E Trac Tom's Correct

Well, I didnt mean to open such a can of worms when I asked the question about the accuracy of the E Trac I'd, but I now have a follow up!!

I purchased a new E Trac from the only dealer in Ga. yesterday and put it to test in a coin garden that I have where the soil is really red clay! I have a 1021 CZ3D that air tests at 11 inches.
It will barely read my quarter at 6 inches and will not read the dime and nickel at 6 inches in any discrimination mode with any sensitivity setting!
The E Trac hits really hard on all three even with the coil raised off the ground one to two inches!!!!

To the gentleman that said it would not work in his red soil while relic hunting, I would suspect the E Trac that was being used was faulty! Minelab's entire business is based around the fact that their machines can handle even the worst mineralized soils!!!

Went coin shooting with the E Trac today and boy do I have a lot to learn along with building my shoulders up!

The CZ3D will be listed on a popular internet site sometime in the next week.I hope it's ok to say that here.
Thanks,
Al

Al --

You did NOT open a "can of worms" at all. That's what we are all here for, to exchange ideas, and to learn. One thing I've found out about this forum is that as long as we are trying to arrive at "truth," as best as can be determined in a given situation, and as long as there are no personal attacks, a vigorous exchange of ideas is welcomed by NASA-Tom, and by all who are here. I do not doubt Daniel Tn's experiences in his soil one bit; however, you are correct that a Minelab FBS machine is SUPPOSED to handle mineralized soil well. That doesn't mean that it won't handle some (like Daniel's), but on the other hand it WILL handle mine...and apparently yours, too!

Glad you got an E-Trac; there is a learning curve but it's well worth it. If the weight is too much for you, you can look into a "swingy thingy;" they really help for some, others don't care for them. If you have any specific questions along the way regarding the "learning curve," post them -- as there are plenty of Minelab FBS users on this forum who are willing to help.

Again, we are all here to learn, and people here seem to be less "thin skinned" than on some forums, so I don't think you have to walk around on "egg shells" trying not to "open a can of worms." It's all good!

Steve

Yeah man...no can of worms here. I didn't say that they wouldn't work...just my experience has shown that others work better in it. If you're in northern GA you are hunting in the same dirt I have here. Don of North GA Relics in Ringgold sells Minelab. He has access to any Minelab machine out there and when he goes to VA hunting, ask him what he uses and ask why doesn't he use an eTrac ;-) I will leave you with this food for thought: If the FBS machines were capable of handling the most severe ground, wouldn't the Minelab guys be using them in their new Civil War relic hunting video series in VA's red dirt? Hmmm. Go check their videos on the website and see what they are all using. I will help ya:

www.minelab.com/videos?id=62716

Daniel --

I haven't watched the video yet, but I will; I'm guessing they are using GPX machines (PI)?

I am fascinated with your experiences, and that of others in parts of VA/TN/north GA. Like I said in the other thread, I have heard many times how those soils in your area are very "hot" and very tough to detect in. What in the world is in your soil that causes such issues? Is it just a much higher iron content than some other "red clays," or is there another component in that soil that is causing such issues? Maybe when NASA-Tom gets back, he can shed some light on all of this.

I used to live in Nashville, but wasn't detecting at the time. I have often thought back and wished I'd have been detecting at that time -- with all the civil war stuff and other history surrounding that area. HOWEVER, based on what you have said, I may have had big issues with the soil. Does that "bad dirt" extend as far west as middle TN -- or is it farther east, in the mountains?

Indeed FBS machines are supposed to handle "bad" ground well (as Tom has sort of described them as "quasi" PI machines in some ways). However, in some types of very severe ground like yours, I guess they become ineffective. I think though what surprises me most is that there are other VLF detectors that you feel do better. I am thinking that an experienced E-Trac or Explorer user should be able to get their machines to perform AT LEAST as well as other VLF machines can...but maybe not? I'm thinking open screen, and TTF on the E-Trac (or "ferrous" sounds on an Explorer) would have made them work as well as the other VLF machines can; I can see PI machines being a HUGE improvement in really bad ground over an FBS...but a VLF being more effective seems unusual.

Steve

I have read of the FBS machines having a tough time out west in some places also.
Which goes back to different machines work better at some places than others.

Daniel,
I must say you have really been around the block and I am sure your knowledge of relic hunting is vast! As I think it was Steve said, soil is different everywhere and MInelab won't work there.
You are correct because I did buy it from Don which is a 2.5 hr drive from here. I greatly miss relic hunting . Used to hunt south of Atlanta all the time, but now I am in gold country. Still trying to find that first GA nugget which is hard because not much gold in Ga occurs near or one the surface. I have done a lot of dredging though with good results very near my house. A friend had a 5 inch dredge but I have done a lot of highbanking also. The LDMA Loud MIne is very near my house and I just got a Gold Bug Pro and it is hot on small gold. It's much hotter than the GMT I had.
I really appreciate this forum and the great input you guys offer!
Al

Daniel,
I thought they were using the GPX in Va. for the same reason guys are now using them in Ga.
Extreme depth for relics. Guys are digging bullets here in GA at depths that are incredible with them.
Al

Geologically, there is a difference in red dirt/clay in different localities. Iron in soil is generally composed of iron/magnetite and its many, many chemically varied combinations. I don't thing the E-Trac that SteveG mentioned is defective. While the soil may visually appear the same in Georgia/Oklahoma, its not the exact same composition. Thus, the varying results using the same type of machine.

I didnt have a lot of problems out west with the ML SE so i dont know why the Etrac would have. However, VA and GA is some pretty tuff stuff depending on the area you are hunting. MOST machines i know have a problem in those areas.

Dew

Hunting in different states and in different area's , I continue to be amazed at how certain area's look to be the same , yet be so different in soil or sand conditions ...... For example, one would think that because basically the same water hit's the same beaches in the NYC area , that the beaches would all be pretty much the same physical makeup .....NOT SO !!!......I have an AT Pro that I can just barely GB on the wet sand on one beach , and will GB much easier on another .....Then there are beaches with more black sand than others ....... I would guess that it's the same with Red Clay from the various states ..... Look at the fact that you have to constantly change the GB on a single frequency machine just going from the ocean to the wet sand ....and then change it AGAIN going to the dry sand , and this all no more than 25 ft or so appart ON THE SAME BEACH !!!.... All Red Clay is not created equal .....Jim

I feel Jim pretty much said it all so grab the weapon of your choice and go get them.

Wonder how Nautilus never entered the picture but its a prime example as the fellas down South swear by them but
they are rarely ever mentioned by the fellas up North. So again different strokes for different folks and whatever works comes to mind...

The GPX machines are simply amazing. The depth is unbelievable until you see it for yourself. I'm talking minie balls at measured depths of 18-20 inches and not exaggerated depths either. BUT the real key ain't the depth. Its just the ability to see through this iron dirt. As stated previously, non ferrous targets do not have to be deep in order to start being totally masked by the dirt. In some cases in Culpeper, VA you can have a minie ball in your dirt pile covered by just 2" of loose dirt and it still read as iron.

I am very good on the F75 and T2 platform. My first DIV I hunted a small camp I found and dug that thing for 3 days til there wasn't a signal left or so I thought. When we returned to this site I had a PI machine then and thought I might dig a few buttons and brass since the PI loves those things. To my surprise it was like the place had never been hunted....the same exact spot. I was digging minie balls left and right and buttons and brass knapsack pieces. Most of this stuff was well within range of the F75. I'm talking 4-8 inches. I actually went to the truck to get the 75 while I let a buddy of mine hunt with my TDI because he hadn't found anything yet and I had nearly 100 dropped bullets already. Since he was new to the TDI I had him unplug it so I could hear and then I wanted to see what the 75 would do on targets I knew were good on the TDI. Thus was the problem why I didn't dig them on the previous hunt....THERE WERE NO TARGETS on the 75 LOL There was what I describe as ground noise...in which I would need to rebalance. Then I would watch as up would come a bullet or something. The trouble on the TDI is nails and iron sound the same as high conductive targets and thus you dig a lot of nails. The GpX on the other hand, although limited, can null out on iron and makes it real easy to tell iron from non iron. Thus everyone that has seen what they can do and can afford one, is jumping on board. I hated having to sell mine.

So I just got an eTrac used from Don. Contacted him about a GPX and he says "hey weren't you looking for an eTrac a little while back? I just got a used one in on trade...will let it go for $925" couldn't pass it up. Just opened the box a few hrs ago and am trying to figure this thing out. Tried it in my yard test garden with preset coins and then preset relic mode. Have a silver dime at 9" that it will only hit in relic mode...hits low and to the right on the screen. Coin mode gets nothing on it. Moving to my relics and can get some targets in Relic mode but hard to cipher them from a square nail I have buried. Came back in to warm up and troll the forums for programs. Gonna go try this Two Tone Ferrous thing in a minute. This thing is totally new to me and way different than I remember the Explorer II being. Its also way different than the T2 I've been use to. I like the sounds better so far but in ground that all has changed unless its shallow. I have a silver dime at 4" that comes in nice with the CO numbers in the 40s and nice tone...my T2 already has trouble IDing the dime correctly at 4"....it wants to bounce it down into the tab-zinc range and occasionally pop into the correct range. BUT the T2 in motion all metal is smoking deep...just can't trust the ID numbers. Good old red dirt :-)

In my red dirt (upstate SC) my Etrac can only ID my 8" silver dime half the time under normal moisture conditions. The ID bounces from high tone to low tone in conductive tones. This is with the Etrac set at manual sensitivity @ AUTO +3. Increasing Etrac sensitivities above that results in significant iron high tone falsing.

My F75LTD and CZ3D also shows this deep dime as iron most times. I believe that in the south, in red clay, all non-PI machines lose ID capability on deep silver regardless of brand.