Head-to-Head Clarification

As detectorists........ we like to compare Brand 'E' to Brand 'F'. In order to ascertain scientific 'solid/valid' data............... a easy-to-make error comes to light.

If real-world undug targets are to be compared (one detector vs another detector)............... EACH detector needs to be set/optimized for each target.

Said differently: The design engineer(s) of Brand X detector have a certain 'mindset' for factory "preset" performance. The design engineer(s) of Brand Y detector may have a different 'mindset' for factory "preset" performance. Brand X presets may be 36% performance level. Brand Y presets may be 77% performance level. This alone will void head-to-head validity ..... whilst 'comparing' detectors.

ALSO!!! Equally important. If both Brand X and Brand Y detectors Sensitivity are BOTH set on '90'................. this may sound 'equal' ....... yet....... this is NOT the same! Brand X units overall performance level may be at 54% of maximum performance. And Brand Y units overall performance level may be at 98% of maximum performance. EVEN WITH BOTH units Sensivity set on '90'. xxxxxxxxx What one engineers mindset thinks '90' should mean.............. vs ................. what a different engineers mindset thinks '90' should mean........ ARE NOT THE SAME!

Be very, VERY careful! This is why factual/solid/irrefutable scientific data is hard to collect.

And what if only a "silver dollar" is used for head-to-head performance comparison. What if only a "gold dollar" is used for head-to-head performance comparison. The 'conductivity' of these two targets are dramatically different. One detector may "win" the head-to-head comparison on low conductors. The other detector may win the head-to-head comparison on high conductors. (((In this case..... which detector is the winner))). Or............. Brand X detector is far superior with the low-conductor gold dollar........... in mild ground................. BUT............... is a complete failure in mineralized ground.............. and Brand Y detector THEN takes the lead (unsuspectingly)....... in mineralized ground.

((( I bite-my-tongue to a bloody stump each time I watch a head-to-head video...... or read a head-to-head comparison ))).

All of this (above) information is in addendum to my Head-to-Head Comparison article.

"Standardization" is hard to achieve............... if the logical/sequential set of parameters are unknown/not-abided.

PLEASE BE SCIENTIFIC ABOUT DATA COLLECTION.

Thank you.
I feel it is also very important to note that before performing a head to head test that the "testor" know the machines very well to be able to intelligently TEST them.
It cracks me up every time somebody try's this and says "yeah its crazy! The UPS dude just rolled up and I got this bad boy already to go to test against this brand X flagship!".
C'mon man common sense should tell one youve gotta spend weeks w any machine till you really feel comfortable/and know how to use it adequately.

I guess there are those that feel watching enough YouTube and reading forum chitchat from so called experts all they need....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2012 01:48PM by Aaron.

Tom,

And after all of this, we have to take into account the User Human Factor. In my case, I am most definitely a very different hunter towards the end of a hunt than at the beginning of a hunt. Some days, I just wake up with a different head on.

And so when we test a machine against another, which hunter showed up to do the tests? What about our expertise level with the different machines? Aside from doing the test in a laboratory under controlled conditions, I don't see how we can do it out in the field both because of the factors you mentioned and because of the many other variables.

Whenever I see a person talk about how they got a new detector and then went to a hunted-out spot and they began making finds, I wonder if they weren't being more careful with the new machine than they were with the old, familiar one and that's the reason they are making the finds. Perhaps if they returned with their old machine, and slowed down and kept the coil on the soil and overlapped appropriately, they would find the same coins they are finding with the new one.

Pinpoint twice, dig once

Wow hard to top that interpetation and lets not forget the nut behind the wheel as that has to be dialed in also.

Lets face it some guys excell with brand A while others brand B and guess thats why they make blue chevies and red fords....and no perfect unit as all have their give and take aways....

Good informative post Tom and guess thats why I never watch those head to head videos or read the field tests with a grain of salt...

In the end the only thing that matters to me is my personal results with any machine.The guy on the other side of town may be digging old silver like crazy with unit x but that in no way means I will get the same results.
I go on several road trips with a couple of buddies that use exact same units/coils that I do,all with a great manny hours experience but we get different results as far as finds go.Sometimes one of us will far surpass the others in good old coin finds and other times we will be about equal.One two day trip resulted in first buddy digging a 4 dime slam and the other missing it by a rosie.The second day the buddy with the previuos slam missed another by a rosie.They both found additional silver coins as well.
All finds were from well hunted public parks.In the two days of hunting I found 9 Indians and not a single silver coin.

Fast forward to a more recent hunt with second buddy and I found 4 barber dimes a 32 Washington,one Indian and a rosie while he found only a 52 Washington,one Indian and an early Mercury dime as the table had turned.
I guess what I am saying is luck can play a huge factor in the results of any hunt with any detector.The bottom line is you have to pass the coil over the goodies to find them and they have to be at your site to do so.
I am sure beyond a doubt after almost 40 years of detecting with many units that location play the biggest factor in the amount of desireable finds .Faith in your machine of choice is very important as well to keep your head in the hunt.
Obviously some machines excell at certain specific types of sites over others but no machine excells at all types of sites so you must choose what works best for you at your sites.If you hunt many varied types of sites your best bet is to have more than one machine in your arsonal .

I am a one year man. I started detecting one year ago. In March. Started with an ACE250. I discovered Detecting forums abit before this because I am an avid airgun nut and already know how to research via the internet,. I also know to take stuff with a grain of mineralized dirt. (Wiht regard to info gleened from forums). I have determined NasaTom to be a man to listen to. But Tom, you are miles ahead of me, not only in detector related stuff, but science in general.
I don't have any college. Whe I compare one of my detectors to another and then say the words that learned: "head to head", I'm just trying to sound like I know what I am talking about. But here is what I do: I have a test garden with silver dimes, and a few silver quarters, buried at various depths. No deeper than 9 inches because I have YET to have a VLF machine that would detect a coin deeper (except for calling it iron). When I take a detector to the garden, I don't just jack the sens. up and ground baklance and let her rip. I try form all angles, sweep speeds, settings, etc. So far, the AT Pro (who would have thunk it?) has hit the 9 inch coins with something other than an iron sound and tdi number. But really. what I am doing is NOT scientific head to head comparisons.......I JUST WANT A DETECTOR THAT WILL GIVE ME THE EDGE in the school lots and other places. I still have the NEWBIE mentality. I'm humble enough to admit that. But I am trying to learn! I have watched your DVD until I have it memorized and I even find myself copying some of your mannerisms. I put alot of stock in experinced peoples knowledge so that I can learn from them. That is how knowledge has been passed down thru the human race and I am a firm believer in it. I will get on here and make posts that I bet a hundred fellow detectorists roll their collective eyes at and shake thier heads.

None of us will ever compete with Tom's analogy of a detector and get the scientific facts out of the data. Science is his life! I am not programmed to be that analytical and get ALL the variables removed. I always TRY to remove the variables the best I can.

Tom, the problem is the average detectorist is not an engineer and cannot/will not think like one.

Your average detectorist cares about one thing: finding good stuff. If they hit paydirt, then their detector becomes the best ever. Never mind the fact that 90% of that find was just swinging their coil over the right spot. Never mind the fact that a dozen other machines would have given him the same signal. He was using Brand X at the time and therefore Brand X is superior.

Or, they spent a lot of money on their detector, because everyone else told them it was the best ever made, and therefore nothing can top its performance. And woe be unto you if you say otherwise.

Highly un-scientific, highly irrational, highly inaccurate. But what can you do?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2012 07:04PM by smudge.

I know I have more years behind me..... than ahead of me; subsequently, (if possible) I prefer to have the best detector(s) currently available on the market...... so as to 'effecientize' my limited time.

Also.......... my brain only works in 'scientific methodology'. Hard-wired. Can't help it!

pulltabMiner = Yes....... if you get a chance to read (on the home-page of this web-site)..... the article titled: Head-to-Head Comparison Testing....... I believe I cover your reference(s).

I do alot of head to head comparison probably not the most scientific but I try to keep all thing's equal.... But I try not to post my finding's because there is still to many variables to even try and prove or disprove your finding's...

When I see those video's of people comparing one to another..I take the video for what it is....I see far too many people have a biased opinion before they start...You can't be emotinally involved with a detector and test it in challenge...you already know the outcome...

One thing for certain is nothing is for certain...

move over 1 foot and all the testing you just did can flip flop...

everything being equal which ever machine comes out on top in the test just proves it come out on top in that spot ...


Keith

Very true Keith.