Old Shotgun Shell ID

Tom:

I'm finding lots of old brass of various calibers but also found an old shotgun shell base that I'm wondering about. It's not like your normal 12 ga. base because it has no side metal to it. It's just a flat disc with a used primer still in it. The primer looks like it has some sort of rubber seal around the part that's inside the shell. As best I can read, the bottom says LONDON and ELEY across from it. Back during the Frontier days many wealthy British citizens owned large cattle ranches. Looks like 12 ga. Any ideas?

Ron

Sounds 1880's or 1890's. There is a great Shotgun shell Head Stamp web-site. I'll see if I can find it. I know Glenn-Orlando knows of this site.

its on my site tom, im ready to crash now, so i cant check...just hit

[www.treasurehippo.com] and go to very bottom of links page.

-Mike

Thanks Mike.

Thanks Tom & Mike:

Links page doesn't want to come up for me on the Hippo site, but I'll keep looking.

Tom:

I'm thinking that my approach to hunting out here has been wrong. Relics and artifacts are all over, so I'm going to concentrate on them and let the coins just come along. Lots of shell casings, buttons, etc.

I just found a large button (half dollar size) that's made from copper or brass. It feels heavier than a half dollar. On the front appears to be a saddle stirrup with an eagle on top of it. I'm thinking maybe cavalry as the location is right near F.E.Warren AFB which was originally Ft. D.A. Russell C.1867) Both cavalry and infantry were stationed there.

Wonder how many good relics I passed over looking for coins? I guess I'll just have to go back and get them.

Ron

Sounds like possibly a Great Coat button. Be careful....... buttons can be worth MUCH more than coins....,,,,,, and can sell on ebay very easily.

Tom:

It's pretty corroded but we're cleaning it up. It has Waterbury Button Co on the back and around the rim on the front are 13 stars. Tried to look it up but no luck so far. Company produced buttons from 1849 thru 1965. It's actually a little bigger than a large cent but a little smaller than a half dollar. Probably about 28mm or 29mm.

Ron

I recommend Aluminum Jelly for 1st stage cleaning. Good stuff.... ACE hardware store. Approx $5.00

Tom:

Hitting a site that's been scraped to build I-25; probably in the 50's or 60's. Used to be the Fairgrounds. Lots of targets but mostly modern non-ferrous trash. I suspect there might be some older targets there but it depends on how much soil they scraped off. Maybe I could get lucky and the scrape would be just enough to get at the old stuff. Did find a shotgun shell base that has U.M.C. STAR 10Ga. If that dates back to well before the 50's then maybe the good stuff is still there.

Was using the F-75 there; Sens 99, Disc 0, JE and 2F. Really busy even with 2F but stable. May be coincidental, but I decided to switch to 4H and started to find coins. Not old but still more than I had been finding. Too many non-ferrous targets in 2F will put you on overload. Finally realized that, in all that mess, I needed to listen for that high tone. Lots of falsing but that's OK. At least that gave me the opportunity to check out the target rather than having it get lost in a mass of 2F non-ferrous signals.

Ron

Yes, if you are "coins only" hunting in a highly trashy area....... by all means,,,, use the "coins tone" ...tone selection (that being 3 or 4-tone). If you start to find Barber dimes...... switch to 4-tones and start digging the top 2 tones...... as all of the Indian Head pennies will audibly ID as the second-highest tone (3rd tone).... whilst in 4-tone mode.

Tom:

Went to a gun show this morning and had a chance to talk with a guy that is really up to date on old cartridges. I mentioned that cartridge I found a while back that showed no evidence of have an external primer. He said they used internal primers before they figured out how to use the external primers. Kind of coincidental as I found another cartridge today that has the firing pin indentation in the center of the base but no external primer. The guy said the internal primer thing was late 19th century.

Ron

Hmmmm, and at what depths are these shells coming up from,,,,,,.........,,,, as I would recover ALL non-ferrous targets at that exact same depth..... and deeper.

...... Keep in mind, old generation shot charges (live rounds) REQUIRED to be fired/shot,,,, usually within 2 years ... and usually less,,,,, becuase the black powder is quite hydroscopic (readily absorbs moisture/humidity) and this moisture would deaden the round in no time. If you are finding live rounds with firing pin strikes..... but the round did not shoot..... they were probably old when they attempted to shoot. This helps date the era of the area.

Tom