Which Unit Is Better On Nickels?

Which would be better on nickels...the CZ-3D or the CZ-70PRO .....or is it pretty much the same?

CZ-70 for modern nickels......................... CZ-3D for older generation nickels (assuming both units are calibrated correctly).

Hummm i see an assumpting here. I wonder if all the high prices of gold has put a dent in the pull tab population? Will we one day be tab free.... if so will chewing gum wrappers be next?

Dew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2012 11:47AM by dewcon4414.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hummm i see an assumpting here. I wonder if all
> the high prices of gold has put a dent in the pull
> tab population? Will we one day be tab free....
> if so will chewing gum wrappers be next?
>
> Dew


Pull tab free?---You gotta be jokeing dew--not in our lifetime.----Zowie, the number of those things the wife & I (still) come across in our hunts in the mid-west, SW & western U.S.-------On another front--I heard it mentioned/questioned---is that aluminum looking pull off seal under some of these liquid container caps going to be the pulltabs of the 2000's?-----I personally haven't seen those seals as being a problem (yet)---but who knows?--------Del

Best Nickel Machine I ever used was a Sovereign with a 180 meter. Very accurate. In fact I know where I'm taking my new GT to hunt Buffalos.

For those not aware older nickles especially corroded shield or V or extremely deep Jefferson come in lower but the makeup of the CZ3D in advanced mode compensated for this and catches them in the nickle segment. Basically high foil on most units.....no matter what manufacturer or meter....

As far as pulltabs our local hundred year park has a layer of the old round one 4 to 6 inches deep so they are never going to go away....and new foil tops and such as just another headache for goldring hunters...

Amazing some of our clad comes out of the ground half eaten up and pulltabs live forever...

goodmore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Best Nickel Machine I ever used was a Sovereign
> with a 180 meter. Very accurate. In fact I know
> where I'm taking my new GT to hunt Buffalos.

Couldn't have said it better. I've owned many machines from many companies over the years, but the resolution of the VDI on the Sovereign's 180 meter from foil all the way up to copper pennies is the highest I've ever seen. It makes it rather easy to ID nickles. They usually read 144 to 146 and will lock onto one or two numbers. If they jump by 3 or more then it's probably odd shaped trash. Tabs start at about 148 and go up to about 169, so it's rather easy to avoid those and only dig nickles. The super high VDI on it also makes it deadly for gold ring hunting on land. Note 4 or 5 common tab numbers at a site and dig everything else close by that has a stable ID and good audio, as we scanned in over 100 gold rings (randomly pooled) and found that most would lock onto one or two VDI #s, while a lot of trash, in particular odd shaped trash, would change by 3 numbers or more depending on which way you swept over them. I'm finding nickles by the handful at pounded out sites with it. And I'm talking even deep nickles that have been there for years, not to mention older Vs and Buffalos here and there. Even if I'm only old coin hunting I'll still dig those nickle numbers because 9 times out of 10 if the ID is one or two numbers in stability and it has a good audio "round" sound then I'll bet money it's a nickle, and who knows might be a lucky gold ring in that range. Something about at least knowing I'll stand up with a nickle makes it worth taking chances on those even though I may only be silver or copper old coin hunting on that day.

Sure, beyond copper pennies all other coins are 180 on the meter. But the way I look at it when hunting old coins if they are deep or shallow but mixed in trash then all I want to know is that it might be a coin, as I've dug my share of silver coins over the years that read as low as wheats or even lower on machines that had high coin resolution. Ground minerals, being on edge, being in trash, being worn, and so on...All these things can make one coin read like another. Only time I want to tell coins apart is when clad hunting, and since the Sovereign can ID zincs as they read below 180, that's all I want in that respect. If it's a dime or a quarter or above I want to dig that clad.

Also, on machines I've owned with high coin resolution the ID can be rather "floaty" and make good coins seem bad at depth or in trash, or even clean and not all that deep but due to the super high resolution they bounce around like a pinball. That often can talk you out of an otherwise great find, so I'd rather use a more stabile ID that I can be confident is telling me is a good coin signal mixed in there somewhere.

A corollary question would be: With which machine would I find nickels easier?

My V3i can ID a nickel just as well as any machine out there. So can my AT Pro. HOWEVER, since I began using my CZ-3D, my nickel count skyrocketed! I mean, EVERY TIME I go out with the CZ-3D, I find at least 3 nickels. On a recent hunt with a friend, I came home with 12 nickels. In fact, on many hunts with the CZ, the only coins I will sometimes recover is nickels.

The reason, of course, is that the CZ-3D gives off a high tone on the majority of the nickels and I, being preconditioned to respond to high tones, then pay attention and dig the target.

It is a testament to the number of nickels dropped and a testament to the number of nickels ignored.

Pinpoint twice, dig once

Have to agree with the miner CZ's sniff out the nickles and your ratio versus junk is much better than most...

If you are finding a unique/incorrect ratio of nickels (low conductors)........ as compared to all other coins (high conductors)........... this is a dead give-away that the area has been 'cherry-picked' by other detectorists of whom do NOT use a CZ. Most brands/units do not 'high-tone' on nickels. Only the CZ (and T2/F75 now). The CZ's nickel window is the tightest/narrowest in the industry; subsequently, finding the best nickel-to-trash ratio.

My nickel count is defintely up there thanks to my CZ3D and Tom's tune up. One other machine that was great on nickels(Jefferson) for me was the Tesoro Golden, if you set up the notch correctly it will sniff them out..

critterhunter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> goodmore Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Best Nickel Machine I ever used was a Sovereign
> > with a 180 meter. Very accurate. In fact I know
> > where I'm taking my new GT to hunt Buffalos.
>
> Couldn't have said it better. I've owned many
> machines from many companies over the years, but
> the resolution of the VDI on the Sovereign's 180
> meter from foil all the way up to copper pennies
> is the highest I've ever seen. It makes it rather
> easy to ID nickles. They usually read 144 to 146
> and will lock onto one or two numbers. If they
> jump by 3 or more then it's probably odd shaped
> trash. Tabs start at about 148 and go up to about
> 169, so it's rather easy to avoid those and only
> dig nickles. The super high VDI on it also makes
> it deadly for gold ring hunting on land. Note 4 or
> 5 common tab numbers at a site and dig everything
> else close by that has a stable ID and good audio,
> as we scanned in over 100 gold rings (randomly
> pooled) and found that most would lock onto one or
> two VDI #s, while a lot of trash, in particular
> odd shaped trash, would change by 3 numbers or
> more depending on which way you swept over them.
> I'm finding nickles by the handful at pounded out
> sites with it. And I'm talking even deep nickles
> that have been there for years, not to mention
> older Vs and Buffalos here and there. Even if I'm
> only old coin hunting I'll still dig those nickle
> numbers because 9 times out of 10 if the ID is one
> or two numbers in stability and it has a good
> audio "round" sound then I'll bet money it's a
> nickle, and who knows might be a lucky gold ring
> in that range. Something about at least knowing
> I'll stand up with a nickle makes it worth taking
> chances on those even though I may only be silver
> or copper old coin hunting on that day.
>
> Sure, beyond copper pennies all other coins are
> 180 on the meter. But the way I look at it when
> hunting old coins if they are deep or shallow but
> mixed in trash then all I want to know is that it
> might be a coin, as I've dug my share of silver
> coins over the years that read as low as wheats or
> even lower on machines that had high coin
> resolution. Ground minerals, being on edge, being
> in trash, being worn, and so on...All these things
> can make one coin read like another. Only time I
> want to tell coins apart is when clad hunting, and
> since the Sovereign can ID zincs as they read
> below 180, that's all I want in that respect. If
> it's a dime or a quarter or above I want to dig
> that clad.
>
> Also, on machines I've owned with high coin
> resolution the ID can be rather "floaty" and make
> good coins seem bad at depth or in trash, or even
> clean and not all that deep but due to the super
> high resolution they bounce around like a pinball.
> That often can talk you out of an otherwise great
> find, so I'd rather use a more stabile ID that I
> can be confident is telling me is a good coin
> signal mixed in there somewhere.

Do all of the VDIs for the Sovereign have the same accuracy, or is one better than others? I know they can be made using a volt meter. Also is there much difference between the Sov. models ?
Have been thinking about getting a Sovereign. Thanx

Find tons of nickels w/v3i...and they're easy to id...and can be set to hi-tone!!

> Do all of the VDIs for the Sovereign have the same
> accuracy, or is one better than others? I know
> they can be made using a volt meter. Also is
> there much difference between the Sov. models ?
>
> Have been thinking about getting a Sovereign.
> Thanx

The vast majority of Sovereign meters made by Minelab and other companies are "180" meters, in that the voltage scale has been calibrated to read 180 on coins above 180. That's unique on this machine in that all the meters have a calibration pot, so if you change coils and such you can tune the VDI to be totaly exacting in target ID and not a tad "off" like it can be on other machines when you swap coils. The VDI on the Sovereign is generated inside the box as a source voltage, and then sent back down the coil cable to the meter. The meter DOES NOT read the coil, it is sent a voltage from the control box. Because the Sovereign's VDI isn't subjected to layers of software processing it's very instant. What you hear you instantly see in VDI with no lag time. The audio also is subjected to very little in heavy processing, thus you get the raw detailed target traits without a losing something in translation from too much sterilizing or processing on some machines, and those machines also tend to shorten the audio report and give less "meat" for you to pick over with your ears.

Anyway, Minelab originaly came out with a 550 meter, but many people found that scale too jumpy because of too high of resolution. Some are still die hards of that meter, but many others have converted that meter to a 180 scale with a few resistors and a pot change in it. All the other companies based their meters on a 180 scale. Minelab also at one time made a bar graph meter for it but it's very rare, and it showed target conductvity by placing it somewhere on a horizontal bar graph screen. There are also analog meters for the Sovereign for guys who prefer the old style needle analog machines of yesterday. I don't care for that myself because to move a needle takes time, so it makes the VDI a bit slugish when hunting through trash while all the other meters are digital and thus very instantaneous in reporting the VDI.

The accuracy of all the digital meters is the same. The VDI #s will always read the same between them once calibrated to 180 on a dime or quarter. That's the beauty of it, besides changing coils and being able to fine tune it again for them to insure correct target ID. The only thing to remember is that on the GT (and I think the Elite) they can choose one of two noise bands to eliminate interference via a switch. Just about everybody uses noise band 2, as that matches all that ID charts that were made with older Sovereigns who couldn't change noise bands. Noise band 1 makes the mid range stuff such as nickles read a hair off compared to what all the old (and new) charts say, so for that reason everybody uses band 2 unless they are getting bad interference, and then they just note that nickles might read off a hair. I forget if it makes them read up or down the scale a bit different, but the same thing is seen with the Explorer and Etracs. If you switch to other noise bands on them nickles can also read a bit off due to the frequency shift, thus various frequencies hit various conductors a bit different and cause the slight mid level number changes on targets.

There's been many Sovereign models. They all get outstanding depth, but many say the GT is a bit deeper than all prior models and also a bit more sensitive to tiny targets. For some reason (myself included) in certain soils or at certain beaches some people swear their old BBS units are deeper and smoother than their FBS units. As to why I have a few thories, but I won't bore you with that as I've touched on it before. Not saying it's true everywhere, but it appears to be for me in my soil and I have heard others say the same thing. I know one guy who recently said he owned a certain flagship model since it came out, and taking his GT over the same heavy mineral spots he's popping stuff that all the other machines he's used just plain could not see in that muck of minerals or iron rich clay. They key, though, like he said, is that the worse the ground is the slower you need to go, to give the machine time to read the soil and adjust. Move the coil too fast in that kind of ground and you'll lose the threshold and miss stuff. That's the key to all these Minelabs. Even people who think they are going slow still aren't going slow enough. You need to CRAWL, and that means at least a 4 second sweep or more, when you want to find the super deep or badly masked stuff.

Thanx Critterhunter; appreciate the info.

That's a good point about the Fisher giving high tones for nickles. Real nice feature to grab your attention. The Sovereign doesn't give a high tone for nickles, but the tone for a nickle is a bit lower and very distinctive from pull tabs. It will stop you in your tracks when you hear it, as the Sovereign as a wide rich range of tone alerts for the various conducitvity levels.

I could be wrong about this but I think that the issue with the nickels and the CZ-3D goes beyond the high tone.

As someone said earlier, I can set my V3i to give a high tone for nickels but for some reason it is not the same. I swept an area early in the year with my V3i. I got many Buffalo nickels. I was digging every non-ferrous target as the site is very old and had much human activity since day one. I thought I cleaned the place out. I returned with the CZ-3D later and was shocked at how many nickels I missed! And I grid!

This leads me to believe that it is not just a high tone issue but a... processing issue...that is, the CZ-3D will identify the target as a nickel that may have shown up on my V3i as a ferrous object.

To be fair, the V3i is complex and I am still in the process of becoming really good with it but I stand by my theory.

Pinpoint twice, dig once

I think your problem with the Whites is it is a complex unit and gives an excellent ID on nickles...doing something wrong along the way...

Having said the above I don't know why but if there is nickles in the area a CZ will sniff them out as good or perhaps better than any unit on the planet..

Perhaps one of you tech forum member could give us a technical reason why rel the CZ...and perhaps an experienced V3 forum member could help likewise....

I find a few nickels each trip but they are mostly modern 60's and up. Though I have a problem up here in Canada with a type of pulltab that ID's in the nickel range here with a high tone or half medium/half high tone as you swing over it. I'm always thinking, ok heres a nickel and I dig up a pulltab. I hates em, I hates em to pieces!

It's out there fellows! Go get it!
"Ged Peacehavens"

To ID a nickel is somewhat difficult.
To ID a nickel AT DEPTH is even more difficult. This is where a CZ excels. . . . especially a CZ-3D.

Critterhunter

I think it's time for a book on the GT.

TheGeorgiaCanuck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find a few nickels each trip but they are mostly
> modern 60's and up. Though I have a problem up
> here in Canada with a type of pulltab that ID's in
> the nickel range here with a high tone or half
> medium/half high tone as you swing over it. I'm
> always thinking, ok heres a nickel and I dig up a
> pulltab. I hates em, I hates em to pieces!


If it wernt for pull tabs there would not be any Gold rings or nickles left to find. LOL

turtleman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Critterhunter
>
> I think it's time for a book on the GT.

And you are probably the best guy to write it!

New guru book.... maybe you could make a buck or two. Id start with some vedios.

Dew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2012 03:35PM by dewcon4414.

smudge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> turtleman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Critterhunter
> >
> > I think it's time for a book on the GT.
>
> And you are probably the best guy to write it!

If you guys are all (?) refering to me then well...I thought about it a while back, but honestly I only have about 2 to 3 years on the GT. It's very different in many ways than all the detectors I've ever owned, and that includes my Explorers. At first it gave me fits on things like screw caps until I learned it's language (they will warble from one direction and dip to about 178 or so here and there in VDI), and it was hard to get used to the long drawn out response, which made coins sound the size of a can top to me at first. Anyway, there are those with vastly more experience for years with the Sovereign line. And, since the audio is so rich and full with fine variances one never really will stop learning with this machine. I'm not saying it's a harder machine to learn quickly than others. I'm just saying that unlike some other machines I've owned I never seem to stop learning with this one. It's got audio variances that go well into an "advanced vocabulary" class. In other words, I don't think I've learned nearly enough with it to be considered as expert about it as the long time users of this machine. Besides, I've already released my "best" stuff on various forums for it, so there wouldn't be much point in paying for what you can find for free with enough surfing the web. :')



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2012 06:32PM by critterhunter.

Hobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheGeorgiaCanuck Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I find a few nickels each trip but they are
> mostly
> > modern 60's and up. Though I have a problem up
> > here in Canada with a type of pulltab that ID's
> in
> > the nickel range here with a high tone or half
> > medium/half high tone as you swing over it. I'm
> > always thinking, ok heres a nickel and I dig up
> a
> > pulltab. I hates em, I hates em to pieces!
>
>
> If it wernt for pull tabs there would not be any
> Gold rings or nickles left to find. LOL

So true and the same with foil also. And I should mention I'm using a CZ-3D and having the pulltab reading as nickels problem. Also I should mention that some late 80's dimes read as pulltabs up here.