I am predicting a lot of the CTX3030 "naysayers" will be eating "crow" a few weeks from now......

earthman --

Understood. Seems like the testers are really "sworn to secrecy" by that NDA, so I'm looking forward to hearing more, once the unit is "released" for sale.

Steve

On the water machine aspect..... there is a difference between being bulky and strong. The rods most of us use for ocean detecting are going to the lighter balanced material. We like the coils to be stream line. The less drag out there in the long shore drift current the better sweep swing we get. That would be like taking a 2X4 out there. I dont even know what advances they may have made to the Pro Coil .... does it float? As far as Andy who writes most of the books on MLs equipment ..... he has an awful lot of access to their equipment and people. He said he wasnt a tester.... someone with imput. Im not sure that doesnt mean he hasnt had access to the equipment. Wouldnt it be nice if you start a thread to not take it personal when people disagree? Sure adds to a more productive discussion.

Dew

Lowboy I'm glad these new machines are coming out to give you some great stuff to read. I hope you are soon well enough to get out there and swing one.

jimmyjiver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi, I know Minelab has not even released the
> selling price yet....So I really don't know where
> everyone has come up with the price of this new
> landscapers dream machine.....I know if it goes
> for the speculated price that's going around, I
> would have to eat some Crow not to mention Road
> Kill because I would not have any money left for
> food after buying it....LoL....JJ


yeah we all need to eat! he! he! he!
although i got enough padding on me to
sustain life for a while! he he he!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

goodmore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most of the negative stuff has to do with the
> price. I think there is a small rallying cry from
> people to try to band together to say to the
> manufacturers enough is enough. Unfortunately we
> are not all in the same boat financially. Some
> will just buy any top model just because they can.
> I have no doubt that the detector itself will be a
> very strong performer. I look forward to the FBS2
> review. But I think that this model is loaded with
> features that I will not use. And I have a hard
> time convincing myself to spend the cash on that.
> I look forward to honest reviews. Especially
> recovery speed.

you got a long wait! figure at least 6 months before a "rational"
buying decision can be made at this price point

(h.h.!)
j.t.

gman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i am amazed at all the chatter over a video with
> no info.


"buzz" sells detectors! they know this!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> earthman --
>
> While I agree with most of your points, I just
> wanted to offer an opinion that perhaps it may be
> risky to take the testers' comments with any more
> than a grain of salt, at this point. You said
> that you spoke to a tester who said the CTX is
> "incredible, and way beyond the E-Trac..." I
> can't imagine the tester saying anything BUT that;
> I personally want to wait until a person I
> percieve to have less "bias" or "vested interest,"
> offer their thoughts on the performance of this
> unit (ideally, NASA-Tom!)
>
> I would think, at this point, that anyone who has
> been permitted to have their hands on the unit
> thus far (pre-release), would NOT be truly "free"
> to offer an "unbiased" perspective on its
> performance. And, given the expected cost of this
> unit, I'm guessing that "unbiased, very positive
> reviews" would be MANDATORY for many users, before
> being able to justify the expense.
>
> Just a thought...I look forward, with an open
> mind, to some good, honest reviews of FBS2...
>
> Steve


well stated! unless ya have one in your own hands,how can ya possibly trust
people associated in any way with minelab? as mentioned in a prevous post,it is my contention
that 6 months listening to regular "unbiased" users,along with" independant" forum response will
be required before making a rational buying decision.also,keep in mind,that the models being produced in the
first year may have engineering,and/or manufacturing "bugs" to resolve so as the man so eloquently stated,
"let the buyer beware"

Lawrenzo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow this is what it is all about you say what you
> feel then you wait till we learn more and then
> when the machine comes out you read the posts from
> the ones that buy it on this forum and then we
> start to learn more and more...I could not spend
> that much money no matter what..but yes it would
> be great to see Nasa Tom give it a spin and read
> what he thinks. IF it is a lot of money like over
> two grand and Fisher/Tek comes out with a new
> platform that works for less..I think they will be
> the winners. I never liked the V3I in color and I
> used that for a number of months and it really
> didn't click with me it was more fun using my G2
> but the V3 was a good park and school machine just
> too much money for something I don't do that
> much.
>
> But it will be fun to read about this new machine
> and what it can do and why it is a better machine
> at what ever it is going to do...I see that
> hunters that understand the Deus and the programs
> are getting more depth understanding the silencer
> less is better just like disc...


funny you should mention the fact the v3 is a good park and school machine!
i keep hearin' how the m6 runs neck and neck in the parks and schools with the v3!
funny part is,the m6 is $600.00 or so,the v3? $1,200.00! hmmmm! whitey's
"secret weapon!" point is,who need a $2,500.00 minelab? he he he!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

I am thinking we will know a lot more both positive and negative within the first month of release.Their are always a few who will sit on the fence for years.I know of a few still sitting on the fence as to trying an E-Trac.Not having the funds is understandable but those that are flush but just to cautious to make the leap often limit their amount of goodies found and the pleasure of using a great new machine.

**** you got a long wait! figure at least 6 months before a "rational" buying decision can be made at this price point ***

Yes, it would take independent testing to confirm the faults/benefits. But it is likely that the word-of-mouth if initially negative will spoil the party for likely buyers. The negative press works to kill sales and the low sales are a self-fulfilling proof that there is a potential problem that kills sales, which encourages negative reviews, etc.

Circular but deadly for sales.

If ML were a bit wiser, they'd have addressed the buyers main fears upfront. The should have known the CTX-3030 would be perceived as a huge let-down due to weight, unnecessary window-dressing, stupid name, etc. This is a good example of how not to market a new detector. Raise expectations, then dash them. Give no definitive information but give just enough rope to hang themselves with it.

If ML were smart the lead advertising would have been, "... detects a nickel to15" in the worst soil ever and easily finds silver quarters 25% deeper than ever before" or some such thing. Instead it's a heavy E-Trac with a huge ugly battery box with color GPS and a clock. Was anyone clamouring for that? In other words, ML led with its perceived negatives instead of the positives (assuming they exist).

Angering buyers by showing unwanted specs is to essentially taunt them, it says: "We are ML and we didn't listen to thing one you say about weight or features and we know you'll buy it anyway - sucker". That is a negative impression they have inadvertantly inflamed. Not their intent to be sure but it the perceived message that counts and it is against them.

Now they have to dig out of a hole.

Hello everyone,
I just got one of Andies books for my Safari. It was well written and very informative. One thing I read on line from Andy indicated that contrary to huge contribution to minelab users via his information it appears minelab has kept him at arms length. He was the proverbial redheaded step child. There when it was good for them but never got to set at the table. I do believe he has a new product to champion - the XP Deus. Therefore he may not be as in tune to this release as he was for the Etrac.

I am very conflicted on the new machine. But I also feel that a lot of that comes from not really knowing enough to form a valid opinion on this new unit. Metal detecting is a very personal edevour even when done in groups. So is our choice of detector so some will like it some will not, some will buy it some will want it but will not be able to afford it. But none of that can be done until we know the truth about this new machine.

Time and user reviews will help all of us. In a few more days Minelab pulls the plug on the secrecy and we all get to form our opinions in the light of day instead in the shadow of secrecy.

I for one can not wait to have the curtains pulled!

Bryanna

Aaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Albert,hoi
>
> According to Andy, he has been involved w the
> development of all the minelab machines prior to
> this CX machine and according to him he and
> someone else had a big part in some of the tech
> that went into this new machine, that he
> originally wanted in the Etrac.
>
> I feel a certain amount of credance should be
> allowed to someone who has such close involvement
> with minelab for so many years.
>
> I'm not here to knock the machine, I'm only
> stating facts and my concerns as a water hunter.

Price point is real interestring for me. It seems like it will be abouit $2500 list price discounted to perhaps $2200.

During my beach hunts I'm in a position to make recommendations on entry level detectors. People are amazed that I don't advise them the $100 ones from Big 5 but rather the $200 Fisher F-2 or Garrett's Ace 250. They think $200 is a LOT to pay. Then they look at my short handled dry sand scoop which retails for close to $50. They always say wow. I don't tell them about the $100 wet sand scoop in my trunk which from other manufacturers goes for upwards of $175.

Of course over about a years period I've received over $2400 gold melt value...and probably another $1000 in clad. But I'm in it for the joy and exercise ... and the fact that the hobby pays for itself...it's a definite bonus.

I can remember...not too long ago when $600 would buy you a trop of the line detector (am I hallucinating?). Then about 3 years ago when I was lusting for the F-75 and thinking how can I justify spending upwards of $1000?

Now the XP Deus is priced at just under $2000. Yikes...$2000 for a hobby metal detector? WOW $2200 for a Super Etrac with color screen?

I don't know.....are we jaded?

Joe (California)

jmaryt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> steveg Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > earthman --
> >
> > While I agree with most of your points, I just
> > wanted to offer an opinion that perhaps it may
> be
> > risky to take the testers' comments with any
> more
> > than a grain of salt, at this point. You said
> > that you spoke to a tester who said the CTX is
> > "incredible, and way beyond the E-Trac..." I
> > can't imagine the tester saying anything BUT
> that;
> > I personally want to wait until a person I
> > percieve to have less "bias" or "vested
> interest,"
> > offer their thoughts on the performance of this
> > unit (ideally, NASA-Tom!)
> >
> > I would think, at this point, that anyone who
> has
> > been permitted to have their hands on the unit
> > thus far (pre-release), would NOT be truly
> "free"
> > to offer an "unbiased" perspective on its
> > performance. And, given the expected cost of
> this
> > unit, I'm guessing that "unbiased, very
> positive
> > reviews" would be MANDATORY for many users,
> before
> > being able to justify the expense.
> >
> > Just a thought...I look forward, with an open
> > mind, to some good, honest reviews of FBS2...
> >
> > Steve
>
>
> well stated! unless ya have one in your own
> hands,how can ya possibly trust
> people associated in any way with minelab? as
> mentioned in a prevous post,it is my contention
> that 6 months listening to regular "unbiased"
> users,along with" independant" forum response
> will
> be required before making a rational buying
> decision.also,keep in mind,that the models being
> produced in the
> first year may have engineering,and/or
> manufacturing "bugs" to resolve so as the man so
> eloquently stated,
> "let the buyer beware"

How do you know the relationship between me and the tester/user? The very same conjecture you accuse me of, you are guilty of. You just think you are more comfortable in your conclusions than I am in mine but the difference is you didn't hear it from the horses mouth. I have a feeling when the machine is released that many, including you, will say, wow, wow, wow, wow - I think I will say, check, check, wow, wow. ;-)

$600.00 can still get one a top of the line machine. If results/performance are used as a criteria, and not the price tag. The Omega and its clone, the AT Pro are two examples that come to mind. Are they salt water machines.....no....will they do Culpepper, VA soil? No! But for around $600.00 they pack a tremendous amount of performance in most areas. But heck, as most here know, there are applications the big ticket machines flounder on. If one adjusts for the devaluation of today's dollar...I think we are getting far more value with certain models of lower priced machines these days..than at anytime in the past. At today's spot silver price...a E-Trac/Deus owner needs to dig approximately 250-300 more silver dimes than my Omega can, under the same detecting conditions, to offset the cost difference. I'll bet with my Omega's 3 coil arsenal ($750.00), I can get 90% of what a E-Trac/Deus can in the turf. If one has a specialized need, sure, go for the big ticket (1500.00 and up) machine. Right tool for the job scenario. Provided one is going to get a half way decent return, whether monetary, historical or simply having a detector that works properly in a unique environment being detected.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2012 09:18PM by TerraDigger.

Bryannagirl,

Its obvious regarding the speculative statements you have made regarding Andy that you do not know him let alone probably never even talked to him.
Why don't you call him yourself and find out his TRUE involvement in MINELAB and get the REAL facts.

Aaron

TerraDigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> $600.00 can still get one a top of the line
> machine. If results/performance are used as a
> criteria, and not the price tag. The Omega and its
> clone, the AT Pro are two examples that come to
> mind. Are they salt water machines.....no....will
> they do Culpepper, VA soil? No! But for around
> $600.00 they pack a tremendous amount of
> performance in most areas. But heck, as most here
> know, there are applications the big ticket
> machines flounder on. If one adjusts for the
> devaluation of today's dollar...I think we are
> getting far more value with certain models of
> lower priced machines these days..than at anytime
> in the past. At today's spot silver price...a
> E-Trac/Deus owner needs to dig approximately
> 250-300 more silver dimes than my Omega can, under
> the same detecting conditions, to offset the cost
> difference. I'll bet with my Omega's 3 coil
> arsenal ($750.00), I can get 90% of what a
> E-Trac/Deus can in the turf. If one has a
> specialized need, sure, go for the big ticket
> (1500.00 and up) machine. Right tool for the job
> scenario. Provided one is going to get a half way
> decent return, whether monetary, historical or
> simply having a detector that works properly in a
> unique enviroment being detected.

Well said Terra. I REALLY liked the Omega and I remember when I "moved up" to the V3i how I went to a virgin spot that I had "cleaned out" with the Omega. The spot was around 20 yds X 20 yds - approx. Well, I hit that spot really really hard with the V3i. I got 2 low conductor hammereds from there! With the Omega I had pulled approx 50 - 75 coils I'd say. I really was shocked. I went back there but only for 5 hours or so with the E-Trac. I did pull a little bit more, but not much - A coin from 8" and a brass relic I must have just missed. And you know what I'm thinking now? Yeah, I'm gonna go there with the CTX3030 and find some really deep coins! LOL, a bit of human nature.

The Omega is just a superb machine. But I just love hearing that high tone on the E-Trac, really it makes that big of a difference to me. So much so that I'll swing with the swingy thingy but that has grown old and I'm hoping the CTX doesn't require it. If it does I might just go back to the Deus, which I was getting on with and really starting to trust it's sounds at around 10 hours of use. I can only imagine after 100 hour of use...

I think a part of detecting that we can't quantify with "How many dimes does it take to pay for it?! LOL (Good one), is the fun from using the machine. I didn't like the Omega's simple sounds and it loss of depth when going to tones. It seemed to max out around 7"-8" in my soil. The V3i's complexity didn't bother me but it's depth came in single frequency and I just loved using it and the features 3 frequency brought. The fun of finding a deeper coin is worth the extra money for me IF I really love what it is that the machine brings. The E-Trac is just damn easy to use (after using a V3i especially). The Omega was Too Easy to use - I like to be able to change a little something more, but ok, if I didn't have the money it WOULD BE MY MACHINE.

If nothing else (though there will be) the excitement this release is bringing, with all the great and terrible comments is exciting. And I'm looking just as forward to that new CZ, but really, I just want one machine and to master it.

Fun fun,
Albert

I'm afraid you will be sitting right back where you started Albert. I doubt that the recovery speed is going to be there. It may be better than the previous FBS models, but not up to par with the Deus or a few others. So I think owning one detector is great, but doing it all with that detector is not going to happen. You mentioned your preference is deep coins over masked coins. So I do think you are making the correct choice. I hear 7:30 PM EST Thursday night more info will be released. I look forward to reviews and filmed hunts.

Silverhound I look forward to your opinion. I know you will put it through some good tests.

I think Albert will love the new machine... I know i will and i know many of the beforehand negative people will do.

I think there is a feature in this machine not talked about ur understood yet and it is about separation, not exactly recoveryspeed.

Not so long ago we talked about symbols of sound signature here, maybe we should have talked about symbols of separation signature instead.

Wow, lots of opinions here on a unit that's not even on the market yet!

Minelab makes some great units. I think this will be another fine unit like many others. I think the biggest downfall is the price. That being said, if it is a "blend" of a GPX5000 and Etrac... the price isn't that far out there and would be a more affordable version for the nugget hunting community. Gold is at an all time high and many more people are hunting for it. Only time will tell. Everybody slammed the Deus too....... until Tom said it was a good performer, now its okay. It was said in an earlier post that if First Texas comes out with a cheaper unit that can compete with performance of these super high-end units, they will be the winner. This is not a booming economy and times are tough... price is everything!!!

quote >>

very accurate reading of the situation
**********************************************

Angering buyers by showing unwanted specs is to essentially taunt them, it says: "We are ML and we didn't listen to thing one you say about weight or features and we know you'll buy it anyway - sucker". That is a negative impression they have inadvertantly inflamed. Not their intent to be sure but it the perceived message that counts and it is against them.


*****************************************************

it took the deus a while to overcome buyers fears and get out their CCs to buy,its not easy selling a new piece of kit at a mega price especially when they now have inbuilt fears contrary to what ML might now claim

Would it be twice as good as an F75SE? At two or maybe three times the price I am thinking like the good doctor, that is just too many pennies to break even. Yeah, you get more with a better machine. Really? That much more? Oh heck, If I started 40 years ago any thing would find more silver than the the best machine today. What's a time machine cost?
Tom

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

The DEUS will continue to please and surprise those will stick with it with its software upgrades alone.

Goodmore - The E-Trac doesn't rely on raw recovery speed to separate targets. It appears to use something along the lines of time domain. I don't know the correct words but for something with a recovery speed as slow as it has (It appears slower than my Omega and V3i) it does better in iron and trashy spots than the before mentioned machines imo (and others have at least said the same about it compared to the V3i, which is clearly quicker). I am confident in the weight not being an issue though, the balance is perfect - Ok, it's no Deus. As you said, I do like finding deeper coins and that alone seems to be a very attractive point. Which relates to:

Aaron - As I said, I really liked the Deus and still might get another one. If money wasn't tight NO WAY would I have sold it. The package is too nice. Light and portable and VERY functional, superb sound. But that said, it clearly has limitations. In my somewhat iron mineralized ground it's VID is all over the place at only 5". I know the sound tells you so much, but if your hunting a park and want to pass clad, it makes it tough (at least at times and depending on your ground.) Also, the deeper targets having no VID - in my ground that starts around 7". I dug around 10 deeper targets with no VID and 1 or 2 of them were keepers, but not coins. As targets get deeper they do get an iron buzz a bit to them, but a good ear can hear that. I dug another 6 targets I thought were deep as they had no VID and they were small and 2" or 3" deep. Now, I probably can learn to avoid that using the pinpoint (I think) and my ears, but I haven't experienced that with other machines before (on the shallow targets). Anyway, again, if money wasn't an object at this time I'd have a Deus and either an E-Trac or the CTX as they seem to be complimentary (depth and separation wise, well, we'll find out about the CTX and how it separates. Might not be fast due to FBS, but still might separate great. The European market is huge and separation is The Key, so I can't imagine it not unmasking well.)

Schultzie - eheeh, yeah, lots of opinions and no machine. Well, looks like Minelab wanted a buzz.

I really look forward to the specs and those first reports from people. Especially those comparing it on targets with other machines and a video camera nearby.

Albert

Eating crow is about what some of us will be able to afford if this machine is two grand...

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

I have a ways to go before I can even go back to work about a year from now maybe longer but I will keep hoping one day I can return to this hobby and share some of my finds in the future..

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Look at this, looks kinda like the new CTX3030........ Just add a color screen

[www.minelab.com]

Tom in SC

Detecting is a passion and it has to be one of the priorities in life to live that passion out.

I am sure i would die earlier without detecting.

Those who are into the best brand fishing equipment and golf equipment can attest that a hobby passion is expensive.

About 15 sets of irons within the last 4 years, a few putters, drivers, etc. And my Shimano Calais DC, although not needed, all helps illustrate your point!!!

Randy

frnifo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Detecting is a passion and it has to be one of the
> priorities in life to live that passion out.
>
> I am sure i would die earlier without detecting.
>
> Those who are into the best brand fishing
> equipment and golf equipment can attest that a
> hobby passion is expensive.

If you read what I said the information I was talking about was from Andy himself. He was venting on another forum about how minelab had treated him. I was taking those statements from him. You could tell he felt slighted by how minelab had treated him. He was talking about in part of the thread where he offered to rewrite or add an addendum to the minelab manuals to help
New users minelab had no interest. My statement on the Deus comes from going to his website. It is obvious this is his new primary interest and I think how minelab has treated him has a lot to do with his new focus. If you want me to find the forum thread where Andy is talking please let me know.

Last the whole point of my thread is that we really do not know the facts yet and most of what we say and think about the new machine is based on very little information. The real truth will come when Minelab releases more facts on the 11th and the detector on the 29th.

P.S. You did seem a bit on the overly negative side when addressing my post, I am not sure why but I was not trying to offend in any way but I do now feel some what offended my self.


Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bryannagirl,
>
> Its obvious regarding the speculative statements
> you have made regarding Andy that you do not know
> him let alone probably never even talked to him.
> Why don't you call him yourself and find out his
> TRUE involvement in MINELAB and get the REAL
> facts.
>
> Aaron

Hi,, Go get em girl....LoL.......The higher the price of a metal detector the more the dealers make that sell them.....Just something to ponder on......Now back to speculation theater.......LoL......JJ