I'm getting in the mood to buy a new unit

RUMORS:

Minelab is working on a new unit that is based on the Xterra series

Fisher is working on a new multi freq. unit

Troy is working on a new unit out in a year or two.

Garrett is working on TV shows to sell what they have.


HERE IS A GRAIN OF SALT ( . )

Tom in SC

Tmanly, Ha Ha, got a chuckle from that.
Why so pessimistic?
You're just a little anxious.

I was having so much fun. First I had An ACE250 and I went over the sites with it. Then, an AT Pro, and found more, then a F75SE. then a G2. Then an Omega. Then I sold them all. Then I boucht an AT Pro, and A f75SE. But I kep the Omega through out all the selling. I also rebought a G2 becuase I had found so many bullets in the woods with that unit that I had a sentimental attchment to it. I am redy to try something else, but I guess from what everyone is saying, accept for PI units, I have pretty much run the gamut.

You want to have some more fun, try some of the older units. they will surprise you and anything you learn from them is just a plus. You can get 2 or 3 units for the price of one new one.

Tom in SC


Kevin B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was having so much fun. First I had An ACE250
> and I went over the sites with it. Then, an AT
> Pro, and found more, then a F75SE. then a G2. Then
> an Omega. Then I sold them all. Then I boucht an
> AT Pro, and A f75SE. But I kep the Omega through
> out all the selling. I also rebought a G2 becuase
> I had found so many bullets in the woods with
> that unit that I had a sentimental attchment to
> it. I am redy to try something else, but I guess
> from what everyone is saying, accept for PI units,
> I have pretty much run the gamut.

Sven1 Wrote:

> All the info on the Musky is here
> [groups.yahoo.com]

Interesting unit and I heard good things bout it's depth. But, it sure ain't cheap. I mean will it go deeper than an Omega and an Omega has a VID display?
Very interesting that it runs at 5kHz, must be a great coin unit and hot on silver. Anyone else have experience with it?

I had one of the Musky machines but in all fairness, didn't give it much of a chance. The build quality on it was not what you'd expect from Minelab and it was a very coil heavy detector. I only had the stock coil for it...I think they made several for it though. In my dirt here, I didn't see a vast improvement over anything else I had used...but at the time I had it, I wasn't aware the danger of using discriminate mode, and that's all I ran it in and all I tried it for was relic hunting.

These oldie but goodie machines have caught my interest too, and I've caught myself looking at a bunch on eBay thinking of getting one here and there. Some of these things can be brought back to super power life by newer coils and such. I just found out a little while back that Detech coil company has produced some coils for the Fisher 1200-X series machines...I still have a 1265-X in the closet and it might not be a bad one to get a large DD coil for just to try.

The CoinStrike that I just bought...I had mentioned on here a couple months ago that I was looking for one, and I got lucky and got a good deal on one on a forum. That machine has, in just a couple of hunts, made me REALLY start liking it again.

Looking forward to getting the Omega and slapping a big DD coil on it and see how much muscle it really has.

Ive heard that troy was working on a unit that should be out any year now. Ive heard that for the last 10 years. Im thinkin within the next year, there could be a flood of new machines coming out, as there have not been many new models lately other than the AT series, and FTP models.

Yeah but that is the point...every year on the forums you see the same chatter about "we are due a new machine..." and thus we go into the next year waiting and waiting.

I think Carl @ Whites brought up a very good point in his interview with Relic Roundup radio show a few weeks ago. Point being that in this slow economy, detector companies aren't seeing it as really a big race to do ground breaking R&D and then go through the expensive manufacturing process for a new cutting edge machine. Simply because once it hit the market, it might not sell very well due to people not buying much in the way of expensive toys. Thus they were putting their eggs mostly in the basket of rebooting machines like the Classics and such, and giving them a face lift...machines that are low-mid priced and offer quite a bit, but not as much as a flagship model would offer.

Yep you are correct, we've been waiting on the new Troy machine that was always "just about finished and due out any time..." for the past 10 yrs or so, and the same goes for the Pulse Devil machine as well.

I say, use what is available now. And when they do come out with something new, wait some more til they get the kinks worked out of it, then once the forum hype settles down and people begin giving real reports from the field....if it holds up to the hype, then get one. That's my plan from now on.

Daniel - True regarding what Carl said in that intervue (and a great one btw.)

But, if companies overall aren't doing much in the way of groundbreaking research, what happens when one company makes a breakthrough? How do the other companies possibly catch up? It is a huge chance imo.

I am watching with open eyes and an open wallet for the new Fisher CZ. Dave Johnson is just too too good to think this is just going to be another detector. (And they have been woking on it for years - I think Tom said that.) With his comments regarding a new ID system (Maybe something to compete with the E-Trac), and low weight, we might see an exodus of users to this unit IF it performs in iron well. I expect it to be deep and perform in bad ground, as the CZ's always have. I love the E-Trac, but if something close comes along that is lighter, I am gone, my back is still hurting today from a 7 hour hunt one week ago.

earthman --

You said:

Quote

I am watching with open eyes and an open wallet for the new Fisher CZ. Dave Johnson is just too too good to think this is just going to be another detector. (And they have been woking on it for years - I think Tom said that.) With his comments regarding a new ID system (Maybe something to compete with the E-Trac), and low weight, we might see an exodus of users to this unit IF it performs in iron well. I expect it to be deep and perform in bad ground, as the CZ's always have. I love the E-Trac, but if something close comes along that is lighter, I am gone

I couldn't agree more, with everything you said there; I will add one more thing that would push me over the top into one of these units, and that is that I have had outstanding interactions with FT's customer service, and their repair department. I have more faith in FT taking care of the customer, BY FAR, than I do Minelab. Put all of this together with what you said above, and I am SOLD!

There is one other thing I want to say, and it may be controversial, but I believe it strongly, and my intent is for the positive. And that is that there is something about Minelab's FBS, which I have not completely put my finger on, but it is REAL -- that sets this platform at the VERY TOP, skill-wise, specifically with respect to finding and identifying deeper, old coins -- particularly SILVER. While there are obviously a large number of outstanding units to choose from, for all types of hunting applications, I say with full conviction that, overall, in most applications, in most environments, for most detectorists, NOTHING hunts silver better than an FBS unit. From my perspective, part of the reason is superior ID with depth in "non-mild" soil, part of it is in the tones, part of it is in the dual digital numbers (or the translation of those two ID numbers onto the gridded screen), and much of it is likely the multi-frequencies and how the algorithms process the info for the user. But, whatever it is, I feel that for any manufacturer to eventually exceed this performance, there first would have to be a mental acknowledgement given to the superiority of the permformance of this platform (again, I'm speaking only with respect to this one, specific application). To downplay that, or to ignore it altogether, would likely result in something that can't compete; I really feel that you must fully "understand and know" your "enemy," before you can defeat him (not the best analogy, as I don't mean to invoke "warfare" imagery, but it sort of illustrates my point). I would like to be clear that I am NOT partisan to Minelab, from a blind "brand loyalty" perspective; matter of fact, I feel more "loyalty" to First Texas, for example (the only other manufacturer I have purchased a machine from), based on (as I said) my perception of FT's approach/attitude toward the user/customer, vs. Minelab. In my opinion, Minelab falls far short in terms of customer service, ergonomics, price, and just my overall perception of the company. I'd LOVE to be able to hunt a FT (or other branded) machine for my type of hunting...but, like it or not, I have come to believe, with 100% conviction, that Minelab's FBS is simply superior, for my specific type of hunting (old coins), in my soil. My personal experience, and my interaction with literally dozens and dozens of other "coin hunters," makes a very clear, compelling case for my argument here, in my opinion.

My reason for saying all of this is for this reason: I truly HOPE the machine Dave J./FT is working on will exceed the silver/deep coin hunting ability of the FBS platform! But, again, I strongly feel that for this machine to do so, a true acknowledgement and intimate understanding of just how well FBS performs this task, from an end-user perspective, must be fully grasped first. IF it is clearly understood that FBS simply excels (in this one particular application), and if -- with this understanding -- the true focus on the part of Dave J. and FT is to "build a better mousetrap," I have full confidence in him/them to be able to do just that -- and as such I really look forward to this upcoming unit. I am a huge fan of how Dave J. does things...apparently the Gold Bug Pro/G2 embody a whole lot of Dave J.s philosphy as to what a detector should be (his words, paraphrased), and I simply LOVE that unit. From that perspective, if his mind is set on building a machine to truly "outdo" all others specifically in the old (silver) coin-hunting arena (and I do not know for sure if that's exactly what the focus is with the new unit, or not -- given all the "secretiveness!" ), but if it is, then I simply cannot WAIT to see what he comes up with. I am fully confident that he is one person capable of pulling off something, in terms of detecting, that I personally would consider amazing -- a non-FBS unit capable of claiming the "silver coin hunting throne!"

I, personally, cannot wait!

Steve

I read and read about the e-trac and how it is over the top on silver compaired to other machines. I've used it for over 50 hunt hrs, it's a great unit and I enjoyed detecting with it. I don't agree that it's the be all end all for silver. I don't agree that it unmasks all that well, in iron laden areas it's null city. As far as depth, my cz is deeper and the cz is also deeper than the Explorer SE.
When you say Fisher needs something to compete with the E-trac.... come on guys, don't get carried away.

ozzie --

I agree fully that it's NOT the deepest. I agree that it is not the BEST machine for unmasking. But, we'll have to disagree that FBS units are not the single best, overall, silver-finders out there... I can post story after story of folks I know -- both personally, and through the forums, who struggled mightily to find silver, until switching -- and then things immediately, drastically changed for the better -- within the first one or two hunts. COUNTLESS stories along these lines. It is not mere coincidence -- to much evidence to the contrary. Again, that is NOT to say that anyone who has hunted their machine thousands of hours, whatever machine it may be, can't out-hunt a good FBS user. I'm nearly certain that NASA-Tom, for instance, will out-silver THE BEST FBS user I know, him using a CZ or F-75 and them using an Explorer or E-Trac. But -- BY FAR, my experience shows that the folks who are finding the most, and most frequent, silver -- are, most of the time, using an FBS unit. I have seen this too many times to pass it off as coincidence...they simply excel in this area.

But, again, disagreements are healthy, and a good thing!

Steve

Steve - I pretty much agree that something in the FBS technology is setting it apart from MOST other machines (especially on older coins and on silver.) I don't think it's just the frequency set. I really think it is the Ground Balance or rather, ground removal. When I had the V3i I noticed that I had to have the GB damn near perfect to get depth. Just the other day an experienced V3i hunter PM'd me (he is also an E-Trac user) and said he is doing some testing and it appears to be the GB as well. He said he is starting to get better depth from the V3i BUT his GB must be perfect, absolutely perfect. Basically, I think the E-Trac has PERFECT GB or ground removal (better word).

Ozzie - I can't disagree with you as I haven't run a CZ (yet). I can say that the E-Trac experts have said it performs incredibly in iron, BUT you have to crawl. Now, maybe that ain't the best way to enjoy your time, but the results are clear. From what I've read here and on other forums the CZ's get similar if not more depth than the E-Tracs BUT not in iron. That is where they fall short. Again, I bring up the GB. Also, I thought the Omega unmasked incredibly and the V3i was even better, but the E-Trac is noticeably better than both. In clean ground I do think one of the fast platforms like the T2LTD or Deus is tops in iron, but my ground ain't clean and is somewhat iron mineralized. Oh, don't think you can't pull coins out of constant nulls, I do and many others do as well. I don't believe that the E-Tracs nulling is as detrimental to performance as some do BUT you do need to adjust for it (just slow down). The beauty of the E-Trac here is that you can almost hover above a coin (like a mini all metal mode) and still pull a signal out. I haven't used another detector that can do that in discriminate mode.

I'm a manufacturers best friend and worst enemy. I don't care about the name plate. I just want what works. I loved that V3i and made a ton of videos on it. But I wasn't getting depth and the weight/balance was noticeably worse than the E-Trac's (by .8 pounds). Then the E-Trac came along and I made those comparison videos that pretty clearly showed the E-Trac was MUCH better on depth (in my iron mineralized ground - key point.) Now, as much as I love the E-Trac, I HATE the weight. My back is still really hurting from last week. When that CZ comes out I am going to film it against the E-Trac, put it through the paces of European iron and if it is close (but lighter), it will be my main (rather only) machine, I just can't handle the E-Trac weight (for more than 3 or 4 hour hunts). I used the E-Trac for 10 hours and realized it was superior to the V3i (after running it for well over a 100hrs, same as the Omega) and now have 100 hours on the E-Trac (ouch, back spasm).

I just want what works, plain and simple. That said, there is something attractive about Fishers (and Dave J's) machines. I think it's the company, the customers service and their ability to give what we want (and listen) that sort of makes them dear to me. I want them to succeed. But I will not move to the new platform if it doesn't perform well (but I just know it will!). I just hope for some form of more in depth ID or 2D screen like the E-Trac has as it has grown on my, incredibly quickly.

Albert

Love the 'passion' (energy).

Dave J. is very keen to customer requests........... in addition to K.I.S.S. principle. FTP does have a fairly good customer service department.

Bruce Candy is very keen to Australia red dirt. Minelab service department is average/below-average.

*** ... now have 100 hours on the E-Trac (ouch, back spasm ***

Curious. Does the E-Trac have a chest or hip mount available? Seems that would be an answer to back pain.

The very first day that I hunted with my etrac (long gone) I pulled a muscle in back that took me straight to the ground in the fetal position. I finally stretched out and worked the spasm out as cars drove by! But it took me 20 minutes to where I could reach down and pick up the etrac to set it in the back of the truck. I am not kidding one little bit. And as far as I know, I don't have regular back problems. I was finally able to hunt with it that afternoon in 15 minute segments. I could feel the onset of a spasm and I would set it down real quick and do stretching exercises. They must be a lot of gears and pulleys and whatnot in them etracs!

Man, if you guys think the eTrac is heavy...you would have never made it with the original Explorer and then Explorer II and its stock coil lol. The eTrac is light as a feather compared to those. The GPX is actually balanced better but the heavy part to it is the battery pack which is worn on a harness. And the T2/F75 with the white 15" DD coil is more off balance than the eTrac as well.

They make the bunjee attachments for the GPX's that will fit on the eTracs and such....but I never wore one with the GPX, because I didn't like being tethered to the machine itself. I like laying the machine down when I dig and with those, you can't use them right if you have that much slack in them (that would allow you to lay the unit down).

I am actually a pretty in shape guy, so it's not that I think the E-Trac is heavy per say. It's rather the twisting motion causes muscle spasms on one side of my back (old healed ruptured disk still tenses those muscles as protection). I can relate a bit to what Kevin B just said. BUT, I used the "Swingy Thingy" 5.5 hours today and 4 hours on Monday and I have to say it made all the difference in the world. Had I not, I would be laying down right now and it feels like I hunted 30 minutes. The Swingy Thingy is very quick to undo and a great help. I did feel kind of stupid with a bungee helping to support my detector though, not to mention like an old man (and I'm a relatively young guy still). But having that contraption, as simple as it is, is a bit of an ego hit I guess...

Do you guys switch arms? It's a bit awkward and inefficient at first, but after a few hunts it's becomes like your dominant arm. Don't give up on it as it adds hours to my detecting time.

Some solutions for hip/chest mounting. Couldn't find any kits specific to E-Trac.


[metaldetectingforum.com]

or

[www.findmall.com]

or

[www.findmall.com]

ozzie -- I do! You are right...it's awkward at first, but after a short while, it feels completely normal.

Steve