Pin-pointers: Any Ideas on making them better?

OK I have a Garrett Propointer and really like it. I know it is not perfect but it truly has been an asset to my target recovery. Now that being said I still think there is room for improvement. Aside from the obvious things like make it waterproof, on/off for the speaker - I have had some other ideas:

1. Give me a way to discriminate targets. Current thoughts are that pin-pointers should be all metal. If it is made of metal it should sound off. Well that is good but what if we had some form of discrimination as well. I think audio discrimination would be the easiest so when near iron it gives a low tone - middle conductors a mid tone - and high conductors a high tone. The low iron tone would be great cause it would tell you right off the bat some iron masking maybe going on so hunting out the iron first may help you find the other good stuff.

2. Give me a way to check targets deeper in the ground. Now raw depth I feel can be a two edged sword for a pinpointer To sensitive it is hard to find the target. Even my garret at two inches needs detuned sometimes to help find those small elusive targets. So maybe the answer is not raw power. What if your pinpointer had a very narrow profile like a long screwdriver and only the very tip was sensitive. You could not only use it to pinpoint on the surface but could also push into the ground a little to find deeper targets and also get an idea of the depth as well.

3. Integrate the pinpointer with my headphones - Wireless sound. I kind of like the idea of the Uni-Probe by detectorpro except the probe is tethered to your headphones. Take the same idea but make the probe wireless now you can hear your probe in your head phones and no one else will.

Well those are my ideas - any other ideas or maybe some improvements to mine.

You know the companies do read our posts from time to time so if we come up with a really good idea maybe someday some will make it for us.

Bryanna

It would be worth linking your previous pinpointer thread at this point:
[www.dankowskidetectors.com]
I'm not entirely sure on the merits of a discriminating pinpointer. I built one a couple of years ago, and did try it out in the field, but I found that if there were multiple targets in the hole/spoil, it was best to remove them all anyway, just in case. Mine was still fooled by larger iron objects. Better to have a good all-metal one than a 'fussy' discriminating one. There is a patent filed for a non-motion multi-frequency discrimination technique, that would suit a pinpointer, but it looked a bit complex.
Extra depth would be useful if a wider RANGE of signal strength could be indicated, ie. you could still tell the difference between 10mm and 20mm away from the target, as well as the difference between 80mm and 100mm, as an example. It's not always ideal having it give 'full-on' indication when you're anywhere within 50mm of the target. I'm currently experimenting with this idea on my 'project' Sherlock probe.
If you want to push a small probe in the ground, then you need to get hold of a 'Periscope' pinpointer, which is a very nice toy, sadly no longer made (the manufacturer passed on). I did experiment with making a poor-mans version of one of these, the hard bit is making the probe robust, I didn't pursue it further.
Periscope probe discussion on Geotech1: [www.geotech1.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2012 07:56PM by Pimento.

Pimento, let me know how that mod works out on the Sherlock, if I didn't throw it away, I have one laying around somewhere.

Put all the electronics in the handle of the prope of that periscope and you may have something. Garret electronics may just fit in that handle. Not sure the pickup coil is tuned right though. I think something like that could be useful when hunting deep silver.

Bryanna

There is one for your detector... The Sunray s-
1 . But it adds more weight to your unit. It's nice to hear the dame tones with.the probe through your headphones.

Sounds crazy but I wish we had a way to GB them. The Pistol Probe in air tests, was the deepest seeing probe I've tried. Yet it was useless in the ground here...would sound off on the ground itself. It was like using a Whites TDI pulse machine with the ground balance switch OFF....in some non mineralized soils, it goes scary deep. In other ground it sounds off on the ground continually...thus required you to ground balance. There was no way to GB the Pistol Probe.

I have the same troubles (although not as bad) with the ProPointer. This is especially annoying when I have a target in the hole that is still just out of range for the probe...because it will beep with a slow steady pace EVERYWHERE in the hole so you have no idea which way to go for the target....whether its in the sidewalls or straight down. Basically that was the whole reason for me getting a probe in the first place. I find that in such cases, they are useless to me and I'm just as blind as not having one at all.

From pinpointers I have used the Pricey Sunray that attaches to and works through your unit probably is the most you are going to get out of a pinpointer and if looking for a handheld the Garret pro pinpointer serves the purpose as well as any.
Pinpointer is just a tool for faster recovery so lets not expect too much out of them and can understand your post as double D coils of the Sov. you have take some time to get used to and just don't pinpoint as well as concentric coils.
My only improvement would be to make the Garret you have yellow like one of their units as tough to find if you drop or lose one...

There isn't much I would like added to, say the Garrett Pro-Pointer. But this comes to mind:

1. Give me a sliding sensitivity switch. I know the Garrett will double it's depth by sliding a coin up the shaft to de-sensitize the internal detector and get more power but that is a pain. 1.5" on a coin is fine and 3"-4" to help locate it in "turbo" is great! Also, it's great before you dig to see how deep it might be. If it hits on "turbo", then try it off and that gives you a great idea of things.
2. That LED light is actually quite nice - but make it brighter. Really helps when it's getting dark.
3. Waterproof, don't need that little speaker whole, it's loud enough covered with tape, so just seal it up.

Now, that said, the new pinpointer from Minlelab might just do the above. But, I am not sure if it does audio and vibrate at the same time, which I like.

Albert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2012 09:23PM by earthmansurfer.

They are expensive enough now, without adding unnecessary bell and whistles. As for disc. on a pinpointer, not necessary, all metal should be removed from the hole anyway. MO

Besides working very well, the Pro-Pointer has the advantage of ease of use and durability. One on-off switch and that's it, nothing else to break or fine tune.

I would like to see a simple and solid unit like the Pro-Pointer with more STABLE depth. The coin/metal on the side trick often makes it unstable.

Right now, I carry a Pro-Pointer and a Pistol Probe. The Pistol Probe comes in handy when I want extra depth since it is significantly deeper than the Pro-Pointer. But the Pistol Probe is not as useful for most retrievals and has multiple disadvantages including it's bulkiness and flimsy construction.

Hobo - Agreed on bells and whistles not being needed but a pinpointer is simple. I don't see them going that route (I hope) as they would break easier. Give us adjustable sensitivity and I'm game.

Marcomo - The problem with the Pro-Pointer is the button. They break on quite a few peoples units as they are mechanical in nature. If they could redesign that part and add a sensitivity switch then they have something better. The sensitivity switch wouldn't make it as deep as a Pistol Probe, but it would be close enough to do the trick.

We'll see what Minelab is offering.

On the CTX forum someone mentioned the Minelab pinpointer is delayed due to a lawsuit - no evidence of that but it sure does look like a Garrett.

How 'bout when you push and hold its on...when you let go its off? It would be less pushes and save on batts.

Charlives, mine does that because the switch is broken, and I like it like that.

It's quite simple to dismantle the ProPointer's switch and rebuild it so it doesn't latch, and needs to be held in to operate. Unfortunately, it's not at all simple to dismantle and re-assemble the propointer to get to the switch......

charlives Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How 'bout when you push and hold its on...when you
> let go its off? It would be less pushes and save
> on batts.

I modified mine to work that way.

I don't think a discriminating pin-pointer would be much of an advantage... the purpose is to quickly ID the target in the ground. Although, a high tone for non-ferrous & a low tone for ferrous targets would help in a multiple target situation. doesn't help much for the vibration end of the deal. I love my Sunray probes (have them on all my units).

waterproof
vibrate only mode
sensitivity slide
painted orange so you can find it when you drop it or leave it at a hole
temp push to operate button
strong enough probe to push into a plug
non interference with main detector
spare battery caddy

The switch is attached to the board. To get to the switch, you have to slide the board out of it's slots. The rubber seal (the rubber you push to operate) has to be removed before sliding the board out. The delicate little switch will catch on it and fall apart if you don't. The switch is small, about 1/4" cubed, if I'm remembering. You may need a magnifying glass and a pair of tweezers. All in all, I don't recomend taking it apart unless you have skills.

The KISS principle needs to apply to any probe. Keep the weight down. Make it durable on the probe end, good battery life, waterprooof, external light, be able to sense on dime sized target to 4 inches, not look like a pistol, and not cost a fortune. Oh wait, we already have one that almost meets all the criteria above-Garrett pro pointer. It's hard to beat really. And to even think that White's would put their name on that junk they sell. A company that wants everyone to think they are the leaders in metal detector technology, what ashamed.

No arguments I do like my Propointer a lot. Just because something is good does not mean it can not be better. I am betting the new minelab pinpointer was just that a refinement on the Propointer and so darn close I bet Garret sued. They are in the cat bird seat right now because I know of no other pinpointer I would buy with the exception of the Sunray hand held probes but even with one of those I would still want my Propointer. So if the minelab addresses the minor issues and I do mean minor issues of the Propointer I think if priced close it will steal market share.

Like you I am surprised White's has not come up with something worthy of their name. Maybe they will?

Bryanna

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The KISS principle needs to apply to any probe.
> Keep the weight down. Make it durable on the
> probe end, good battery life, waterprooof,
> external light, be able to sense on dime sized
> target to 4 inches, not look like a pistol, and
> not cost a fortune. Oh wait, we already have one
> that almost meets all the criteria above-Garrett
> pro pointer. It's hard to beat really. And to
> even think that White's would put their name on
> that junk they sell. A company that wants
> everyone to think they are the leaders in metal
> detector technology, what ashamed.

I would love the ProPointer if they put the LED light on it's own switch. It would be nice to have the light to look at a coin or such on a night hunt without the pinpointer going off.

I like most of the other ideas presented here as well.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And to even think that White's would put their name on
> that junk they sell. A company that wants
> everyone to think they are the leaders in metal
> detector technology, what ashamed.

I wouldn't say junk, I have an old style Bullseye and it works great and absolutely no problems seven years and running strong!

A replaceable 'Wellington Boot' cover for the tip wouldn't be a bad idea, seeing as people use them as digging tools. Supply a couple of spare ones.
The idea of a 'slider' or moveable adjuster for sensitivity is a really bad one. Many of the cheap probes have a threshold/sensitivity adjustment knob on them (my Sherlock one does). It is one of the weak points of the probe - it can be knocked and damaged, it's a dirt-entry point, it could clog with mud etc. Ideally there should be no sensitivity control, the pointer should be able to cope with a good range of targets and distances as standard. But if you must have a 'boost' mode, do it with buttons, eg. have a second button to press.

My opinion is that the Pro Pointer is great & needs little to no improvement. I can agree making it yellow, but don't see a need for anything else. The target I.D., etc., is to be done with your " real " detector, && your mind. Final recovery of the find is done with the PP, & it does a great job, as is.

Quote:"Final recovery of the find is done with the PP, & it does a great job, as is"
This is where the needs of coin-shooters, relic hunters, nugget-hunters etc complicate things. Tha Propointer makes a decent job of detecting easy targets like milled coins. But when the targets get small/low-conductivity, such as nuggets / micro-jewellery / small ancient coins / nuisance targets like shotgun&airgun pellets, the Garrett is less helpful. High frequency pointers are better here, and they can still perform OK on larger targets. Maybe there is a market for two pointers?

it's a old idea.... but i will show you my way for more depth... simple work and if needed i use this little boost....

[www.youtube.com]

regards

That's a great idea!
I did a similar thing by taping a piece of plastic cable tie to the shaft with a pull tab laced on it which sldes up and down but your soltion is a helluva lot more refined. I got tired of leaving the "sensitivity enhancor " behind.

I like my Uniprobe for most use but when I want to use different headphones then I have to go to a handheld. And the expensive hand helds, outside the Pistol Probe, don't have any better performance than a $20 Little Wizard II I bought in 2004.

My wish list....I want a electronic hand held pinpointer that can tell ferrous from non-ferrous with Uniprobe depth.

HH
Mike

Interesting post with some good ideas and lets hope the manufacturers are listening.

After using many models over the years just feel the Garrett pro serves me well and wrapped some pink tape around it in case I drop it and carry a nickle to super tune.
Wedding ring on my left and although a bit clumsy for a right hander also works rel tuning and lot of homemade gizmos do the same.
Indeed the S..Ray that attaches to your unit is probably the best I ever used but is a tad clumsy, makes your unit a bit heavier and some say affects the operation of the unit you are using to a degree...

The Minelab Pro-Find has four tiny speaker holes - guaranteed to clog with mud and dirt. In the field the clog limits the volume to the point of nearly making it useless. That is a major drawback.