E-Trac test

EMS -- Keep us posted on that 13" Detech coil. I've came just a hair in buying one. If I can sneak 2-3 inches more than the stock coil I think I would be happy. Problem is....in my soil I can't run the eTrac at 30 sensitivity.

As a matter of fact in some places I've hunted so far, I've had to back it down to 19-20 manual and if running in Auto it wants to run 15-20. Some places I can run 3+ but it still only runs as high as 20-22. Basically I think it is really struggling with this iron dirt. In some of my better dirt sites I've dug Civil War bullets 11-12 inches with good audio. But I noticed the other day at a new site I had to back it down on sensitivity to keep it stable and from falsing....and didn't dig anything there. When I got home I tried it in my test garden with how I had it set....Auto +1 was as high as I could run it at the previous site and it stuck in the upper teens to low 20. Heck I couldn't get anything but a null on a minie ball in my test garden....this with the "extensive nail reject" pattern on the Minelab website. When I went to open screen, it hit the bullet every time....as 100% iron in the 34-35 ferrous range. If I had been running TTF mode all the bullets I went over would have sounded like iron.

I can up the sensitivity to +3 in Auto or manual in the low 20s and get the bullet to give less of an iron reading with a little better conductive numbers but was still caught off guard with how just a slight change in sensitivity had that much of an effect on the eTrac here. I will have to go back and rehunt a few areas and investigate those iron signals. In this particular case...the F75 and T2 handle the soil better with less falsing at higher sensitivity and thus giving better signals on relics in our worse of dirt (in motion all metal of course). I still think a PI machine is best for here on overall depth.

The Etrac loses depth rapidly with decreasing sensitivities and iron falses badly with too high a sensitivity. The AUTO sensitivity function is a very nice feature but EMI will drive it down to a low number and diminishes performance as on the F75. I believe the CZs are less susceptible to EMI in general compared to either F75/Etrac.

The GB-2 is a older analog 71Khz unit........... and no........ I do not calibrate these units. I can validate/certify them....... but have yet to dive into their calibration.

go-rebels Wrote:
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> The Etrac loses depth rapidly with decreasing
> sensitivities and iron falses badly with too high
> a sensitivity. The AUTO sensitivity function is a
> very nice feature but EMI will drive it down to a
> low number and diminishes performance as on the
> F75. I believe the CZs are less susceptible to
> EMI in general compared to either F75/Etrac.

I'm a bit mixed here regarding sensitivity. I have checked signals on 8" targets with Manual sensitivity at 30. Dropping it down to 25 is usually the cut off point to a degree. As Tom has said this is where the E-Trac has its "Boost Mode". You always here of people digging deep targets with the E-Trac at lower sensitivity levels. I can often hit deeper targets - 8" range, down to 21 to 24 but it is softer. I don't know that that is "rapidly losing depth". I would say of course, that it depends on your soil mineralization. My ground is 1% iron mineralized and of that the iron mineralization is extremely high. (Says my V3i's ground probe feature)

But, I 100% agree with you about the iron falsing. VERY much that is true at higher manual sensitivities.

Daniel - The 12X13 NEL adds about 1.5" of depth, so I don't think you will get 3" more of actual depth BUT you might get 3" more of practical depth as from my in house experiment it seems to do better around EMI. It seems to do better than the 12X13 (in the house). Maybe I'm wrong about the additional depth of the 13" DD as 3" is 2X as much more depth than the 12X13 NEL gets, but I HOPE I'M WRONG!. eheheh

Perhaps the 13" Detech is a superiorly designed coil? It is brand new, so one never knows.

EMS

EMS -- Ahh but I'm looking at the bigger objects depth. I don't coin hunt much...I seem to teeter totter between relics and coins though. So what I've noticed is that bigger coils don't really give much increase of depth on say dime size objects but when you get into quarter to silver dollar size objects the depth increase becomes more apparent. In relic hunting we are seeking out things in that medium-larger sized area. Do you happen to have any Civil War relics you could test with your coils? If not, p.m. me and I will send you some free of charge. All I ask is to provide us some depth comparisons from coil to coil like you've done with the coins.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
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> EMS -- Ahh but I'm looking at the bigger objects
> depth. I don't coin hunt much...I seem to teeter
> totter between relics and coins though. So what
> I've noticed is that bigger coils don't really
> give much increase of depth on say dime size
> objects but when you get into quarter to silver
> dollar size objects the depth increase becomes
> more apparent. In relic hunting we are seeking out
> things in that medium-larger sized area. Do you
> happen to have any Civil War relics you could test
> with your coils? If not, p.m. me and I will send
> you some free of charge. All I ask is to provide
> us some depth comparisons from coil to coil like
> you've done with the coins.


Thanks Daniel, I actually didn't know that. You are helping me out as I really am searching for those older quarter sized Silver DMarks here in Germany. I have only found them 7" deep or so, but they hit so hard. No doubt I could get them at a foot and that would be a nice feeling (and a goal of mine!). Perhaps I will get more interested in relics as I know a spot that has them and it goes back 500 years and I've had a blast digging coins from back then. Not trashy, just has some old iron and I'll try the bigger coils there once things warm up.

I have relics I have found, like musket balls from the 30 year war a few hundred years ago and some old buckles and such. ( I could weigh them to give you an idea of their size.) My tests have been on coins in the field. I moved to a different house and no longer have my test garden either. It is nearby but they are redoing the garden this year (I will test the E-Trac on those V3i tested deeper American coin targets before that though!) I will probably sell the 12X13 Nel if the 13" Detech does what I think it will.

Do you realize I'm in Germany and that might not be the the best option as far as sending things?

Oh I had no idea you were in Germany. I still would like to see what you come up with via tests. Our Civil War bullets are soft lead and a good substitute for them is a 1 ounce fishing weight. Our .577 caliber Minie Ball weighs approximately 32 grams and our .69 cal Minie Ball is approximately 47 grams. These are our most commonly found relics.

As a benchmark I just air tested my eTrac with 11" Pro coil using a .58 minie...outside, no EMI, SMOOTH as could be.

30 sens -- 13.5 inches
25 sens -- 12.5 inches
20 sens -- 10.5 to 11 inches

It really shows quite a bit loss even in air testing from 20-30 sensitivity. As noted before, I'm having to run mine at around 20 most of the time just to keep it from falsing. So any gain of 2"+ with the NEL or new 13" Ultimate by Detech would benefit me greatly....especially if the new 13" proves more stable...that means I might could run it hotter.

Would love to see someone............ (not me.... but maybe Keith) post what the F75 SE in boost-process mode will air-test a .58 minie.

Tom -- I'm at work now but I have a video I done with the T2 in boost mode air testing a 58 and some eagle buttons. I will have to dig that off my camera.

OK found it! From the video I am so glad I done it this way. I start in 2+ tone and ramp the sensitivity to 90...ground balance it and then use a marked cinder block as a ruler. The cinder block length wise is 15".

At any rate it picks the 58 minie up at 12 inches in 2+ tone mode and 90 sensitivity. Disc was at 10.

By just switching it to BP mode and not changing any other settings, the results of the 58 minie were 15 inches.

Which does seem to verify my suspicion of the eTrac not going as deep as the F75/T2...but having much better ID at depth than either of the two others. If the F75/T2 reads a 9"+ bullet as iron, even if its capable of going 5 more inches into the ground, not many are going to dig it. Vs the e-Trac which IDs it better at the same depth...although nearing the fringe of its detection capabilities at 9-10 inches (my dirt) with the lower sensitivity settings. Thus why I keep resisting the want to trade it for a new F75 LTD lol if anything I want a PI machine again.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2012 12:54PM by Daniel Tn.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh I had no idea you were in Germany. I still
> would like to see what you come up with via tests.
> Our Civil War bullets are soft lead and a good
> substitute for them is a 1 ounce fishing weight.
> Our .577 caliber Minie Ball weighs approximately
> 32 grams and our .69 cal Minie Ball is
> approximately 47 grams. These are our most
> commonly found relics.
>
> As a benchmark I just air tested my eTrac with 11"
> Pro coil using a .58 minie...outside, no EMI,
> SMOOTH as could be.
>
> 30 sens -- 13.5 inches
> 25 sens -- 12.5 inches
> 20 sens -- 10.5 to 11 inches
>
> It really shows quite a bit loss even in air
> testing from 20-30 sensitivity. As noted before,
> I'm having to run mine at around 20 most of the
> time just to keep it from falsing. So any gain of
> 2"+ with the NEL or new 13" Ultimate by Detech
> would benefit me greatly....especially if the new
> 13" proves more stable...that means I might could
> run it hotter.

Well, you my friend are in luck. I have a 30.5g musket/mini ball. I think that is close enough. I also have a 56.5g lead weight that I found also. Is that not worth doing?
I'll do the test as you did so write out your suggestions now (as well as others) and I'll see what I can do when things warm up, shortly.
Any suggestions with how to do the air test are appreciated. As I said before, getting the large 15X17 NEL stable can be tricky and I had to set it down on the ground to test it. I will have to lower the sensitivity some to do it "properly".

I think another valid test is just to compare the stock, 13" Detech and 12"X13" Detech in the house as that simulates EMI well. I still can get it up there in sensitivity and get those results this weekend.

Fun fun,
Albert

Daniel.......... that's very correct........... and with a T2 SE. Yes........ the T2 SE........... and especially the F75 SE will (in most circumstances) ascertain much greater depth than the E-Trac......... but in a all-metal 'no-ID' fashion. This is a tangent of "effective/useful ... vs ... superior depth.

IF you like PI's.......... you may first want to simply try the all-metal boost process mode of the T2/F75 SE's........ and save the money. There's a lot to be said about LEARNING the all-metal mode...... and the attributes thereof.

Tom -- I wrote the book on motion all metal on the F75 lol....well I didn't write a book but I did teach two classes on it at the DIV relic hunts for the nasty Culpeper, VA dirt.

We found the regular (non boost) all metal to handle the soil up there and here a lot better than the boost all metal. It seems like the boost all metal causes them to false more on the ground itself...even with GBing every 10 feet or so. I noted up in VA that I had several folks coming up to me during the first hunt we had with the BP machines, asking if I were able to run in boost process....to which was given a hearty NOPE. We had to back them off to regular motion all metal in order to reduce ground noise and falsing without backing our gain to 40-50. The same held true down here.

I have a good friend with a black edition F75. I will try and borrow his machine to do a few tests with for fun.

EMS -- Those should work just fine! Try it with Manual sens stair stepped down...30---25---20. With 2 tone, Deep ON, Fast OFF, Pitch Hold response.

I'm very interested in your results when you get the time. I do my tests in a weird way I suppose. Outside I have my cinder block...I put the coil up on top of it at the edge and have the coil vertical. I then run my targets in the coils center from side to side gradually working my way further from the coil until the signal is no longer REPEATABLE with each sweep. I have my block marked from 12 inches all the way to the edge, which is 15 inches. Some do theirs on metal free tables and such...I just have my block. LOL leave it up to Tennessee Hillbillies to do everything on cinder blocks lol

Severe dirt!

Daniel,
I hunt similar dirt as you. My ET, when run in Auto +3 can run around 6-10! Unfortunately, where this happens is some of the most aged and historic land I have to hunt, so I know I'm missing out. Now, you've got experience with PI. Do you see a large increase in performance when using PI in this type of ground? Also, how about falsing...EMI? My ET's, when I move them to manual in this ground gets more noisy than its worth. Will by nature of the difference, will the PI machine run hotter and quieter than this in like ground?

I'm only a year into this hobby, but from what I've learned and found happening in the field, the nicety of having ID is Russian roulete. Hell, sounds like wether you're running any brand with ID capability, the tech is just not reliable unless all stars align.

If a PI machine like the ML GPX 4800/5000 can offer at least a broken tone to indicate iron, and achieve quieter unsurpassed depth in crappy ground, why not go this route? I must be missing the nuances that only you can gather by experience in the field using this type of machine. Please, someone give it to me straight before I take one of my ET's and put it up for sale and drop some damn silly cash on a GPX!!!

jrk,

6-10 on the sensitivity? Wow thats low. When in auto I have seen the sensitivity drop to around 15 in some of my soils. Normally I like to run it a little hot and deal with some falsing so I usually use manual sensitivity to keep it hot. Hopefully you can find some places where the items are shallower.

jrk -- Yes I have ran the Whites TDI and GPX 4500 & 5000. There's nothing like them for that kind of dirt. With the TDI you can achieve 13-15 inch depths on coins in that kind of dirt with stock coil and a touch more with after market coils but the iron ID is not good on it...with the GPX and the right timing, you can get 18-22 inches on coin size objects with the 11" coil and deeper with bigger coils. The thing with it is the cost. EVERYTHING for it is high....extra coils are as much as many VLF detectors themselves...$300+ each. It goes crazy deep with mono coils but it doesn't have iron disc with mono coils....only works with the DD coils. They still go deeper than anything I've ever used.

EMI is a bit of a problem with them. The newer GPXs are better at handling it than their predecessors. There are modes on them for extreme EMI but a great reduction in depth is the trade off...even still it brings it down to 14-15 inches on coins even in the high EMI modes. I done a video of the GPX 5000 with gain turned all the way to its lowest setting of 1 and was still picking up a silver dime at 9 inches in red clay and inches to spare. Definitely worth the coin if you hunt a lot. I had to sell mine but am getting another one as soon as I get the funds. I put back some $ every pay check.

Thanks for the info and time Daniel. Now, is the only difference between the 5000 and 4800 a couple of timings? Any hardware differences that you are aware of? Also, how good is the iron reject using the DD. What timing do you find you like using most of the time in your bad dirt?

Randy

Yep 4800 and 5000 are basically the same. There are a few less menu items on the 4800 but nothing important. All of them are exclusively for certain situation gold prospecting. The Fine Gold timing is just due to pulse machines not being sensitive to small gold...you DONT want this for relic or coins lol you will be drove crazy. If I remember right the other timing was something for hunting the salt fields. Once again not applicable for coins or relics.

My favorite timings were Sharp, Normal, and Sensitive Extra. Each one is optimized for size of objects and degree of mineralized ground. Normal is the middle ground timing. Sens Extra for better ground and Sharp for a little more severe ground.

Iron disc is OK...does have its limits. It is pretty good down to a 12 inches or so for nails...will break them up and null. Deeper iron is a bit harder to tell but you can dig a little and see if it starts to break up or gets clearer. If it breaks its iron...if gets better keep going.

I would ONLY recommend a PI unit for a VERY SEASONED detectorist! Try before you buy!

Thanks Daniel, thanks Tom.

Wish I could rent one of these for several days to run on some of my bad land. Anyone know someone that offers such?

Or, based on some of the previous posts, if the Fisher product is been found to be deeper, how will any of these handle such horrible dirt? Am I back to ML shallow?

Randy

If only you could test a:

AquaStar-II
BeachScan
Gold Scan-5
DeepStar

All made by Eric Foster