box.

The Deus is very very popular in Europe due to the heavy iron I imagine. It is also particularly popular with older folks due to the weight.

I was down to the Deus and V3i and went with the V3i because of it's flexibility and crazy programming ability. I would have gotten an E-trac if it was better balanced or a bit lighter.

As far as depth, from what I have read and seen, the Deus is not where an E-trac or V3i is (but it has a smaller coil). I do see people getting larger coins down to 10" or so. But the incredible separation is what is needed in Europe, not so much the depth. From my experience, those small thin coins don't displace very deeply most of the time. I found a two hundred year old one today that was 2" deep and that is typical for me. Deus has added a recent ferrous tool with an update. Hey, damn good idea and I wish my V3i could update over USB. Got to hand it to XP, we may be thanking them hand over foot for pushing something new. I mean they can add more analysis tools if they'd like and all you need to do is plug your detector in.

I think with smart phones, it's a logical step to be able to use one as an interface if not the horsepower. They are computers, we just might need some other power, like multiple processors (which the Deus doesn't have) to handle multiple simultaneous frequencies. Or of course you can do what Minelab does, which seems to be pretty damn good. I look forward to Minelab's next machine.

I should add, though I have never used one, that Garrett has that imaging technology. The coils have 3 rings, one more than normal. So that is truly different and it seems one might be able to get more information from the target by adding another variable. I think this might open up another window of discrimination perhaps???

earthmansurfer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom - Oh please go on. I always get the feeling
> that you are not telling all ;-) I really wonder
> if Dave is going to release the discriminating
> pulse machine this year as it's been talked about
> forever.

WHAT!!! A discriminating pulse machine?! That sounds incredible Yes Tom, please do tell. Earthman, where did you hear about this unit?

njnydigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> earthmansurfer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tom - Oh please go on. I always get the feeling
> > that you are not telling all ;-) I really
> wonder
> > if Dave is going to release the discriminating
> > pulse machine this year as it's been talked
> about
> > forever.
>
> WHAT!!! A discriminating pulse machine?! That
> sounds incredible Yes Tom, please do tell.
> Earthman, where did you hear about this unit?

He's been working on it for a while and he'd thought it would be released by now from what I remember. I think Tom mentioned it here but it's been said before. It's not a secret. I can't remember where else I've seen it.

Not a lot of disc needed.... just give us a notch... just one little notch at the iron point. I mean on the beach thats all we use anyway..... then we would get greedy and want tones wouldnt we. Just never satisfied i guess..... we'd sure like to know what it is before we dig it as 12 inches or more as well. Wouldnt that be nice?

Dew

I don't own a Deus, nor will I.

I have swung one a few times and it felt too nose heavy due to the coil weight, and too flimsy to use in wheat stubble.

Many UK users have had problems with broken cam locks, these are not sturdy machines.

If cam locks become loose (not broken) users have been told to slide a thin piece of plastic in so it remains tighter.

Other UK users that have bought the large coil have been amazed by it, but many have now opted for a Whites or a straight shaft to make the balance more acceptable.

All of these to me are unacceptable for a machine of that kind of money.

To date, I will continue with my F75 and Troy X5.

Just my view you understand.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2011 08:30PM by Dino- UK.

Yes, the Deus is different, lightweight and somewhat programmable.
Yet I haven't seen UK take it above even the US detectors.
As Dino reports, it has its negatives.
They will be very high priced....I don't see many Americans buying them.....if they are in their right mind....
Where's the battery in it?...that looks like a bad design to me.
I don't see that it is that much different than what we have and there are still
many in the UK that favor the XP Goldmaxx over it.
In fact from what I have read, many dumped their Goldmaxx in favor of the T2 or F75.

Real advancement is depth, ID and unmasking...anything else is frills.

As the rumor went...if I recall correctly, it was a multi-frq that FT was working on, not necessarily a pulse
but that would be nicer.....

I still think we are almost at the end of VLF tech..perhaps I will be proven wrong.
And I don't think the brands are holding back...there is too much money to be made at stake
and too many players that might step up with a winner.

Like I said above, real advancement is depth, ID and unmasking...the rest is frills.
I will leave it to others to buy the frills.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If Dave Johnson could 'sweep' the market with a
> revolutionary (vs 'evolutionary') product........

Would or could?

Steve(MS) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Real advancement is depth, ID and
> unmasking...anything else is frills.
>

While I tend to agree with this, they need to get the other details right too - like weight, ergonomics, screen angles (why do I have to be a contortionist to view the display on half of my machines?), reasonable battery life (love that the newer FT machines can get like 45 hours from 4 AA batteries!!).

I just recently started learning the E-trac. After being a loyal Fisher user for the past almost four years, I have to say using the E-trac is an enlightening experience from a multitude of angles. Love how much programability it has. Will you always need it, obviously some people will not, that's why there's a market for the Safari. The Whites V3i is similar, with the new scaled down version. A lot of people thought the V3i was gimmicky, or loaded with "frills" when it came out, but as time goes on I see people are making good use of the additional features afforded on the V3i. One mans frills may be another's tool to get the targets others have missed.

As cheap and fast as microprocessors are now, metal detector manufacturers should be taking full advantage of the advances they afford.

Dave Johnson is not a PI person.

But didn't he tinker with PI before CZ?...perhaps my memory fails me.

BTW to whom it may concern, even if Tom knew anything about a new FT, he couldn't tell it.
Anyone who can get access to that level, must remain silent about designs........

Yes......... he had 'doings' with the Fisher Impulse; yet, this is not his forte............. and will never be.

Looking at it strictly from a performance standpoint, I can't say for sure if you’re going to get anything more from the Deus than you are from the T2 or F75. Maybe some of the Deus users on the UK forums who have experience with Fisher/Tek machines could give more information on that. My reason for choosing the Deus over the F75LTD was due to my concern over how well the Fisher machine would perform in the EMI laden city parks and lots that I hunt. Since I had heard that the Deus handles EMI well, and since they were offering a pretty substantial discount on the detector at that time, I decided to go with the XP machine. No regrets there. The Deus has been great at some of the trashy sites that I hunt and it handles iron very well. So far, depth seems to be on par with my CZ3D. The ability to use different frequencies, set them up under different configurations and cycle through them quickly, makes it a very versatile machine for different targets and hunting conditions. The light weight and wireless headphones make it a pleasure to use. I would recommend it to anyone – just not at the overinflated price that it’s currently selling at. Sooner or later XP will be ready to tackle the US market, then we should see the machine priced more in the Etrac/V3i range. That’s probably where it belongs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2011 06:04AM by mrwilburino.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dave Johnson is not a PI person.

Oops, my bad. I must be confusing him with someone else??? I know I've seen it talked about somewhere as being a project...

You may be thinking of Dave Emery.

The market drives the industry. As a business, I'd much rather sell 50,000 Ace 250's than 500 XP Deus'. Demographics plays a role I would imagine too. The majority of detectorists are older folks who tend to be more traditional--who might be put off on a "smart phone on a stick" detector. Perhaps as the computer generation ages we will see the major manufacturers gravitate towards machines similiar to the Deus.

I would think it might be the reverse............older users would appreciate the lack of excess weight and reduction in strain.

As long as we the people continue to buy rebadged detectors , detector companies will continue to manufacture them ....... The larger detector companies are the Harley Davison of the detector market .... They change the color , and minor changes in the disign , and a few other new parts and minor items , raise the price , and WALLA !!.....a new machine ie born !!.... and we pre order to buy into this entire process ..... Very few compaines have really come out with anything innovative becaue they can rest on their laurels with what they are presently selling ..... We as consumer read the hype , and we sell our A machine to buy a B machine taht is suppose to be better ...... We continue to chase the perfect machine , and it's just not out there ..... We keep ourselves busy buying and selling detectors , and the detector compainies stay in business .... To think that our detectors are computer driven tools , and seeing how computer technology changes daily , the only reason I can see for the lack of advancement on the dtector end would be ......."Why fix it if it ain't broke ?"...... " We can use the same enclosure, the same shaft , the same arm cuff , and just paint it differently , and change the face plate a little bit , and we'll call it ..." ......... It cots companies big money to make a chage or to make something new to put on the marketplace .....Why would they bother if we continue to buy the same ole same ole ? ..... When WE THE CONSUMERS decide that we have had enough of the same ole same ole , then maybe , just maybe , these companies will produce something that we are asking for ......Until then , be happy with the same ole same ole !!..... Hey , we're all still having fun right ? ...... Heck , I'm still THRILLED that NY has not made it mandatory to have an annual permit just to own a Metal Detector anywhere in the state !!!.....Lord knows they've taxed and regulated everything else in this state and have squeezed as much money from WE THE PEOPLE as they possibly can !!.....Jim

Hey synthnut, where u been? Out detecting I hope. How are the etrac and the ATpro working for you? Any news for us?