Is it a new fisher coming out

Tom is fisher going to make a F75 with 2 frequency???? That wood be nice

Tight-lipped is always the best motto..... until roll-out.

A new machine after such a short time after the release of the F5,75,70? Well how about a way to switch the two tone and split the sound. So iron is in the left ear and good targets are in the right? How about a way to switch your freq or combine them. How about a way to judge the mass of the target so trash will read differently then a good target. flip tops and gold and pulll tabs different mass but same readings.

And what does Tom think would be the next best thing..better unmasking more depth...what do you think Tom if you were designing a new detector? This would put Fsiher on the top and keep them there for a long time. But it is all talk so time will tell.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

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If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2009 04:35PM by Lawrenzo.

Being able to control gain on a given tone would be nice (IE. Iron low volume while other tones were louder).

be patient! worth the wait..

I want one that digs the holes for me.
Now that would really be cool.

Keep this mild-to-wild brain-storm thread going. (More valuable than you may think). Clues:


Bad mineralization (better handling) capabilities.
Elliptical DD coil may never go away..... rather, maybe an even tighter EM footprint.
Faster 32-bit microprocessor.
Clock speed increase.
Sens/Depth gain.

Just some 'ideas'.

I would like to see a 6x9 coil,smaller if possible. As stable as the explorer in really bad ground and more sen.

Tom,

I'd like to see:
(a) ground tracking included to handle variable, tough mineralization
(b) manually adjustable threshold retune (SAT)
(c) if it's two frequency,the ability to shut off either frequency ie DFX
(d) improved bad ground mineral performance

Unless of course they provide a new prospecting unit that has all the current F-75 capability in addition to the above suggestions.Thanks,

Jim.

Well how about setting the detecting world on fire. The next level for fisher has to have something that is so different so new that I can' live with out it. Not like what minelabe did or White's.

Tom I don't think a lot of us are going to run out and buy it till we hear from you. I mean you have the understanding of how and why we need the next level. Then we read and learn from this forum and then all across America we go out in the fields in the dirt and take your info and tweak it.

The newest toy will have to be a big step, we are not getting any younger and fihser's target age are the baby boomers I would think.

I would also think Fisher has to be almost done with the software if they are coming out with a new machine this year. I would think Tom you may be testing it by now.

Of course I know this is the first step of how rumors start but it would be nice to see Fihser blow everyone else away. I remember when I was selling Whites and one of the top guys for Whites said their only real challange was to beat minelab in sales. I think both minelab and whites and the rest of the compaines have dropped the ball.

Fisher took the lead and now can they afford to keep the lead? You have to give the customer what they want not just give them what you want to give them.

Toms ideas are good ideas but how much of a difference will that make?

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

This is the real kickback,in the middle of the frozen Tundra!! Hey Fisher how about multi frequency,digital numerical display,10 1/2",8" and 5" DD coils.No USB port,weight somewhere between a CZ 70 and an F75.Keep the price at about $1300.00 retail.The 10 1/2' and 5" coils would be accessory coils.Bill

You guys are putting a lot of GENUINE do'able thought into this. Joking has been put aside. This is what really counts. FTP listens more than you think! And it's not just a 'money' thing..... especially to Dave Johnson, John G. and others. Yes, they are concerned about making money.... BUT, the truth of the matter is; they love the challenge, understand the 'real world' utilization & needs, enjoy helping people, want to be #1.... and by a large margin.... and truly enjoy folks having stupendous performance resultants (with finds in hand) quantifying/justifying the entire full-circle existence. Gratification, pride and success become euphoric reality. To have folks fully enjoy and appreciate a product that you develop.... is pinnacle 'completeness'.

* Bill; your NOT wanting a USB port is interesting and true. To have the ability to 'share' a program with others (because insinuating the unit having substantial complexities in set-up config.) says many things.... and not necessarily positive. --- Coil sizes & selection is very important. And do not underestimate the importance of elliptical DD coils. We've come this far. Let's not go back!

* Lawrenzo; Believe it or not..... sometimes a minute' difference can make a world of difference in real-world performance. I will continue to do my best.... and report all REAL-WORLD usefulness findings to all of you. -I still have a hard time utilizing electromagnetics as the sole/primary principle of operation.... in a dirt environment world of electromagnetic core. The essence of counterproductivity. Hmmmmmm. --- I do remember in 1989.... most detectors could acquire a dime at 7" (avg.). Then..... all of a sudden, the advent of the 1266-X and CZ. Depth on a dime instantly became ~12". This was a huge (surreal) performance gain that no one would have ever thought was possible. And with stability to boot. Could (yet) another performance jump in such a depth-gain be possible to do again now (approx 20 years later) with current technology? --- I'm sure FTP has many different projects (in differing phases) on the table.

* Jim; Wow! You are so heavy in a multi-purpose prospecting unit! Not sure the aggregate market leans in this direction... BUT. This is what 'betters-the-breed'. Two-freq units pose interesting problems with ferromagnetic encounterings (ID difficulties). . . but technology may be advancing in this arena. The campaign is on!

MORE TO FOLLOW.

Tom

And if we are to stay with existing electromagnetic principle..... with no paradigm shift on the horizon; sure, I'd like to see some form of phase shift cancelling on ferromagnetic items (multiple problems ensue.... but conceptually possible). Iron targets are our worst enemy..... second to severe mineralization. And if only to make iron inert to EM. (This is asking for a lot). It also seems possible to have the current 9.75" elliptical ""concentric"" coil converted to a elliptical ""DD"" coil (a nearly ideal size)............ then......... drive the F-75 to depths that are currently only ascertainable with the 7" x 11" elliptical DD coil on the F-75. This would unmask targets to a greater extent. THEN..... if the 9.75 elliptical DD coil were changed to the 7 x 11 E-DD coil...... even greater depths would/could be achieved.......... finally laying the CZ to rest (except for salt environments).

Tom

Tom, I feel that many of the features so necessary to the successful coin/relic hunter can also be quite useful for electronic prospecting pursuits. We should keep in mind that many electronic prospecters also pursue other detecting interests wrt coin/relic hunting. Having this "all around" capability in one unit is a windfall.

Much electronic prospecting occurs in harsh iron mineralization, and in proliferate iron debris at abandoned mine tailings. Some of my best finds have come from high iron trash areas this past season, utilizing the F-75's superb separation capability, not to mention extreme sens/depth to low conductives. It's moderate operating frequency comes to the fore in such environs, where other dedicated units operating at higher frequencies can and do struggle, resulting in the loss of their "edge" in detecting the tiniest nuggets.

Currently the F-75 will come mighty close to those dedicated units on the small material, but will trumph them in high iron minerals on larger low conductives. More, the F-75 offers a full target ID in addition to the disc (especially unique JE mode) modes. This provides a tremendous advantage in tailings, saving much time that is uselessly spent, for example with the GMT (no disc circuit, only a % probability iron target ID), investigating every small signal that mostly results in small tidbits of iron. And that's aside from useful discrimination in natural landscapes to deal effectively with hot rocks. This is another fine example of how we appreciate the same disc capability that is so essential in coin hunting.

Coin/relic hunters, similar to prospectors, often find themselves searching variable high mineral ground. Adding tracking as a selectable option benefits everyone inasmuch as the operator selects that option when the ground dictates the need to do so. A ground tracking "override" is a good idea here...for example...the inclusion of "trac offset" and to a lesser degree "trac inhibit". Most hunters are aware of the potential pitfalls of tracking (ie tracking out small/fringe depth targets, tracking into iron..), but there are instances where it is needed, rather than constantly being inefficiently sidetracked by the need to continually re-balance.

If DJ and company elect to go with two frequencies, the unit is no longer "prospect" capable for creditable advertising purposes..unless you can optionally select either frequency. Something to consider there.

Otherwise, I'd suggest it's time to update the GoldbugII with all the above features. This aging unit has gained a name for struggling in high minerals, giving up depth, and it's edge on the tiny pieces in such environs. In Alaska, for example, it occupies a dismal tenth place in terms of sales at one large, well known detecting outlet in Anchorage. It's time for a change, and time to reduce the operating frequency to help eliminate the struggle in heavy minerals.

It's my view that if Fisher can offer a prospecting capable unit as described above, a unit that offers the "features" (a minimum of one disc circuit that must be JE capable) of an F-75/MXT combo with the same or better response/recovery and sens/depth of an F-75, they will own that market. To reiterate, that unit must provide manually adjustable, and tracking ground balance. Manually adjustable SAT should be included in any GoldbugII upgrade..if they expect to attract any of the enormously large White's crowd.

To really drive the point home, if the GMT was upgraded to include anything close to a JE capable disc circuit, I'd buy one in a heartbeat ..and that Tom is no guff.

Jim.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2009 07:14AM by HumblePie.

Tom I really don't think much is gained by the USB port and sharing programs.I can't even post a picture but I can (program) setup my SE by scrolling through menus.I do believe there is an advantage in multi frequency and target ID numbers.Multi Freq units just seem to work better,deeper and better target ID in this mineralized ground.Bill

The perfect scenario: F75 electronics wrapped in a bomb-proof CZ-like housing.

In general, yes, multi-freq units do better in bad ground; however, the T-2 & F-75 (and Coin$trike) are single freq units and are rewriting history for their bad ground handling capabilities. In most cases, they will 'match' .... if not 'exceed'..... ground handling capabilities compared to the CZ platform; however, still not comparable to how something like the Explorer handles bad ground.
And the further you develop a unit to handle the (usually) severe conditions encountered at prospecting locations...... then marriage this technology into a coin/relic unit,,,,,, especially with the utilization of today's microelectronics..... and make a truly "multi-purpose" unit circumventing the requirement of owning several different detectors for specific applications because (now) you indeed have a all-in-one unit; you have trumped the playing field. Now.... you might want to consider having one special menu page for unique discrete adjustments that is solely dedicated to all of the harsh prospecting dirt conditions..... that can ONLY be invoked when the unit is in the 'JE' mode.... so as to prevent the common user from being 'technically overwhelmed' with these 'advanced' settings/capabilities. These 'extreme' adjustments should only be made by prospecting pro's. Employ K.I.S.S. theory. Kudo's Jim!

Tom

Tom this is why your forum is the best bar none. Thanks for you thoughts on this subject. I know if you have any input with Fisher that you can only say so much with out spilling the beans. But for me depth and being able to be stable a faster clock speed, better unmasking in iron and the next generation of DD coil may be the icing on the cake..but what about a detector that can tell more about the target. I know minelab has a lot of info on the screen but I don't want to spend my time looking at icons I want all the power going into the ground.

Gold rings and pull tabs, gold rings and flip tops, gold rings and foil. I was thinking about how can we get an edge on that. It seems that a lot of hardcore hunters are relic hunters. You find a lot of different targets...something for everyone. I guess depth a lot of depth would get me hooked again.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Maybe Fisher will figure out the whole PI Discrimination thing.

Hi Tom,

your comment...

"make a truly "multi-purpose" unit circumventing the requirement of owning several different detectors for specific applications because (now) you indeed have a all-in-one unit; you have trumped the playing field."

Yes indeed, and Tom isn't this precisely what the F-75 has been achieving just lately? Now that the complaints have died down for a number of good reasons, hobbyists are beginning to fully appreciate this unit's fine merits. Word of mouth travels quickly, you'd be surprised how many in the "rock hunting" fraternity now own either the F-75 or T2. This trend is not just because these units will favourably handle some/most prospecting tasks very well, but also because of F-75's versatile, superb performance in other important hobby pursuits re: coin/relic hunting.

No doubt either, there is simply no getting away from the astonishing depth and sens to variable size lower conductives, even here in my ground at 83 to 85ish ground phase and magnetite @ 0.1%. Aside from picking up the 2.3 grain nugget at 3 inches (all-metal motion/JE modes), it'll respond clearly on a nickel composition (Canadian nickel) nickel at 10 inches here in freshly disturbed ground in both modes, and that includes JE mode with small iron discrimination in place (disc setting=12), and Tom...there is still a few inches of air space to spare...I believe it will go an inch or two deeper. What's more, despite those freshly buried coins IDing as iron, the JE mode with small iron discrimination will not discriminate them out, yet will discriminate out small iron items, even for example, inch long rusty screws. We both know why that's a fact of F-75 life, as you've covered that topic very well in your Compilations. Now that's performance, and I don't intend to settle for less.

Again Tom, your comment..

"you might want to consider having one special menu page for unique discrete adjustments that is solely dedicated to all of the harsh prospecting dirt conditions..... that can ONLY be invoked when the unit is in the 'JE' mode...

Yes exactly! But along with the JE mode, please include All-Metal mode too..and call it the Prospecting sub-menu...

Many of us "more mature" users have waited many years hoping that finally some brave manufacturer would design a truly "all purpose" unit that will perform all tasks admirably. The F-75, similar to the MXT, is a big step in the right direction, so let's pursue the thought and refine it's capability further. We know what a huge success MXT has been, and it's because many folks with even a remote chance of going rock hunting went out and bought it. They figured they had it all in one detector, and by and large, they were correct. Prospecting capability really pushed it's sales. Well...F-75 is very close in features, and already a more capable unit wrt sens/depth, response and recovery. This bit of recent history should be remembered at Fisher.

Yes, they could decide to simply upgrade the GoldbugII with some of these ideas, but I doubt such a final product would truly be considered "all purpose" by anyone. On the other hand, for the multi-purpose unit of my dreams, I would gladly fork over very considerable extra dollars. That would be for the future F-75 we have described above. Fisher needs to consider the market they are servicing...and many of those big spenders are just like me...baby boomers with dollars to spare for the right unit. I'd rather ultimately spend the big dollars it would cost to purchase one "really does it all unit" than having to upgrade several semi-expensive units in order to ensure that all tasks/pursuits can be handled satisfactorily.

I believe there is an unprecedented opportunity lurking here for innovative Fisher..especially with the current team line-up under DJ's direction. Why not "dip into that baby boomer marketplace" while most of us are still healthy/vigorous enough to have an active, eager interest in such a product.

Why not do some smart marketing, showing an everyday, honest-to-goodness electronic prospector using this new machine with success? Another photo showing a relic hunter with some noteworthy find? A coin hunter like Bill here from out in Montana...or yourself.. with some great find in hand. This is the stuff that will most certainly have much greater marketing impact in the metal detecting purchasing community, rather than merely indicating in desultory small print on their Website that the F-75 is considered to have prospecting capability...blah blah blah. Or showing the "tired out" photos of a certain someone who "belongs to the Fisher family" and that very few knowledgeable purchasers buy into anymore in terms of marketing credibility. NDG Tom. So Fisher..take this vision and take that share of the marketplace..a ripe plum waiting to be picked by an outfit with the savvy and the initiative to do so.

Jim.

I've found the machine I've been looking for in the Fisher F-5. Truly a easy to use multipurpose unit with decent performance. No, its not a F-75 or CZ. No, its not an Explorer. But the F-5's feature/performance vs price point is outstanding.

I'd like to see a F-5a model that includes Variable Speed Autotune Tuning or what Whites calls VSAT. The F-5's ground balance tuning range is already the best I've ever seen for mineralized ground, the seperated Gain and Threshold controls make it fully adaptable to any site. The small gold detection ability is already there and very, very good. Its already a ready made prospecting unit in both disc and autotune modes. It just needs the VSAT and some assessory coils to make it a perfect multi-purpose coin/jewelry/prospecting unit.

Accessory coil wise, I'd like to see a 8x14 eliptical concentric, the standard 7x11 DD, and the 4x6 eliptical concentric or DD coil.

Sweet machine that can only get sweeter!

HH

Mike

LowBoy,

Yes, depth is critical. I remember many years ago (around 1997/1998) one of my offers to Jim Lewellen (early on), then to Roger Cimino, Ray King, John Chernekoff, Don Parks, Gene Dahle, Mike Matenkosky, Fred Brust..... and some others at the Fisher staff in Los Banos was: I needed one detector... and would pay $25,000.00 per every EXTRA inch (on a U.S. clad dime) they could incorporate into a existing CZ unit..... preferably a CZ-6a. At that time.... the CZ-6a was approx 11.5" capable (w/proper ID) on a clad dime in low/no mineral soil. If they could build a CZ-6a that would acquire a dime 4" deeper (with similar/proper ID characteristics)..... for a total of 11.5 + 4 = 15.5" on a clad dime,,,, I would pay them $100,000.00 PLUS the $700.00 for the base/initial unit. Knowing that if they could do this, it certainly would be incorporated into the rest of the public CZ line-up. ----- FRL did not take my offer seriously...... but mostly what was lost was the intellectual knowledge that 'depth is this critical'. Currently, we are 'near-field'. If only to tap into 'far field' detection. Please understand that depth (read = sensitivity) capabilities are NOT linear (logarithmic), nor are they exponential; rather, they are asymptotic. Also; if only folks realized just how SERIOUS this hobby truly is.
---As far as more ID info..... I do not want to be blindsided; however, there are so many variables in the ground that (nearly) precludes acquiring a "more info" ID. (I hope...in the future.... I eat my words). The Explorers employ a ferrous & conductive VDI & X-Y LCD graph. Interesting; however, it's a nice bells-n-whistles feature to me. I'm still uncertain if it ever helped me decide if I would/would-not recover a target. If anything, masked targets would more likely be left in the ground...... especially in close proximity to iron..... as the bargraph cursor and/or VDI would dictate too much iron. (Not good). Hence; my 'bells-n-whistles' claim. I have approx 700+ hours on Explorers. More ID info on a textbook perfect solo target (not masked, not bad ground, not tilted etc....) might be nice.... but is not indicative/representative of most real-world scenarios.

P.I. ,,,, even with only ferrous vs. non-ferrous ID capabilities would be a tremendous attribute that would open untouched doors. Priceless.

Jim, I am not intending to insinuate the F-75 is NOT already a multi-purpose//multi-function unit; rather,,, to imply... if we were to incorporate a much higher order-of-magnitude (said) functions/featureset into the existing platform.... it would certainly pose a much greater delineation differential..... presenting a case-closed validated multipurpose unit of a status that has never been ascertained.
Jim, your ground is terrible! And a Canadian nickel is heavly ferromagnetic, lending for a great test-target.
"Prospecting sub-menu" Hmmmmmmm...... outstanding. Nuff said!
And yes, I mean to say: "JE" mode and AM mode inclusive, yet, with the delineation of said "Prospecting sub-menu". This should prevent average Joe from getting into trouble. ---In much greater depth (approx 1999), I posed to John Chernekoff (then = FRL Lead Engineer) similar.... and much greater intellectual capital regarding the like.
The MXT poses many major attributes; however, is heavily trumped by several performance factors incorporated into the F-75. (Sorry, but it's hard for me to look backwards; however, historically prelude to T-2).
Upgrading GoldBug-II to 2-freq (7.1Khz & 71Khz) w/Salt capabilities would open doors to = "How do you know what you are missing, if you do not know it even exists". ((( Try this on the wet-slope beach and you'll retire soon ))).
Most of the detecting community/market are retired folks. Catching the baby-boomers would be premium.
As long as Dave J. does not retire (he's approx 63/64)..... we may achieve the next plateau..... and then some.
I find this "thrill of the find" & "treasure hunting" is in everyone's blood. It's human nature (and instinct). I'm surprised the advertising guru's have not caught on to this. My gosh, this hobby is still not yet discovered. (Understatement!).

Mike,
The F-5 is a truly amazing unit.... considering the bang-for-the-buck. It lends itself as a very useful tool with unique properties/attributes other units do not employ. I understand your feelings.... yet, I'm one of whom pushes the envelope to max..... and demands more. The F-75 has a bit more depth.... with greater featureset,,,, making it hard for me to compromise.

Tom

Tom

Your words "if only folks realized just how serious this hobby truly is."
Can you please elaborate. I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
Can you also explain in a little more detail why a Canadian nickel is a good test target and how to use that information.
Great forum.

Tom

Finding old, rare silver coins.... or a expensive diamond ring is one thing. But..... to find items that are priceless in nature; discovering historical events and rewriting history books is where 'value' truly begins.

Newer Canadian coins. Take a magnet to a modern Canadian nickel, dime or quarter. You will see that it has a ferromagnetic component to it. A iron content. This makes it difficult for a detector to know what/how to ID the target. ESPECIALLY in magnetic soils. They do pose unique test samples with varying ID performance results to different detectors. ---I would not worry about having Fe coins in your test-sample collection and/or test-garden..... unless you live in a country that produces iron based coins.

Thanks Tom.
I never thought about re writing history. That puts a whole new perspective on it.

I live in Canada so nickels will become part of my test garden.

Thanks
Tom

MIKE HOW DO YOU PROGRAM YOUR F5 FOR MORE DEPTH...I ALSO LIKE THE F5 THE MORE I USE IT. IT IS A NICE TURF HUNTER FOR ME BUT A DD WOULD MAYBE LET ME USE IT IN CALIF GROUND FOR RELIC HUNTING. I STILL LOVE THE F75 IT IS MY MAIN MACHINE AND I TRULY TRUST IT

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Tom & Turtleman,

The Canadian nickels I planted in the test garden are all pre-1981 nickel composition nickels. Pure nickel. Nickels made from 1982 to 1999 are .75 copper/.25 nickel, while from 2000 forward we are told all nickels are .945 steel/.035 copper with a nickel plating. Some nickels in that time range are composed differently as indicated by their lack of magnetism.

Tom, the reason I buried a real nickel composition "nickel" was to make an assessment on the 75's ability in disturbed high mineral ground wrt valuable low conductives of that size. Even the real nickel composition "nickels" are indeed magnetic.

Jim.

Lowboy,

The key is to match the Gain setting to the ground mineral strength. You don't crank the F5, you tune it.

The F5 will let you achieve the same results with multiple Gain/Threshold combinations. For example; A gain/threshold combination of 50/+5 will give the same distance in air as a gain/threshold combination of 90/-1. Or a 65/+2 combination. If all three combinations give you the same results in air, which setting will give you the best results in the ground? The one that doesn't boost the ground signal so much that you can't hear smaller responses. But there is more than depth, you also can tune signal stability, how hard or how soft the target id locks on. And just like it gives you visual clues for ground balancing, the F5 gives you visual clues as to mineral strength so you're not guessing in the dark.

Plus this thing has the heat to hunt chains in disc mode

I tell you, its sweet.

HH

Mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2009 05:21AM by Mike Hillis.

Tom,

I have been caught up in projects that have already rewritten history.... and (hopefully) soon to be released. A major undertaking. CZ-6a w/large coil utilized.

Jim,

Thanks for the detailed clarification IRT Canadian nickels. Yes, the element 'nickel' is not paramagnetic nor diamagnetic; rather, it is ferromagnetic. I was unaware there was a era 'window' where Canada made a standard 75%-copper 25%-nickel 5-cent piece.

WOW I been gone for tooo long, great new treads..Intresting Ideas folks..