Fisher new coin detector ?

I was wondering if Fisher will ever come out with a detector that could compete with the Etrac for finding silver coins? It seems that most of their newer models are designed more for relic hunting than coins. Out of all the current and past models produced by Fisher, what would be the model that would come the closest to competeing with the Etrac? Thanks, Mark

You had my hopes up there for a minute, Mark, with the title of your post!

Though I can't vouch for it, I think many would say the CZ-3D is the best Fisher machine for deep silver. I will state up front that I've never seen anyone hunt routinely with a properly calibrated 3D, but aside from the potential that that machine might prove me wrong, I personally have seen nothing that can even come close to out-hunting an E-Trac, if your sole purpose is finding deep silver in a non-mild-soil park-type setting. Others may argue that point, but that's my experience. It is HANDS-DOWN. Minelab Explorer would be second, in my experience, for what that is worth. Maybe the V3i has potential in this specific application. We can argue depth capability and frequency and sensitivity and stuff all day long, but E-Tracs just flat EXCEL in moderately-mild to moderate soil when your sole purpose is finding silver. To me, the proof is in the finds pouch, and that proof consistently leans heavily in the Minelab direction from my own limited experience.

I'd love to see Fisher release that multi-frequency machine tailored and tweaked for maximum deep silver-finding ability, and those threads pop up enough here that I'm sure First Texas is aware of our wants (and aware of the success of their competitor!) Hopefully, this means that Dave J. and company are working on a deep silver coin-killer!

Steve

Fisher is working on a multi-freq platform again (and has been for quite some time)....... mostly to better combat mineralization issues.

Although it doesn't have all the bells and whistles or features for raw depth a CZ coil for coil size will go as deep or in many cases go deeper than a Explorer type units.

Speaking from Experience as I have found deep silver with both.

Unfortunately for older Explorers or CZ's parts are becoming a problem to fix them if they go down..

A younger person planning to stay in the hobby for years would be wise to buy either of a new model with a warranty...CZ hipmoutable and user friendly or Explorer with a learning period and a heavy unit with no good way to body mount...

It's not so much the depth or what ground. It's all about the target ID. Fisher will need to have a machine that : Can tell w IH penny from a zinc. Tell a clad dime from a silver dime from a memorial/wheat penny and so on. The fact that you can pass up a wheat penny or memorial and dig only silver is huge. More silver and less digging. The target structure of the fisher machines are too grouped up. Anything that is flat and round is a coin.

I'm at the point with the ETrac that i dont hunt silver or parks anymore. I just dont get the thrill it used to have. For me to ding in the dirt for silver it would have to be Barber and older.

NASA-Tom --

Thanks much for the update. I expect that if Fisher has gone in the direction of working on a multi-freq. machine, the final product will likely be something that deserves our attention (those of us who deep-silver hunt). This, I feel, is TERRIFIC news -- because if Fisher can (as EZrider mentioned) work to improve ID on this "multi-freq." machine as well (which I would think is a given with a multi-freq. platform), and get that capability to even MEET that of the FBS units (again, just talking about the deep-coin-shooting application) then they have a chance to really take market share away from Minelab, because there are some aspects of detectors that Fisher blows Minelab completely out of the water already (specifically ergonomics/light weight). A machine with the ergonomics of a modern Fisher machine, but with the performance on deep coins that truly can compete with, or exceed, that of the the FBS units? I'm IN!!

By the way, Dan, I agree with you. RAW depth, a Fisher machine can go deeper than an FBS unit, at least in some cases. That is blasphemy in some circles, but is simply true, in my experience. As much as my Explorer excels, for me and my soil, in finding silver, it IS NOT any deeper (again, RAW depth, NOT "effective" depth), and in fact may even be a bit LESS deep, than my F70 was...let ALONE an F75 LTD/SE.

Steve

Indeed in the hands of a skilled operator many excellent detectors out there comes to mind and many could argue why their unit is best so my advice use what works for you and what you have confidence in..

Basically its all about the nut behind the wheel...

Life is all about challenges and take the challenge away and the hobby would not be fun anymore and if someone did build a unit better than sliced bread unit that would tell you its a gold ring or a 15 inch seated dime something would be lost...Heck just my lowly opinion for what its worth....

I maybe new to the metal detecting world about 5 years into it, but I owned a CZ-3D 1121 and sold it for a MInelab Safari for it's FBS, Thinking I would find more silver coins. Didn't have much luck with the Safari, but just found and bought CZ-3D 1021 and took it to a park and found more silver coins and silver jewelry in one day with the 1021 than I found with with any other detector I owned. Maybe just luck, but I would never make the same mistake twice by selling my 1021 for any other detector out there. Just my experience, nothing is better than a CZ-3D made by Fisher !!!! Thanks for creating the best metal detector out there Tom !!!

Dave, David and John (FTP/Fisher) are NOT 'chasing' or 'targeting' ANYONE!

How do you differentiate/delineate a silver Half Dime from a wheat penny? (Especially in somewhat mineralized ground....... or slightly masked conditions).

Also...... a corroded (or early) wheat penny,,,,,,, a mildly corroded Indian Head,,,,,, or a corroded zinc penny........ will give identical ID's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2011 03:45AM by NASA-Tom.

So true Tom.


NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dave, David and John (FTP/Fisher) are NOT
> 'chasing' or 'targeting' ANYONE!
>
> How do you differentiate/delineate a silver Half
> Dime from a wheat penny? (Especially in somewhat
> mineralized ground....... or slightly masked
> conditions).
>
> Also...... a corroded (or early) wheat
> penny,,,,,,, a mildly corroded Indian Head,,,,,,
> or a corroded zinc penny........ will give
> identical ID's.

Heck a Whites XLT from the early nineties probably gives the best ID of any detector I ever owned and one wonders
are we going backwards as even a top of the line detectors of today will call a pre 1983 penny a dime while a XLT in most cases once you learn the ID numbers will be able to tell you with a few of the pennies being called a dime.
Also the Ergonomics and screen replacement with a simple peel off is far superior not to mention D.C. Phase which measures the ground mineralization. Never used their newest V3i but if its along the same lines after a learning period must be head and shoulders above the competition..We talk about all the other manufacturers but seems like not to many Whites fans frequent the forum.

Dan-Pa. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heck a Whites XLT from the early nineties probably
> gives the best ID of any detector I ever owned and
> one wonders
> are we going backwards as even a top of the line
> detectors of today will call a pre 1983 penny a
> dime while a XLT in most cases once you learn the
> ID numbers will be able to tell you with a few of
> the pennies being called a dime.
> Also the Ergonomics and screen replacement with a
> simple peel off is far superior not to mention
> D.C. Phase which measures the ground
> mineralization. Never used their newest V3i but if
> its along the same lines after a learning period
> must be head and shoulders above the
> competition..We talk about all the other
> manufacturers but seems like not to many Whites
> fans frequent the forum.

Hey Dan,

I have the V3i but am not getting American coins of course. But for example, though a Quarter and bottlecap might both give a 83VDI, if you go into pinpoint you will notice that the quarter hits hardest on the 2.5kHz and the bottlecap on the 22.5kHz. (Not to mention that the bottle cap reject - which is iron reject - can break up the cap). And it is an awfully quick check to make. So, to answer your question, I can't imagine a penny and dime having the same frequency response. So a simple pull of the trigger would tell you.

It is great when I find the rare silver coin as that 2.5kHz freq hits hard, double the 7.5, which is double the 22.5. I even have the screen set to flash "SILVER" (seriously) to get my hopes up. ehehe I don't even use the analysis features much anymore as the multi frequency pinpoint works so well.

I would imagine the E-Trac reaches the same end with Fe and Co values?

EMS

edit - I stand corrected. I found these two videos on Youtube and a man compares the signals and the VDI and frequency response was almost the same, in the ground it probably would be
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]

That said, if you run the machine in one frequency and have it set for non-normalized it can open up any range you want. So, if you are running it in 2.5kHz which will respond better to higher VDI numbers, you can then non-normalize it, which will open it up and probably separate the VDI's some. It does work with Nickels and pull tabs pretty well (at 22.5kHz.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2011 02:21PM by earthmansurfer.

As I have never used an E-trac or V3i can't give any evaluation however just pointing out some of the abiities of an almost 20 year old technology and how far or how little we have come. Heck the top fellows on the Explorer forums will admit they dig a lot of junk to get the silver they get so again one wonders who has the best technology relative ID
whether it be old or new. I do know technology has risen in leaps and bounds when it comes to phones, TV's and the like but on the whole the detecting industry is sort of a turtle in its acomplishments when we compare the old and new..Certainly understandable as everyone uses a TV and those new phones and such are used by many and big bucks equate to much more experimentation and improvements which lead to the leaps and bounds abilities.

Confirmation of what I said regarding non-normalized data in one frequency:

"It now becomes easier to distinguish silver from clad. For example a clad and silver Roosevelt Dime typically respond with VDI numbers ranging from 76-80, a difference of 4. By non-normalizing the data in 2.5 KHz, the clad dime's VDI becomes 50, while the silver dime's VDI becomes 56, difference of 6!"

Your point is taken though Dan. There just isn't the same money in the market of detectors as their is in the markets you mentioned. If detecting was more popular though, there wouldn't be many coins left in the ground. We are actually pretty lucky!

EMS

Yes Dan, seems like a Fisher, experience here. I, for one, would like to hear about Whites machines more often. Thinking about that and having mixed feelings, this forum is kind of "specialized" and different from others, not only input from experiencend detectorists, we get info that is more precise and more in depth here, I like that. I also think this forum flows around the top machines of today and yesterday and stays away from the machines that are run of the mill...another difference comparing this forum to others...I like that also
I think that if company x came out with a detector that held the most trump cards, Tom would push aside the cz's and the 75's. But until then, they float to the top.

Steve, thanks for the info. I really like Fishers, but in my area we have med. to heavy mineralization, and the Fishers are lacking in the disc. mode. Most of the successful coin hunters in my area are useing the Etrac. I will be ordering a Etrac this week. I would wait a little longer to see what Fisher develops, but some of the best hunting is right now. Thanks again.

I would assume most of you dont use the Mark 1 anymore. But I can say for sure that the analog target id of the Mark 1 will give the user a world of information from just a slight movement of the needle. Differentiating between clad and silver is no problem with the Mark 1 meter and telling the difference between an indian head and copper or zinc penny is indicated with an ever so slight reading of the needle. A difference of a mere eighth of an inch where the needle ends up can tell you a lot. I do realize the Explorers and other machine have a depth advantage but for for audio and total amount of visual target identification I have yet to find a machine that can tell me what the Mark 1s analog meter can tell. It would be nice if in the future a 4 digit detector would be designed and the extra 2 digits would help a lot with target identification. It has been a few years but im still hopeful that George Payne will design the Micro Mark 1. Its a shame that most are still using his innovations for the new machines. But maybe we will see some new technology in the next 5 years.

kasparov747 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would assume most of you dont use the Mark 1
> anymore. But I can say for sure that the analog
> target id of the Mark 1 will give the user a world
> of information from just a slight movement of the
> needle. Differentiating between clad and silver is
> no problem with the Mark 1 meter and telling the
> difference between an indian head and copper or
> zinc penny is indicated with an ever so slight
> reading of the needle. A difference of a mere
> eighth of an inch where the needle ends up can
> tell you a lot. I do realize the Explorers and
> other machine have a depth advantage but for for
> audio and total amount of visual target
> identification I have yet to find a machine that
> can tell me what the Mark 1s analog meter can
> tell. It would be nice if in the future a 4 digit
> detector would be designed and the extra 2 digits
> would help a lot with target identification. It
> has been a few years but im still hopeful that
> George Payne will design the Micro Mark 1. Its a
> shame that most are still using his innovations
> for the new machines. But maybe we will see some
> new technology in the next 5 years.


This 1000+, I had a friend "since passed" who used to use a Mark1. Same as above. To many people get hung up on depth. Where the ET shines is tell good target from trash. My F75 was a good machine. For my area "big city parks" the trash was just to much. I had to dig a staggering about of trash to find the goods. And i did. Picked up the ETrac and in 3 months found more river and good targets than the three years of running the F75. Having a 80% chance of knowing what the target is before digging it....I dig it ! I'm not promoting Minelab in any way. Just my experience. If Fisher can produce a machine that does what the ET can do i would sell my ET and buy one. Even if the performance was the same. I am very brand loyal towards Fisher. Loved my F75 but it was the wrong tool for my application . In my area "Beach hunting" my CZ-21 trumped the Excal, Sov GT, ETrac and AT pro in both depth and target id.

I beleave the reason so many new users of the ETrac are pulling good finds . Is because of the "Unmasking ability " Of the ETrac. It's not perfect but it's there and it works to a degree.

mark --

that's great news, on your E-Trac. Let us know how it goes. I think once you learn it (which will take some time), you'll be surprised by how much your finds improve...

NASA-Tom --

you said earlier...

Quote

Dave, David and John (FTP/Fisher) are NOT 'chasing' or 'targeting' ANYONE!

While I understand what you are saying, I hope in a way that you are wrong, as I personally HOPE they are targeting the production of the number-one, "industry leading" deep-old-coin machine. I have all the faith in the world that FTP CAN do it, it's all about being motivated to do so -- i.e. whether they feel it's the right business decision for them to focus attention specifically on that niche. Some of what what FTP has done is nothing short of amazing, IMO. But, I don't think it's particularly controversial to say that from my vantage point it appears that as good as recent Fisher machines are, the attention has not be focused on a silver-coin machine specifically. And, as such, many of the folks who hunt deep turf silver specifically, look to Minelab. I am certain that if the very talented FTP folks turned their sights on that issue specifcally, it would be very exciting to see the outcome...because like I mentioned, I think they are miles ahead of the competition in many areas. They could lead the market in this niche, no doubt in my mind. Hopefully, they will...

Steve

Be careful what you wish for!

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mark --
>
> that's great news, on your E-Trac. Let us know
> how it goes. I think once you learn it (which
> will take some time), you'll be surprised by how
> much your finds improve...
>
> NASA-Tom --
>
> you said earlier... Dave, David and John
> (FTP/Fisher) are NOT 'chasing' or 'targeting'
> ANYONE!
>
> While I understand what you are saying, I hope in
> a way that you are wrong, as I personally HOPE
> they are targeting the production of the
> number-one, "industry leading" deep-old-coin
> machine. I have all the faith in the world that
> FTP CAN do it, it's all about being motivated to
> do so -- i.e. whether they feel it's the right
> business decision for them to focus attention
> specifically on that niche. Some of what what FTP
> has done is nothing short of amazing, IMO. But, I
> don't think it's particularly controversial to say
> that from my vantage point it appears that as good
> as recent Fisher machines are, the attention has
> not be focused on a silver-coin machine
> specifically. And, as such, many of the folks who
> hunt deep turf silver specifically, look to
> Minelab. I am certain that if the very talented
> FTP folks turned their sights on that issue
> specifcally, it would be very exciting to see the
> outcome...because like I mentioned, I think they
> are miles ahead of the competition in many areas.
> They could lead the market in this niche, no doubt
> in my mind. Hopefully, they will...
>
> Steve


i agree! if they (f.t.p.) can do it,the lightweight alone will "seal the deal" for 'em!
i see posts from all over the forums!..people ARE findin' a 'ton" of old silver with the trac!
can't be all "crap storm!"..just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.

If i could have what the Etrac does in a T2/F75 package and make it weather proof i would be a happy camper.

And please no more bottle cap dance. Just take crown caps off the target line.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Be careful what you wish for!

I sure like the sounds of THAT!

And j.t. and EZrider, you guys hit the nail on the head, IMO. FTP has the ergonomics/weight issue NAILED. Like EZ said, put multi-frequency, ETrac-level peformance on deep old coins, into a T2/F75 package, and add a few special Dave J. tweaks/surprises? LOOK OUT!

Steve

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NASA-Tom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Be careful what you wish for!
>
> I sure like the sounds of THAT!
>
> And j.t. and EZrider, you guys hit the nail on the
> head, IMO. FTP has the ergonomics/weight issue
> NAILED. Like EZ said, put multi-frequency,
> ETrac-level peformance on deep old coins, into a
> T2/F75 package, and add a few special Dave J.
> tweaks/surprises? LOOK OUT!
>
> Steve

Yes and we can call it the E-Game (for End Game!)
Just add a little bit of analysis tools.

The CZ is a great machines, make no mistake about it, and it's as close to an E-trac/Explorer as First Texas has right now.

A couple of weeks ago I spent a week hunting remote Nevada sites/ghost towns with three other friends. The machines used were the CZ3D, F75 SE, T2 SE, AT PRO, and V3i. The machine that consistently brought home the goods was the CZ3D. Amazing but true.

I think if the CZ was able to use DD coils, it would still be as viable as an E-trac, although I have to admit the "bells and whistles" on the E-trac are outstanding once you start to understand them (I'm still learning!).

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The CZ is a great machines, make no mistake about
> it, and it's as close to an E-trac/Explorer as
> First Texas has right now.
>
> A couple of weeks ago I spent a week hunting
> remote Nevada sites/ghost towns with three other
> friends. The machines used were the CZ3D, F75 SE,
> T2 SE, AT PRO, and V3i. The machine that
> consistently brought home the goods was the CZ3D.
> Amazing but true.
>
> I think if the CZ was able to use DD coils, it
> would still be as viable as an E-trac, although I
> have to admit the "bells and whistles" on the
> E-trac are outstanding once you start to
> understand them (I'm still learning!).


I'll take my CZ-21 over my ETrac on the beach any day"dry sand". The F75 i had would be perfect on celler hole or plowed farm field hunts. Hunts where the only trash targets would be iron. As a coin machine and where coins are mosly hunted. There is the "Modern" trash that the machine has to over come. Crown caps,can slaw, foil, square tabs to name a few. Below that layer you have the beaver tails and screw on caps "starting of the silver area". Not everyone is going to be silver shooting in 150 year old NYC parks like i do. But modern trash and getting "under/around" it is the problem. The ETrac uses a combination of things to combat this. The days of a repeatable signal dig it and hope are over when it comes to this kind of hunting. There is no reason why FT and the engineers that work there can't trump the boys across the pond.

Well Dan, I agree with you wholeheartedly about the early 90's White's XLT (Spectrum). I have the Silver Eagle (its little brother). I have stated here before that the S. Eagle kicks the pants off of my Tek T2/Omega when it comes to TID. At all depths. I know a silver vs clad coin with ease. The target ID is that accurate and stable. And my Idaho ground is pretty mineralized. Does seem that in TID there was/is a backwards step. Maybe the TID stability is lost due to making current machines hyper-sensitive. Perhaps Tom D. could answer that question?

There are many features that make the E Trac my GO TO machine on dry land ......Besides that multi freq.'s , the fact that it also tells Ferrous content along with the Conductive properties of a target is what differenciates it from the pack ......These 2 numbers are what changes the game ..... No more same numbered coins as is the case with Conductive numbers only detectors ..... Just about ANY detector today can give you depth , few can give you the proper ID , and even fewer can give you proper ID at depth ..... Even more rare is the machine that can handle masking well ...... Of all the companies that could really come out with a mind numbing detector , and has the resources to do it , First Texas should be head and shoulders above the rest in this dept ..... I'm not sure why there is nothing exciting to come around the block ..... Jim

The extremely tight electromagnetic footprint of the T2/F70/F75 units is one of the primary reasons as to why the VDI jumps around a bit more than a concentric coil 'broad/average' view. The extremely tight footprint of these elliptical DD coils will 'snapshot' every nuance of the target(s) ... and report it on the VDI.

For me its the smartscreen. You can just look at the screen and get a very good idea as to what you are dealing with. Its simpler to look at than watching bouncing digits. Also there is no machine that produces the sound of silver that the ML does. I liked the DFX as well.... the dual freq at 3 and 15 khz allowed you to separate targets by like was mentioned by using either of those freqs for high or low digital separation.

Dew