Got to play...Deus & CTX 3030

Ran down to Ringgold, GA this morning to a detector dealer and got a surprise....got to see 3 of the latest machines under one roof. He had the CTX 3030, the Deus, and Blisstool in stock. Since I have the Bliss, I was interested in playing with the CTX and Deus.

I will say this....if I had the money I would have left with both of them.

The CTX is the coolest detector I've had a chance to coon finger and play with. Inside the building, under florescent lights, and that threshold was humming right along and unwavvering. Very impressive. Having came from an eTrac, I was wanting to compare it to that...and there is no comparison. It is lightning quick on target response. Its not as fast as the Deus but more along the line of being as fast as the XTerra machines. The weight/balance issue....Minelab nailed this thing dead on. Once you get it into the detecting position, it feels light as a feather. It would be like swinging a F75 or T2....the got the balance right. All I got to do was play with various targets in the store....various coins and relics, and watch the screen and such. I don't know what it's called, but the way the thing shows you two targets at the same time on the ID screen....that was the most awesome thing I've seen on any detector. It is wild how it does it...shows two different positions on the screen and I kept trying to think of ways to fool it with what I had to test with, and every time it was right on the money with both targets. If it has that kind of ability and accuracy in the ground....that machine is going to revolutionize hunting in trashy sites. I've never seen anything like it. I would love to see if the manual ground balance makes it better in the bad ground. Inside, it air tested very close to the eTrac....so I think the reports of it not being any deeper would be close....but how it IDs is out of this world.

The Deus....also very impressive. I knew it was light weight but you just don't get the full bearing of it until you handle one. I didn't play with all the programs and different frequencies...just left it on Basic 1 and played around. It was very erratic indoors under the lights but I like the overall layout and loved the light weight of it. It don't have the bells and whistles the Minelab has but no doubt it has already proven itself in the field and especially in iron laden sites. If I had the money I'd get both...if I had to pick just one of the two...wow I would honestly have to sit back and think on that for a few days.

The DEUS would of smoothed up ona freq of 18Khz Daniel inside ...

Yes the DEUS is so much more than just lightweight though....it a Very Serius detector not just for iorn laden sites either...the depth is starting to show up now with some tweaking...

I consider it one of the best trash hunter made at the moment....and the depth is starting to come...Like all machine's it takes time to figure out the nuances to achieve depth....they all are very close to depth in the ground...We just have to unlock them....

Don is supposed to bring the 3030 and the Bliss down in a week or 2 for some runs around the house here...

Might do some head to head with the DEUS...Maybe gets some video capture...


Sounds Good Daniel..

Keith

Daniel, being as experienced as you are with multiple machines.....that's quite a positive endorsement on the weight/balance issue. Like you said, the Trace function needs to be tested in-ground...but I have a feeling it will do just fine as mineralization poses little issues to the E-Trac.

TerraDigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Daniel, being as experienced as you are with
> multiple machines.....that's quite a positive
> endorsement on the weight/balance issue. Like you
> said, the Trace function needs to be tested
> in-ground...but I have a feeling it will do just
> fine as mineralization poses little issues to the
> E-Trac.

That's what caught my attention as well - An experienced guy (You Daniel!) giving a good endorsement and the weight/balance of the CTX. That last one had me worried. Yeah, I got rid of my Deus (really light) and then E-Trac which felt too much for me to get a heavier machine in the CTX! What?

I asked a few questions on the target trace and the mod said he uses it all the time, even if the ground is clean. It makes things stand out more and allows you to hunt more peripherally since you can see those traces quite clearly. Nice.

Thanks for the short report Daniel,
Albert

but did the new ML in the shop discrim on pulltabs foil and caps ?what was its response on nuisance targets ?
for big bucks you need special responses .
heavy weight is still heavy weight ,hour after hour swinging on your arm joints .10 mins in the shop means nothing

I have read of problem with the headphones. It seems those that got their detector early are reporting that their headphones like Grey Ghost and Sunray golds would not shut off the speaker. The supplied headphones would. I'm talking about plugging the headphones directly into the detector. Not using the wireless box. It turns out that you must purchase a cheap adapter to get the speaker to turn off.

[www.ebay.co.uk] Maybe Radio Shack sells these.

I'm not making fun. I'm just spreading the word to people on this forum who took the plunge. It seems the adapter helps out with right angle plugs as well. Easy fix. But if you don't know it could be frustrating.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2012 12:40PM by goodmore.

Diggers - I think it's reasonable to say the CTX will be like the E-Trac regarding disc, perhaps a little better in some areas (like with higher sensitivity). I thought the E-Trac was excellent with discrimination, so no worries there.
Regarding the weight, I have directly spoken to people who have used the machine for hours on end and said it felt fine, much lighter than the E-Trac. Daniels comment just added to what we have been hearing. If the weight is a problem, you will hear it from me. Understand, 5 pounds is not heavy, but even a 3 pound detector poorly balanced is. There is a maximum weight that can be balanced well and then beyond that it doesn't matter. I think it was Daniel or Dan that commented on how the GPX with the weight behind the elbow feels light and he swung it all day with no problems. Said it felt lighter than the T2. I'm using a lot of posts and input from people who have swung the detector, not 10 minutes of Daniel in the shop.

Goodmore - I'm very involved in the headphone threads and am getting some resistance from mods and members. Some people have said that it is the users fault for not waiting till things are worked out. Mods have said that it is basically new technology with older headphones. The danger right now is that any criticism means you are a basher and I'm trying to show a reasonable perspective. (The board is so divided, amazing to observe.) My response was basically this:

Start Quote
I ordered the cheap (2 Euro) stereo to mono adapter you mentioned on the other forum. It is a cheap solution but the problem could be that it is a rather long extension and if you come down on that the wrong way, oops, expensive problem.

The headphone issue is only an issue for those of us with the starter pack. It is considerably less expensive and I would like to use my headphones as would many.
The point is that we shouldn't have to use an adapter, rewire headphones or purchase a substantially more expensive wireless headphone module to get headphones to work. The company (Minelab) should make their machine/headphone-socket work with others headphones, not the other way around. That is my opinion and I have a feeling and observe (from reading) the opinion of most of those with expensive headphones that won't work directly with the unit (no wireless module).

To call a majority of the headphones out there "old style" is a bit misleading. Most advanced hunters are using the best that is available, and without the wireless module or an adapter, many of them won't work. That is on Minelab. And I'm not bashing here to anyone who wants to label me as such. I'd like to be able to express my concerns without being grouped as a troll, basher, etc. I have by far and away mostly great things to say about the machine. Like I said, I'm ordering the machine, I really like Minelab's and this isn't a deal breaker. But clearly this is on Minelab and not all the other manufacturers of headphones. End Quote

Albert

Don't have to walk on eggshells here. Truth and civility is the backround here, wouldn't you say?

"The company (Minelab) should make their machine/headphone-socket work with others headphones, not the other way around. "

Another strategic sales move .........Minelab is basically saying ....." Sure , we'll sell you the starter pack for less money if you want to use your headphones , but this is what you have to do, and remember , your headphones will not be waterproof " ....... You're already spending too much money on this detector , what's another few hundred ? ....... Go for broke !!..... Now that they have the machine already in production , if they did not sell very many of them , and they saw that people wanted a "slimmed down" version of the machine for less money , perhaps they would build one ...... If people are going to buy into them as they are , they won't bother ...... We are our own worst enemies .....Jim

Fast forward to the fall and when reports start coming in from intelligent forum members the pro's and con's will stand out...

I do like the idea of visiting a local dealer and sort of trying them on for size to begin with as pictures videos etc. can only tell you so much and hands on is where one should start...

I was in Atlantic City for the Minelab dinner and got a chance to check out the CTX. Really cool unit, and it does have more features than an E-Trac (which I have) and it did feel more balanced. But to me it still felt a bit forward heavy ( ie, more weight distributed down towards the coil) but now where near how an E-Trac feels with the 11 inch Pro coil on it.

I have an F75 LTD and can swing that all day and not feel any strain during the hunt and very little the next day. For me personally, based on how the CTX felt, I THINK I would end up feeling it a bit (notice I stated think since I have not hunted all day with a CTX yet).

Hate to say it, but as I get older, I want to use a unit that I can hunt all day with and not feel it too much in my shoulder and elbow. Tendonitis is a b--ch and the only thing that cures that pain is rest or not aggravating it too much. So how light a unit is or how it is balanced is becoming one of the major features of a unit for me. Heck, I had to mod my CZ's so they are mounted on straight shafts under the arm so I can use them all day. I don't even use my E-Trac with anything but the Sunray 5 inch coil in parks and old yards because that 11 inch Pro Coil on it makes it feel like a ton after about an hour and even the 8 inch Sunray gets to feel a bit heavy. Gotta be that forward weight of the E-Trac that gets me.

So that Deus is looking good in my book, but I am gonna hold off a bit, cross my fingers and hope Fisher comes up with a CZ type unit in an F75 design that is just as light weight and balanced so I can do a 6-8 hour hunt and not feel like I have been shot in the shoulder and elbow the next day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2012 01:33PM by therover61.

Good logic rover wonder those fellows ever made it with the wrist breakers from way back...Just looking at old pictures make my wrist ache....

Must have been a method to their madness as I believe Nautilus gives you a choice of either or at least did until recently...old habits hard to break for some old timers..

Gosh those guys down under must have big arms..

Trying to really lighten the load myself to stay in hobby as with diabetic legs whether one realizes or not the weight transfers to the legs..

I swear, had some of you guys been around back when the wheel was invented, you would have complained saying it was junk because "nothing works as good as carrying or dragging stuff". Balance in a detector or anything else is critical. It's not so much as what it weighs...it's how it's balanced.

You can have a 3 pound detector and if it's not balanced right, it feels heavy. The AT Pro is a great example of this. Physically, it weighs like 3.03 pounds. That's the listed weight of it. Yet its balance is wrong...it is coil heavy and thus swinging it after a while, it gets fatiguing. I could tell as soon as I picked one of those up, that it was going to be a coil heavy machine and what that was going to mean in the field. The CTX wasn't like that. It is balanced very well. I'm telling you guys...if you are counting it out based on the weight of it without ever picking one up, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. I'm actually a little concerned about how well it is going to swing in the water...in my opinion, that's what made the AT Pro a bit understandable. On land it was coil heavy....in water, the heavier coil weight helped to swing it in the water. Since the CTX feels good on land...makes me wonder if the coil end being light, is going to be harder to swing in water.

I wasn't trying to give a huge review on either machine. I was in the shop for about a little over an hour playing with each of them. That's longer than some forum folks give a machine after buying them and deciding to sell them I was just happy to get a chance to play with both machines for a little while. I know it's not in ground and all that...but I'm saying the total interface and such of them are very interesting and fun to play with.

The discrimination on the CTX seems pretty solid to me. At least in air testing. I played with it in the stock coins program and relics program...and it still shows you where the rejected targets are coming in on the screen via cursors. If you have an accepted target and rejected target in your hand....and pass it under the coil, it will give the correct audio for the accepted target and show its location...and you wont hear anything for the rejected one, but will still see on the graph, where it shows up. It's rather neat. I do think its only application is going to be for really trashy sites. It's amazing how much faster it is though. There's no audio vs visual lag anymore...if you hear the audio, it has numbers and cursor position on the screen at the same time.

Don's shop is only about 30 minutes from my bad ground bullet site. I am going to send him an email and see if he can get loose one day here soon, and get him up there and we'll see how they do in actual bad ground. The field is cut but the ground is hard as a rock...I'm interested in seeing how they do in the bad dirt. I know if they work good there, they will really work good in the good ground.

It seems that once we have problems with the arm and shoulder it is with us for life. I don't think it would be a reach to say that the old detectors did some wear and tear on us. As I look around at older veteran hunters they are the first to complain about weight. I had to opt for the Swingy Thingy with my E Trac.

I heard from a few sources now that the new 3030 is not as quick in recovery as the Deus. I personally have no idea. Maybe it does things differently than the Deus.

I will wait for the reviews. But I have not ruled out getting one. I need a water unit.

But I would like to add one last thought about the marketing of this new detector. I have read and personally heard from a dealer that the extra coils and waterproof headphones are not ready for purchase. Maybe instead of that cute release a little info at a time game Minelab should have got their @#$% together.

N/T



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2012 03:53AM by Kevin B.

Kevin - Ouch, I can relate to your back spasm story. I have never been crippled while detecting, but the day after is just brutal if I hunt for more than 4 hours or so. Unfortunately it isn't completely from poor balance but also from the twisting motion. So, now I'm learning to not swing so wide and just stick to better balanced machines. I'm pretty in shape actually, just an old ruptured disc which is mostly healed (from the MRI) and those old injuries is where our stress seems to go back to.

It is exciting lately with the Deus having made noise and now the soon to be out there CTX. Again, I am really looking forward to that New Fisher CZ. A much simpler and cheaper machine that is light and deep is going to ATTRACT LARGE NUMBERS OF USERS. I am sure they improved how they work in iron and probably have a DD coil (option) as well as VID. (drool image ;-)

Goodmore - I can't argue with not having the coils ready. I guess it will make me learn the stock coil better, so not a big deal to me. Funds are tight also.
No way will the CTX be as fast as the Deus. But, it will still be good at unmasking using it's time domain twist on VLF. Judging by how many E-Tracs are still being used in the UK (along with the Deus), I don't think the end result is that far apart.

Albert

I actually think it is a bit of a reach to place the blame on detectors for physically hurting people. Physical labor was a lot more PHYSICAL and harder back then. Those old timers and veteran detectorists actually done work instead of sitting and pecking on keyboards or standing and watching a robot run and do the work. If they worked on farms...there is a crapload of phyiscal work that machinery has taken the place of now. In manufacturing factories, robots and automated systems have replaced the physical repitor that our older folks use to do from day to day with nothing but manpower. I think day to day work, EVERY DAY of their lives, is where the blame can be placed for physical ailments on that generation. Some of them even worked two shifts a day for 14-16 hour days. Where I work at now, you can only work 12 hours and then they send you home. And my whole job is running eight CNC lathes...basically the machines run themselves...all I do is keep an eye on the tools, change them when needed, and make sure the parts coming off of them are within spec via measuring instruments. It's longer hours but it's NOTHING phyiscal. The only bad part is standing on concrete for 12 hours. So I have a hard time thinking that swinging a metal detector a couple times a week for a few hours is to blame for damaging people's bodies. If a person done that motion for 8-12 hours a day and every day for 20-30 years...yes I might agree with that.

Hey Keith,
I own the Deus and have logged more hours than probably anyone in the US, I've owned an E-Trac for about 3 years and have used the Blisstool on a few outings.
Knowing nothing about the performance of the CTX other than what's been posted - it just being AS GOOD AS an E-Trac (in depth and target ID) will have it beating the Deus (in depth and traget ID) - my opinion of course. Yes the light weight is great but other than in iron laden situations the Minelab has it beat. Did I say the light weight is great...?
The Blisstool has it's place - we know where and when that is.

I'm sure you will see for yourself with Don. I've got my Deus tuned for maximum depth and great sensitivity - it was awful in Culpeper.

Remember the Deus was developed for Europe. The best finds there are LOW conductors: from 12-03 to 12-25 (on the E-Trac). Hammered silver and gold staters. That's why most of the UK guys use 12khz or 18khz. Also - they dig everything that's not iron. No cherry picking. I've detected there with my E-Trac - I know the drill. I'm going back in Oct but this time with the Deus...

So other than in a very iron infested site - the E-Trac will win. The E-Trac (and probably the CTX) is known as a silver magnet. The Deus is a low conductor magnet. BUT I take the Deus with me to my clean plowed farm fields and leave the E-Trac home. I'm content with the target ID and getting all the stuff an E-Trac will get in the top 8". And did I say the weight is great??

N/T



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2012 03:54AM by Kevin B.

"I swear, had some of you guys been around back when the wheel was invented, you would have complained saying it was junk because "nothing works as good as carrying or dragging stuff". Balance in a detector or anything else is critical. It's not so much as what it weighs...it's how it's balanced. "

You can balance an anvil but its still heavy

Hobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I swear, had some of you guys been around back
> when the wheel was invented, you would have
> complained saying it was junk because "nothing
> works as good as carrying or dragging stuff".
> Balance in a detector or anything else is
> critical. It's not so much as what it
> weighs...it's how it's balanced. "
>
> You can balance an anvil but its still heavy

Sayings are great, as are analogies, but we can lose the meaning at the same time and you are bringing up an extreme example in an anvil. 5 pounds is not an anvil. I would imagine that the 7-10 pound range is heavy no matter what the balance is but I don't know. I can only go by what people have said that have swung the CTX, some of them over 60 years old and used it for hours in a day (e.g "Digger" a mod on Finds). The story from Daniel with a GPX which weighs about the same as the CTX is also taken to heart. Most detector are between 2.5 and 3.5 pounds that I have seen, maybe a bit more. That is pretty light, but balance is key. The AT Pro is coil heavy, but only 3 pounds, for most of us 7 hours would be felt due to that. The CTX is just a bit more than the E-Trac but is PERFECTLY balanced. I'm not touting it, I'm just saying it is perfectly balanced. I saw the video of a man hanging it from his index finger below the grip and it was angled down EXACTLY at the detecting angle. That means that weight is distributed perfectly, not just behind the elbow, but in how you hold it. That is great, perfect in balance, best I've seen actually.

When I get a CTX (hopefully I do), I will be very honest about the weight and performance as I have been with all my detectors. And that has caused problems on Finds, but not here. We can shoot from the hip and be honest.

Basically there is a bell curve of optimal weight and balance and it is probably interchangeable to a point (lighter weight makes up for poorer balance and perfect balance makes up for weight withing the bell curve optimal range). Pass that peak point of balance or weight and it doesn't matter much, but stay within it and everything is ok.

I am in my 40's and hunt alot of hours a week...But I can tell now I cant do what I use to be able to do a decade ago....Swinging machines for 30+ years takes a toll on your upper back muscles...Mine ache all the time...I dont go a day without aching sore upper back muscle's...Feels like I am being stabbed all the time even right now...

I have back problems bad disc the doctors say...deteroriated .All they want to do is give pain pill's ...Never took one yet... dont plan on it either and I hurt pretty darn good every day of my life........I like lighter machines but still manage with a 5900..it weighs about 5 pounds I guess..

But if you have ever been in pain you know ever little but will help...

Heck I used an axe the other day for about 2 hours and I paid for it for 3-4 days ..LOL!! 10 years ago I would not of noticed it....

Take care of yourself when you can and do whatever you can to stay healthy.....

Getting older and not sure yet about the wiser ...

I will say this though people are not getting lazy I dont think ...I think they are just getting used to easier wasy of doing thing's...I work hard still and walk for miles up and down hills looking for places to hunt...

But I do like to have air-conditioning in my house....Yet a couple of decades ago I did not have none...and I was just fine ..but after getting one in my house I think to myself how the heck did I sleep without it..Hard to give up stuff mentally and sometimes physically after you get used to it...

I change my T.V. channels with a remote ....used to I had to get up and turn the rotary knob ...I think to myself how did I do that ..but then again there was only 5-6 channels and the T.V. we had was black and white ...

Ha-Ha Poor people we were LOL..

Sad thats the only comparisons I have for my lifetime

.....Imagine a guy from the 1800's ...no electricity.. no car . ...grow your own food or die....But they were better off than the guys centuries before living under a ruling class society.. and not owning nothing and your only crime was being born poor......those 1800's guys knew they had freedom and the labor was welcome............... true pioneer's..

Keith



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2012 10:04PM by Keith Southern.

As soon as you pick up a detector, you can tell it's going to be uncomfortable, just by the muscles needed to hold it in the swing position. I said on another post, it is ballanced and hangs there nicely. With little shoulder movement the 3030 allmost swings itself.....I think it will surprise you, I was.

I posted this over at Find's a couple days ago...

It is what it is. A hefty VLF detector with a hefty price tag. No one is forcing anyone to buy one.
The prudent buyer will wait and see the field reports, test one out, or even wait and see
what is on the horizon before making a decision.
Fisher, for one, will be coming out with a new model soon. It is certainly easy to get caught up in the hype.

Then you have to ask yourself: do you really NEED a new detector... or do you just WANT a new detector?
I've been detecting for 41 years. I've been through this before. I recall paying for two different detectors well
in advance of getting them. I waited two monts for one and three months for another. MAN I just HAD to be
on top of the list to get them. One of them ended up being buyers regret.

I'm 64 1/2 years old. Weight, no matter HOW WELL BALANCED a detector is, is a factor. For the first 30 years
I used what everyone did. Starting with a Whites 63TR that bad boy was a handfull. No ergonomics whatsoever.
But when your in your mid 20s who cares? Well 40+ years later my wrists, back, knees, and elbows care!
Detecting was not just a hobby... it was an obsession! I always worked night shifts. Metal detecting 6+ hours a
day 6 or 7 days a week was the norm. It caught up with me a few years back. Had to start hip mounting and
chest mounting my detectors.

Thanks for the info Barry...

One thing I have wondered about and plan on doing it...have you tested the DEUS against the etrac/other deeper seeking machine's 1266 etc.. while using the 4-8 KHZ freq with reactivity low and silencer on -1....

I consider the 1266 one of the deepest machines made in disc mode (when you are tuned in with it) till this day coil size for coil size..And it's 20 years old...I notice the blisstoll sounds remarkably like a 1266 in way's and that could be good....

I have found that the DEUS 4Khz is also deep in the ground... (2 f.e. bar's reading 83 on a F75 LTD for reference)...15 inches on a quarter is no slouch....no I.D. but does it quite well and still get's splattery on deep iron at the same time....

alot of testing done with the DEUS need's to be matched properly slow machine like to go deep ..Put the DEUS on slow......Also the DEUS only has a 9 inch coil stock the Etrac an 11inch....I know the etrac is deep I have had one and used one...but the DEUS needs a larger coil 11 Inch to be more in line...



I will see what I can come up with With Don...Hope the bliss is really deep...Will compare it too a blue and gray also....

One thing I have learned after messing with a multitiude of detector's....unmasking can make or break a machine but depth for the most part can be gotten with a lot of detector's by learning certain sounds...I know on the DEUS will get deep but it will sound like ground noise at first on the stuff an explorer might hit on better audio wise...but they are both still hitting the target......


I still see more modern advances being made with unmasking as compared to depth...It's hard to get the real depth we need on todays design's I believe they are about tapped out...I would like to see a machine hit and i.d. ( simply iron or not at depth) a minnie ball at 20 inches. in even semi bad dirt... that would open up a whole new layer of relics...and last for a long time to come in areas to hunt...

Thanks for the info..

Keith

Daniel Tn....I will have to disagree with you on the injuries perspective. Poorly designed detectors with bad ergonomics can/do cause permanent injuries. Its not always other physical activities that are causing the health issue. Most people think permanent joint/tendon/ligament injuries come from a single major trauma. That is incorrect. Most permanent injuries of this type are a result of "repetititive" micro injuries of the same area over a long period of time. Good real world example......tennis elbow. How much does a tennis racket weigh? Not much. Yet it can cause permanent damage due to the micro-trauma it causes. Swinging a poorly balanced item (detector) thousands of times in a short time span can also induce micro trauma.
E-Trac's have a world wide (hundreds/thousands of users) reputation of either causing pain/problems where none existed before or aggravating already existing issues. There are many other units that also do same, its just that the Trac is the most (in)famous.

I used to work in rehabilitation medicine...so I would like to think I know a few things about this.

Credit needs to be given to Dave Johnson & team for developing a line of machines that are ergonomically friendly to the detectorist. Sure, one can get a machine that goes a bit deeper or has a cool feature....but at what cost? Cutting one's hobby/passion short by 10 or 20 years due to injury. Dave J./team did a great unsung service to our hobby that hardly anyone notices.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2012 11:28PM by TerraDigger.

Thanks for taking the time Daniel. Three machines I'm on the fence about. Loved reading your thoughts.

Randy

Daniel,

It has nothing to do with the detectors or the swinging of them thats damaging our bodies. Our bodies are ALREADY damaged ! HA ! You are still a young buck. When you hit the 50's and beyond, those aches and pains are just a little more of a pain in the butt, and it takes longer to heal. Simple fact of life.

Seeing how the Blisstool is made, for me it may be a better unit, balance and feel wise, than the CTX. The extra weight, no matter how light, of the screen on the CTX, may make it feel to me, more coil heavy. I don't know, maybe it's just in my head, but when I swung the CTX at the show, it seemed kinda the same as an E-Trac for me.

I guess I'm hardnosed on this weight issue thing. I just think it's human nature to always want to play the blame game. It began in the garden of Eden when Adam and Eve partook of the fruit of the tree of knowledge when God confronted them about it....Adam blamed Eve...Eve blamed satan. The blame game is nearly as old as sin itself. Kevin uses the eTrac case with his back spasm as an example because that's what he had in his hand when it happened. When in fact I've seen the very same thing happen with my mother when she picked a gallon of milk up at the grocery store. Was it the gallon of milk's fault? Nope It's just what she had in her hand at the time it happened. Does it happen every time she picks up a gallon of milk? No. I've seen her go months and never have another problem out of her back and then simply bend down to pick up a small stick in the yard, and down she go and be down for a week or so.

Tennis players and such are exerting a great deal of force on their elbows with the tennis racket that don't weigh much. The force of which they swing just doesn't dissolve..it is absorbed by something...that something is joints/muscles/tendons. That force does cause the stretching and ripping of muscles and tendons. Metal detecting is a different motion and not done as forcefully. If somebody is swinging/whipping a detector around like a tennis racket then I can see it causing ripping and damage of muscles. Not so much in actual detecting speed and scenario. You're not swinging the detector the whole time you are hunting either. A great deal of time is consumed in target recovery and such. I hunted for about 6 hours yesterday and was physically more drained from the heat and walking up 45 degree angle ridges than I was from actually detecting. Heck, my Predator shovel weighs more than my detector does and my detecting belt (carpenters belt with harness) complete with ProPointer, 4 or 5 bottles of water, and such, weighs probably 15-20 lbs extra. Especially when I am carrying out all my junk or in the case of VA hunts...carrying out all the 60+ bullets and such you find by the end of the day. I will just be 30 this year and I can already tell a difference between now and when I was 20....in EVERYTHING I do. Use to I would work 12 hours on 2nd shift....get off work on Friday at midnight, drive up to the mountains and stay up all night til daylight on Saturday morning when legal fishing time came around....fish all morning, then drive back home, clean fish, take a shower, and go in to work for 10-12 more hours and never feel a bit tired. Now when I work 12 hours I'm ready to go home, take a shower and hit the bed. In my teenage years I've worked all day in the sun out in the hay fields, hauling and stacking square bales of hay....pending on the grass type ane bale size, some bales were 50-75 pounds each....and I've done it all day from daylight to dark, from field to field....then leave and go do other stuff and never be sore from doing any of it in the following days. We square baled a 30 acre field on our farm and hauling and stacking that one field had me wore out when we finished it and when I woke up the next day I was so sore I didn't want to move. All that is, is simply getting older and lazy...out of shape. Down at the gym there was a 60 something year old man that is in better physical shape than most 20 somethings I know.

Man how do we get on these rabbit trails in threads? LOL

N/T



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2012 03:56AM by Kevin B.