Getting Permission thread...Do's and Don'ts

We hit a rabbit trail with this in Kevin's thread about offering $ to hunt places. I thought it would be a good idea to start another thread on getting permission...the do's and don'ts of doing it and such. Every forum we visit, we seem to get hung up on the metal detectors themselves....which is deeper, which is better in trash, how to set them up, etc. Often over looked, is the most important of all...getting permission to hunt sites in the first place. Without new sites, you are going to be stuck visiting public areas or going back to the same old places you have been a thousand times...hunting it with the latest and greatest machine and hoping it magically refills the site for you. To each their own....but I would rather have new sites to hunt on a regular basis. So I've noticed that some folks really struggle with getting permission for places to hunt. The blame gets put on the landowners being more hostile or whatever else these days, but I just about bet it's all in HOW the person is presenting themselves when asking permission.

Someone else said in the other thread a big truth to take notice of: the permission seeking process is a lot like being a sales man/woman. Some people could talk an Eskimo into buying a snow cone, and some couldn't sell a bottle of water to a man dying of thirst. I would go further to say that some couldn't even GIVE a bottle of water away to a man dying of thirst without making the dying man feel uneasy like there might be something wrong with the water lol Your body language and your ability to communicate with strangers is going to go a long way in this. Here is the good part...some people are just naturals at this kind of stuff...but others CAN LEARN. There are tactics that are taught to people in sales that will help you in getting permission as well. There is a lot of psychology involved in this. Did you know that sales people are taught that when a customer comes in the store and asks for a particular item...we will use a gold ring for example....if a customer comes in the store and wants to see a ring in the display show case...the sales person is more likely to make the sale of said ring by taking it out of the display and placing it in the hand of the potential customer...instead of just setting the box on top and letting the person do it themselves. It's all psychology. Take note of waiters and waitresses that get the most tips...how do they do it? They have very outgoing personalities in the short time they are waiting on you. So it's all a tactic.

Let it be noted that there is NOT one set way of asking permission. Some of it cannot be written down and get you to understand it....some cases you just have to experience and play by ear on what to say and when to say it. There IS a right time to ask to metal detect in the conversation. I noted in the other thread that I learned a lot by going out on visitation with the church I went to....JUST having the experience and opportunity to go knock on a lot of doors will help a lot. If you are a member of a church, I suggest getting with your visitation group...if you don't have one, get with your preacher and suggest starting one up. We're suppose to go out into the highways and hedges and compell them to come in...so that would be good for you and the community. The church I go to is a Baptist church...and not surprisingly, with the portion of the south I live in being called "the Bible belt"....there are a HUNDREDS of churches of all denominations in the single COUNTY I live in...and thousands in the state of Tennessee. Yet despite that...surprisingly, there are VERY FEW that go out on visitation. This area is known for the Jehovah's Witnesses going out door to door...and NOT the regular churches of the area. So in a way it is a lot like metal detecting....most people have encountered the JW's coming to their door with their religious literature and will NOT come to the door if they suspect that you may be one of them. I say that because most of the known places here in the south, have had LOTS of relic hunters over the years come to the door of the landowner...and there are always bad apples that would not fill holes, left trash, tore down gates and such...and ultimately just put a bad taste in the owner's mouth for relic hunters in general. So on visitation for the church, we had to quickly point out that we WEREN'T the JWs and were different...just the same as you have to do in getting permission...you've got to sell yourself as DIFFERENT than the bad apples of the hobby.

So here are some DON'Ts:

If you've seen the "reality" metal detecting show on Spike TV....you have a good place to start on DON'Ts. The main loud mouth guy of the group is the one who always knocks on the doors. Most of that show is fake..but I do believe them showing him getting turned down so much is NOT fake...due to how he asks. He gets told NO about 4 out of 5 houses he goes to on every episode I've seen.

1. Don't come knocking on doors when it's potentially bad times to knock. This will be difficult to gauge since people work oddball hours these days...but if you show up at somebody's house about 6 or 7 in the evening...assuming the person works day shift...they are probably having supper. Don't show up at their door step at 6 in the morning either and wake them up. What I try to do is get a list of places that I want to get permission for...and set aside a day that I'm NOT planning on hunting, and just go ask permission. It's best to NOT wait until the day you want to dig, to try and find places. Back in the spring I did just that...made a list and had 6 places on it and had done my research on where the landowners lived. I started about 10 in the morning and by lunch I had permission for 7 new places lol

2. Don't ask over the phone. Face to face is a must IF POSSIBLE. I'm sure it's the same with others...but there ain't much that aggitates me more than telemarketers. If I don't recognize the area code OR number on the caller ID...I wont answer it anyway.

3. Don't crowd the door of the landowner's house. Knock on their door or ring the door bell....and take a few steps back away from the door. These people aren't going to know who you are...and with all the home invasions these days, if you are too close to the door they aren't going to like it. Give them some breathing room when talking to them and don't crowd their space. In this case...if you have 3 or more people with you...only one of you go to the door and the rest sit in the truck.

4. Don't go dressed like a person that just crawled out of a mud hole or just broke loose from the gangsta's in town. How you dress is VERY important. You only get one chance to make a first impression on somebody. If you show up with pants sagging below your butt, wearing a profanity laced shirt, or one witha pot leaf on it....that says a lot about you to someone that don't know you. I own 30 acres and I will tell you this...if somebody came to my door wearing a shirt with a pot leaf on it, I don't care if they are the nicest person in the community, I ain't gonna let them do jack squat on my place, and as a matter of fact, I would probably look out the window and observe what they were wearing and open the door while holding my 20 gauge asking what they wanted. I'm not saying to show up in a suit and tie...I normally just go casual dressed for myself. I will wear a polo style collared shirt with non dirty blue jeans on most all my permission seeking excursions. Most of the landowners here are people that are 40+ years of age...and DO NOT favor the young people's way of dressing these days. I'm young myself and don't favor it lol Just like in a job interview....how you are dressed often makes a big difference.

5. I have a handgun carry permit that allows me to carry my firearm anywhere in the state of TN unless otherwise posted. I have it with me everywhere I travel. But for getting permission...this might be an obvious one...don't forget you have it on your hip and go to the door of a stranger to get permission. LOL The same would apply to knives and such too that you might wear on your belt. At most, have a cell phone on your belt. In one case, I already had permission for a particular farm I hunt and just stopped by to let him know I was gonna be back there metal detecting. He was out by his barn working on a tractor with his farm help...and I came up and started talking. I kept noticing they were looking down at my side when I was catching up with them...and happened to look down and saw my Glock .40 cal sitting on my hip. Whoops. His particular farm is overran with coyotes and I told him the last time I was back in there I saw a few...which I did...and thus eased him a bit. His reply to that was "kill every one you see".

6. Don't stand at their door with your hands in your pockets. Some people can't keep their hands still when they talk...and on some people it is even worse when they are nervous..and people tend to put hands in their pockets. Don't do that. Keep your hands out where they can see you have nothing harmful in them. What I do here is a trick I have learned to do. At every chance I get, I will go buy a bunch of the smaller sized Ricker display cases. In them, I will put common things I find when relic hunting. I go to the relic shows and often buy the cheaper relics I can find...buttons with pushed faces, j hooks, etc...just common civil war items. I will put a few cases together...and when I go to get permission for a new place...I will grab one of the cases and go to the door. Having this in my hand draws the attention of the person at the door. They will try to see what's in the case without asking for it. Then when the time is right...I will tell them what it is I'm wanting to do...and use the relics in the case as examples of what it is I'm looking to find. You would be VERY surprised at how well this works.

7. Don't get huffy with them if they deny you permission. Some times no matter how good you are at asking, you will get told no. We have this one particular site we've been trying to get permission for, for years. Still to no avail. Get 'em with kindness. I will tell a story here on this very thing..then I'm gonna have to go.

I had stopped at this one house to try and get permission for a Civil War camp that I suspected was on it. A lady came to the door and I introduced myself and asked her if she was doing alright, etc...just talking to her. She said her husband was gone to town for a minute but would be back any time. I told her what I was there for and showed her some relics in a case I had, and said that I would like to try to find some of those things on their place if they would let me. She told me no...said that in the past they have had runins with others when they let them hunt...and that they had left their trash on the ground and such and that they had put an end to it. She said they use to let people but haven't since the 1980s. She said they let one guy hunt it...he was the only one that got permission...and then one day they came home and there was that guy and like 8 other people in their field digging. He had invited all his buddies from his relic club. So they stopped it right there and haven't let anybody hunt since and that she believed all relic hunters were the same way. Well I saw my journey had came to an end, and thanked her for her time. Then my church part of me got the best of me...and I said to her "while I have you out on the porch, as a baptist preacher I gotta ask you...do you know the Lord and do you go to church anywhere?".

I was just doing my job as a soldier for Christ at that point....the metal detecting thing had already came to an end. It was then something happened with her....turns out she was a big time church lady. She started telling me about the church her husband and her attended, how the services were so good, etc. Then she started telling me her life story...she was the daughter of a preacher, got saved when she was very young, Sunday school teacher for years, etc. Well we just started having a good ole time talking about what God had done in our lives. As it turned out, she had just had surgery and couldn't drive anywhere just yet. Her former pastor was also an author and had just released a new book. She began telling me about him and got me interested in the book, so I asked her the name of it and where I might find it at. She told me the name of it....where I could get it...and said that she has been homebound from the surgery and couldn't get to town to get it for herself. After a few more minutes of talking, I told her goodbye and how nice it was to get to talk to her. I left and was on my way home when I looked over and saw the book store she had mentioned. I pulled in to get a copy of the book for myself...then decided I would be nice and get TWO copies....drove right back to her house and rang the door bell. I held the book up when she opened her main door and I asked "is this the one you were talking about?" and she said yes...I handed her a copy and told her that was to give her some reading material for while she was stuck at home. Relic hunting was far from my mind at that point. She about started crying and she pointed down at the barn...got on her phone and called somebody. Turns out she called her husband and he came up to the house. She remembered my name and everything...she told him who I was, and the story of me coming to their door...and that SHE SAID I could relic hunt and was just letting him know. lol I looked at him and he looked at me and all he said was "well you heard the boss..." and I shook his hand. We talked a bit more and I told them I would always let them know when I would be there and let them know when I was leaving and show them what I found, if anything.

Folks...that has been about 10 years ago and they are the closest landowner friends that I have. They send Christmas cards every year. He's always getting me other places to hunt too. I gave him a big display case one year for Christmas and it had a bunch of the relics I had found off their property and to this day, I'm the only one with permission to hunt it since the mid 1980s. They've got to know my hunting buddy Jeff over the years and we know that if we are gonna go there...we gotta get there about an hour earlier than what we planned to hunt because they are talkers. LOL They love to talk. She is the kind of lady that insists she feed you if you stop by...just good ole southern people.

Feel free to chime in and add your tips/experiences in here. I've been EXTREMELY long winded but hopefully by the time this thread gets finished, it will benefit us all.

One thing that I have tried when someone turns me down is to be very polite and tell them if they ever need something like keys or jewelry found, to give me a call. I will do it for nothing just because I like to find stuff.
Before long they will call for some reason and then I get to hunt all I wont to as a reward. Some times they just change their mind and let me anyway.

I always give them a card with my name and number on it.

Tom in SC

Don't mention money or jewelry or treasure, digging holes etc. and for gosh sakes do it in the Spring or Fall.. I might find an old coin or relic is a good start..

Timing is important don't knock at supper time and make sure both husband and wife are at home.

Some have cards made up mentioning the hobby with your name address and telephone #.

Don't mention anything about insurance, liability and the like.

I know one fellow that has a double hobby and always asks if he can takes pictures of the nice old house as its an in to start a conversation.

Even if you always hunt with a buddy better chance of one fellow getting permission so leave your buddy at home.

Some guys carry an entry level unit and invite the homeowner to detect with you.

If given permission be neat and you may be invited back and if the neighbor starts a conversation might have a second yard to detect so be polite.

My opinion:If you see a home you want to hunt then be ready to hunt at that time, after getting permission. That is, ask for permission in the morning and start hunting immediately, before the owners start rethinking their decision. Their initial generosity can fade if you come back later they may have changed their mind - especially if the husband disagrees with the wife. In all cases, be plain and simple - no B.S., no long dissertations on how detectors work or how professional you are. You waste the homeowners time (measured in seconds) you are done. Don't bring anything to the door except a pleasant demeanor (leave the detecting stuff in the car).

Tell them your hobby is looking for relics and you like finding older buried objects for their historical significance. Then ask if they would be OK with you detecting their yard. Don't bring up re-filling holes, the value of targets, or any negative aspect that makes them rethink you hunting the property. If they ask questions - answer directly and look them in the eye when you do. Keep it short but allay their fears (that's what a good sales person does to remove obstacles). Don't ramble. Don't look at your shoes when talking. Don't cross your arms or lean on their porch. Just stand straight and look at the owner. Keep you distance if it is a woman - and smile nicely but don't stare her down or make her feel uncomfortable. If its a man shake their hand firmly and use your big-boy voice, you can stand closer; look him in the eye. If they say "no" thank them for their time, turn, and walk away. No back talk or counter arguments.

Don't talk about "treasure", "value", "targets", or "rare" objects. To do so is to infer that you are taking valuable items away from them. When you start, don't fumble with detector settings - have it ready to go - turn it on and get busy. If you don't act professional and in control the homeowners will see a clumsy amateur fumbling around on their property - you are inviting the worried homeowner to ask you to leave. Thus, if you don't know your detector or how to operate it - stay on parks and tot-lots until you do. Use headphones - no noise.

Don't offer to show them any findings. Don't offer to split anything you find. Don't talk about removing "trash" or removing anything. Don't offer to sign any contracts. Don't offer anything. Just ask permission nicely and politely to hunt their yard and if given permission then get your detector from the car and get busy. When done - just leave - don't knock again on the door again. Don't bother the homeowner. Don't bore them with long explanations why you want to hunt or your past history of detecting or past finds. Make it quick, plain, and non-threatening.

Also, when they check their yard later (after you've left) they should be unable to detect you were ever there.

A lot of good advice so far.

I would suggest, whenever possible, try to catch the property owner when they are most open to being approached. I've had significantly better luck approaching people when they are already outside.

Of course you can cold call on someone's door and get permission, but you've got to be a better much salesman because there is much more of a "defense" to go through then when the person is already outside in the world.

Think about when someone you don't know knocks on your door. What is your first thought? Is this person going to try and sell me something? Are they going to try and scam me?

Dan referred to one other thing that is very important. I heard a few days ago that over 60% of the US is in some kind of drought condition. It's a big mistake to detect anything resembling a yard in extremely dry conditions unless you are just going to coin pop shallower targets. Plugs, even flap plugs, will kill the grass and leave big bare spots shortly thereafter. Not likely to leave the permission grantor feeling warm and fuzzy...

About shaking hands. I would say NOT to extend your hand first. Introduce yourself then, if the male of the household puts his hand out, you shake, with a smile....If you're expected, that's different.
If a woman puts out her hand, she's either packing or she's a black belt. lol

appearance and good dress and not acting harshly .
if you are heavyweight ,bald and look like a member from ZZ Top with tatts i dont reckon your chances so send a fair looking lady instead .

Guys and girls. We have ALL seen (those of us who have stomached our way through the show although not any more) how Rick BOOM BABY Whatshisname asks for permission. He goes up and tell the land owner what his intention are. He then starts negotiating. What are y'all's view on this technique. This is the technique that Spike TV and Discovery Channel watchers are going to expect, are they not???? You thoughts???
Now, aside form my faux pas the other day, my normal way of asking is thus: I was at my Vet getting my dog worked on and I knew the Vet had bought the old home next door to the clinic. This was a year ago. I asked him if I could go up there and metal detect for coins or anything. I told him that it's a new hobby for me, but that I will go the mile to make sure that I leave his property as I found it. He said: "Go right ahead. All ya want." It was there that I found my first Eagle I button. I found several more Union buttons abd bullets, a Rosette, and many other goodies. I told them about 'em but he didn't act one bit interested although he was nice.

For anyone who doesnt have alot of experience knocking on doors, go back and reread Johnnyanglos post another time or 2 .... He pretty much knocked it square out of the ballpark! Nice and simple.. Others have had good feedback too. Some of what is mentioned would depend on location .... IE, Id never dream of bringing up religion in my neck of the woods, but travel 30 Mi South to the bible belt and it would be a "safer" risk. I always take a few minutes to smile and chat with neighbors, networking is one of the keys for continued success...

Ive easily knocked on 1500 doors (if not 2000-2500) in my time and unless you run across a chatty cathy be brief and to the point, and most of all if you get permission, HUNT IT RIGHT THEN! I have had permission rescinded dozens of times, for numerous reasons.....but usually the woman of the house dont like it(the one who really wears the pants).
Here are a few more "donts" learned from the school of hard knocks.

1. never use the term "hunt" ....instead say Id like to scan/search/detect your yard.... alot of people are leery of others and the term "hunt" will sometimes draw instant intimidation leading straight to a NO....
2. never say "dig". If they ASK tell them you retrieve your targets very carefully, and you can see no trace when your finished.
3. never wear anything with a logo .... U may think "xyz" company is great, but they may know someone whom they think got screwed by them.
4. Dont wear red, yellow or orange as a main color... Scientific studies have shown that simple blues and greens are perceived as "safe" colors....use them to your advantage. Simple CLEAN/INTACT blue jeans will suffice. as well as clean shirts ....I do prefer simple yet cheap polos or button up shirts with collar, but clean t-shirts with non-stretched necks will work.
5. this has been covered already, but it needs to be restated. DONT crowd the landowner... give them plenty of room to open the door. I give a minimum of 6 ft, and if the porch isnt too wide and the door aligns with the steps, Ill back down to the top step to give a perception im less of a threat ie. "reducing myself"

Its also nice to have a hunting buddy with a gift of gab, kind of a tag team effect. we would ride from one nice yard to the next honing our speaking skills giving each other feedback, and we literally had a smooth/seamless come-back for EVERYTHING..... including the 2 fellas who opened the door wielding shotguns(2 different places), asking what the F*&^ we want (yes we talked our way into hunting one of them lol) But the elderly fella who chased my buddy out of a barn with a machete ....well, that was a lost cause...

Here are a few more tips....take them with a grain!

When the landowner opens the door and its a woman, ill tip my head slightly down-(give them dominance)- and speak softly and slowly-"hello, how are today" ? the question engages them and requires a response....this response will give you your first "read" to see which direction you need to go from there.
If its a guy, Ill stand straight, speak normal and clear. "good morning/afternoon young man, how are you" ?(again the question engages them)
If the man is of smaller stature, Ill position myself to give him the dominance as well. If its a big jovial fellow Ill remain straight and squared up, and will approach with outstretched hand for firm handshake, and quick smile.
After the first few seconds of brief chat I break out - " I have an unusual hobby, I do metal detection....Have you heard of that before?" (second question to engage them, and gets to the point of why your there)... this is THE most important "read"! Their facial expressions coupled with body language will speak volumes, so you better listen.... I then quickly pay their house and/or yard a compliment and let them know Id like to scan around for a few old relics, and maybe even a wheat penny or 2. Some will come right off with immediate permission, but others wont... If at first they say, um no I dont think so, or I dunno ....then you need to quickly change the subject ....ask them about the age of their house, compliment their gorgeous yard, then ask them about THEIR hobbies ...whatever you do just keep chatting, asking them questions.. keep them "engaged".....Listen to them. Make them comfy with you (this is definitely where having a partner helps) At some point insert something like " I bet theres an old item or something here that would go nicely with this house, if you gave us permission to search we promise to be real careful and would more than happy to return any artifact or personal belongings that could belong to a long past family friend or relative".. If landowner is still apprehensive, then KEEP CHATTING... Ive eventually had landowners throw up their arms in surrender and say "yea yea ok, just get it done with already" ....It aint pretty but its highly effective! IF I drive a landowner to that point, I make DAMN SURE I treat their yard right, and ALWAYS knock on the door when Im done to show my finds (even if they dont ask to see them) Ill tell them how cool it was to recover these items, make sure they know Im extremely thankful for them allowing me to recover the items before they rot away in the ground, basically reaffirming with them that their permission was a "good thing". Ill offer them some cool stuff... Ive given barber dimes, merc dimes, IH pennies, Skeleton keys, and really cool old relics, and etc.. for the verbal suffering I put them through They normally warm up and offer me a return visit whenever I wish ...Its a win win.
If they continue to say "no",then try to leave it at ..."well, ok, Perhaps another time?" If they say "well, perhaps and/or maybe"....then go back next month or two, knock, put a huge smile on your face, outstretch your arms and say "hey you remember me" (usually they do lol) They are usually taken back by seeing you again, and are sometimes in a better mood(remember people are people, alot of things could have happened in their life right before you knocked the first time)

Weve seen alot, and you should be prepared to be asked what you do with your finds...if they can see your finds ....if youll split your finds with them. If they bring up coins, I say "oh yeah, I collect wheat pennies ....youve seen them; havent you?" If they keep bringing up coins, Ill say yea sometimes I get real lucky and find an IH penny, would you like to have it if I find one? ( if they keep asking questions it could be theyre unsure of you detecting there, keep answering and re asking them questions to reaffirm, and keep a "read" on them...but try to get away a get hunting asap)
Be prepared to have them follow you...they sometimes do that, or if they have kids expect the kids to come out and follow you around. I try to dig some tin, brass, or tabs when a landowner is over my shoulder, and wait to dig the coins til after he/she gets bored and leaves .. it works very well...however,2 yrs ago I tried that trick and ended up digging a "solid gold" band right in front of a guy ...Needless to say he held his hand right out for it...never got a pic of it or a thank you, and never got him off my back either
Another time I had landowner on my six, and I thought I was digging an aluminum screw cap... after seeing how I dug the first few targets the landowner decided to jump right down in front of me and finish digging the next target once I removed the plug, (jerk) pulled a handful of dirt from the hole waved his hand over my coil and in his hand contained my first seated dime.(did I mention he was a jerk?)
Yet another time I had pulled a plug and was digging out the dirt and a barber dime slid down the back side of the pile ....I didnt see it, but the 10 yr old boy standing there did and he promptly snatched it up, and ran to the house hollering to his parents "hey look what this guy just found" From that time on whenever a kid followed me Ive made sure to politely tell them to not grab what I pull from the hole because it could be dangerous, and so far its worked..
Ive been hit on by women a few times, one was VERY BLUNT with her expectations of me....I produced some good gab, hunted the yard, endured one of her kids jumping on my detector, made my finds and left.... and never broke my vows! I even had dude hit on me once.... with his boyfriend a little ways away chatting with my hunting buddy... I told him what he wanted hear, hunted his yard, took my finds, ran to the car and never went back !!!! These stories could go on and on... Permission is my forte...
The bottom line is... Our permission rate is over 85% for yards and over 90% for farm fields....It aint perfect. Yea were kinda like dogs, but in the end we treat the landowners right AND get what we want! This hobby truly IS just like real estate ...location location location.... all the $1500-$2500 beepers in the world aint gunna find ya much of S*^$ if your treading over the same old grounds that have been beaten for decades.. our philosophy is "if were not out getting it, someone else is"

philosophy #2 ....Never take the first "no" as the final answer. philosophy #3... Never take the second "no" as the final answer (remember, if you aint hunting that property someone like me is gunna) you have to be a bit passive, yet aggressive

Knock knock knock- practice practice practice ....the gab will come, and so will more and better finds

My one word of advice, I just ask people when I see them about in their yards working, their place has to be big, I don't like small yards, my advice, we have millions of homes , yards, fields, farms, in America, if they say no, just move on to the next one, be polite, but I think most of us are anyway, this is a very good thread and should help all

silversurfer, excellent post with many effective psychological insights! 85-90% success coldcalling on doors is phenomenal! You are in a league by yourself...

The only thing I would question is the logic of going back to homes that told you no once for a second time. Wouldn't the chance of "yes" be higher by approaching someone for the first time at a property rather than one that has already said no?

Marcomo, the return after a "no" would be hard to do, I agree. The old 'squeeky wheel' saying comes to mind though.

Looks like Silversurfer has got the game down to a science. I'd add one intangible thing that will be hard to overcome: some people just have some magic charm that disarms people and gets them access where others can't. We've all met those people who we are not offended by and that other person who does or says the same dang thing but you just find him irksome and you just want to smack him for no reason. It could be a small difference in physical demeanor or voice quality and tenor. It could be confidence levels or just a symmetrical facial feature and pleasant look that gets more success - hard to quantize it. There seems to be a bias against folks who are out of place - example: The southern drawl doesn't fit well in New York and a Jersey accent in Texas might get you a big "no", or worse.

In the same way, you might be at a big disadvantage if you're "big" or as they say in the colloquial language of the street you're a "fat-so". What if in our make-believe example the landowner is skinny. What will you do? That rail-thin man at the door just may be thinking "this guy is looking for coins so he can get enough change together to buy himself another cheeseburger". They may not be as concerned about the holes you put in the ground with your digger as the holes you make with you feet. If a porch-sitting homeowner should remark at the vibrations in their lemonade as you approach by, "I know what them are - they're impact tremors", you are going to need some help. You need to overcome the fat stereotype and create a new one. One trick that works with all kids and most adults is to remember that physiologically people equate you subconsciously with jolly 'ol Saint Nick. So don't be offended by their crass de-personalization of your immense uniqueness. We just need to learn the secret of turning morbid obesity into dollars. Here's the trick: as you are speaking to the reluctant homeowners keep chuckling to yourself and in a jolly sort of way. Repeat "ho, ho, ho" and laugh heartedly at everything. If you can hold your belly and wink while doing this the effect is heightened, especially if you possess a white beard and a red suit. This is most effective in the winter months.

Then again, if both you and the landowner are similar in speech and looks - you won't need this and are likely to be more palatable and your troubles should be few. But wait, there are other obstacles you need to overcome. Perhaps you have decided to hunt in a gang neighborhood. Now what do you do? Easy! Just mutter under your breath but within earshot some disparaging remark about the rival gang up the street or the local cops. This is the quickest way to get you on their good side. Careful you're not confused as to which gang controls which city block - it is less effective when you openly insult the gang leaders' own gang.

Yet, sometimes being different can be charming if you play it off properly - perhaps play into a more positive stereotype. That is, if you look like a slow-witted slack-jawed moron at the door, stuttering and stammering, you can turn that negative into a positive. Pretend to be mentally disabled and go for sympathy points, or if you're not pretending do it all the more. Here's how it works. Let's say you see that it isn't going well and the homeowners aren't receiving you warmly. Try saying something like this: "My ma said if I was a good boy and concentrate real hard I could learn to make my detector work - and I did, wanna see?" This is called in the scientific literature as "psycho talk" and helps to develop a leader-loser relationship with the owner that can give you the edge you need. Who can say no to an excited half-wit with a detector! You'll be detecting their property in no time flat - guaranteed.

You're thinking, "OK, I can do that ...but what if I'm a Lilly-white and asking permission at a house in a predominately Black or Hispanic neighborhood". Yes, normally that would be an obstacle - but not if you've learned one little secret that works like a charm. You'll need to plan ahead and invest in just two inexpensive things and have it ever at the ready for just such a circumstance. Here's the secret to getting permission in the wrong neighborhood: when you go to the door wear an Africa Rasta, Black Fist tee shirt or something with a picture of Malcolm-X on it. I know, you're thinking "I don't know squat about Rastafarianism and what if I get the wrong tee and it has a picture of Malcolm McDowell from A Clockwork Orange fame on it? If this is your problem then you're probably too dim and culturally dull to succeed at this. But if you are a bit more careful in your selection this is the trick that puts you in the drivers seat. Remember at the door to keep quiet and let the shirt do the talking. Great idea you say, but what if it's a predominately Hispanic neighborhood? That's why you keep a Che Guevara tee shirt in the trunk of your car. See how easy that was? Once you know the secrets of how to blend in you will get instant acceptance wherever you go. There will be no neighborhood safe from your detector.

Now, go put these tips to work and start raking in the cash.

Johnnyanglo, Had a little chuckle from your post. Not sure if your serious. Some of those last tips can get you hurt or killed where I'm from.

??????

There have been several great tips from you guys. I've not had the time to sit down and finish what I started on my DO's but will get to it eventually.

For now I will say this: the area of TN that I live in is well known for its racial discrimination, but it's not what you're probably thinking. Back in the 1950s and 1960s it was mostly the white folks discriminating against the blacks. Now it tends to be the reverse of that with the newer generation. Every night on the news out of Chattanooga, you hear of gang violence where somebody's been shot. There are areas you don't want to be caught in after dark if you are white.

All of that to say this: there is an older town not far from me named Charleston, TN. This town is one of the older towns locally. It saw extensive action during the Civil War...but it is modernly developed now. There are very few fields and woods...most of it is houses and small yards in sort of a terrace situation on a hill. There are plenty of relics in Charleston to find...the way to them is asking permission to hunt the yards of houses. The main rail road goes through the middle of town...and sort of divides the town with the new half and the older half...one side is occupied mostly by older black folks and the newer part is occupied by mostly white folks. Now here's my situation. I'm country as cornbread. If you've watched my videos you have heard how I talk...there's that unmistakable southeast TN hillbilly accent. There's no disguising it...it's just there. And it was a bit intimidating to me to make myself go to the older part of Charleston to start trying to ask permission to look for Civil War relics in the yards of folks that might get offended by the mere mention of the Civil War.

One day I was out driving around that part of town and saw where a vacant lot beside a singlewide trailer had just been cleared. There were two older black gentlemen standing in the driveway talking and I pulled in. As someone else noted earlier...it seems to be a LOT easier to get permission from people when you catch them already outside.

I made my way to them and asked if they owned the cleared lot...one of them did and I told them my name and what I was wanting to look for. "Why go right ahead...hey have you ever looked up on the hill over there? When we was kids we use to play up on the hill and one of our friends found a cannonball up there just playing around". Which he had my attention there...because that hill he pointed at was a small fort during the war, overlooking the railroad bridge. Long story short here...I began detecting the lot and started finding drop bullets and buttons, and melted lead. Sure sign of a small camp during the war. A small evening thunderstorm popped up and I made a run to the truck where the two fellas were still standing and talking, under some trees. I showed them what I had found thus far and gave them each a bullet and next thing I knew, another car pulled in and a man gets out. Starts talking to the other two fellas and the landowner shows the new guy the bullet I gave him. Next thing I know, I have permission for more yards to hunt....those people are older and nice as can be. NEVER have I been turned down to relic hunt a yard there. The white side of town though...different story. Remember I said I had been turned down about 3 times in the past? Two of those have came from the white side of Charleston.

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Someone said earlier to NOT show your finds to the land owner. I've actually had a lot of good come out of showing finds to the landowners and letting them pick what they want out of it. The way I see it...the stuff belongs to them anyway, and without their permission, I wouldn't have found it. Actually, in several cases where I've became friends with the landowners, I will get a display case together of things I've found on their property and give it to them for Christmas and such. This has always been my way of thanking them for letting me come and go on their property...and in nearly ever case, has opened up more properties for me to hunt that had previously been off limits to others. Some times I find things on the new properties...sometimes I don't...but I never would have had access if I hadn't of shared my finds with them. MOST of the time I offer stuff back to them, they don't want any of it, or at most, just pick out a good condition dropped bullet.

Here is a DO that you might consider as well. If the landowners are elderly...you might try offering to do a little work to help them out in exchange for being able to hunt. My hunting buddy Jeff and I ran up on a situation like this quite by accident. We were wanting to try and hunt some yards down on Missionary Ridge in Chattanooga. Missionary Ridge is mostly all houses and yards...NICE houses and yards. During the Civil War, it was a big battle for Chattanooga. We didn't know the area well so we went down one morning during the week and just started trying to find people that were at home..and asking if we could detect. Jeff is a car salesman by work, and has that way of talking with people and getting in on places.

Well we stopped at this one house and an older lady came to the door. I was sitting in the truck with the window down listening to Jeff talk to her. As Jeff was explaining what we do, a light bulb went off in her head and she said to him "My husband is passed on and my kids are all grown up and moved out...I can't get around like I use to anymore. I will let you boys detect if you will help me around the house a bit...I have some furnature I want out of my basement...if you will move that out, you can hunt all you want". So no problem...we go to her basement and she shows us what she wants moved. All of it down there was basically BRAND NEW furnature...love seat, couch, matching recliners....ALL of it covered in plastic and had never been sat on with just the cloth. She said "boys if you want any of this stuff, you are more than welcome to have it...I just want it out of my basement. If you don't want it, just bring it down to the road and somebody will get it". It was actually quite a bit of figuring to get that stuff out of the basement and thru the doors and such...we got it all out of there and it was some work. I wanted ALL the furnature but we didn't have a trailer to haul it back home on...I made plans to come back later that day with one to get it. By the time we finished hunting her yard, every bit of it was gone. LOL She wasn't kidding...it went quick. The first signal I dug in her yard was a trolly token fron 1923 that had a baseball schedule for the Chattanooga Lookouts baseball team on it. Then I got a seated half dime. We got a few drop bullets and fired ones, and a couple button backs. We thanked her...she thanked us. The next week we went back to try for more spots...and stopped by her house again. She had more work for us to do....had some kudzu growing up the side of her house that she wanted off, and we cleaned her gutters out too. She gave us drinks and sandwiches and just seemed to like having somebody to talk to. When we finished, we hunted her side yard and got a few more things...then she came outside and told us her neighbor had just called her, inquiring about what Jeff and I were doing out there. After she told her neighbor what we were doing, and that she had put us to work for exchange of letting us detect, her neighbor told her that she had a few things she needed moved, and would let us hunt her yard if we moved the stuff for her. So there for a while Jeff and I were the "will work for land to metal detect on" crew on Missionary Ridge. We actually got to hunt quite a few yards there as word spread among the neighbors.

Great stories Daniel. Enjoyed them.

Good stories Daniel. I'm a roofer,and have done repairs in exchange for detecting .

You write as well as you get permission, Daniel. Excellent stuff!

Heck, if you hit my door before I detected I would have probably let you detect the yard.

marcomo Wrote:
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> silversurfer, excellent post with many effective
> psychological insights! 85-90% success
> coldcalling on doors is phenomenal! You are in a
> league by yourself...
>
> The only thing I would question is the logic of
> going back to homes that told you no once for a
> second time. Wouldn't the chance of "yes" be
> higher by approaching someone for the first time
> at a property rather than one that has already
> said no?

Here is my quote on the return visit.

"If they continue to say "no",then try to leave it at ..."well, ok, Perhaps another time?" If they say "well, perhaps and/or maybe"....then go back next month or two, knock, put a huge smile on your face, outstretch your arms and say "hey you remember me"

If you ask the "perhaps another time" and they still put off a firm no, then I DONT go back.... If they give off a maybe or perhaps , ONLY then will I return.....

Some of the higher percentage also comes from name dropping, after the initial ice breaker ... ie. Oh Hey, I was down at your neighbors "john Smith", and thought Id stop by here too , I really love your (yard/house/location/ETC)

Johnnyanglo- More good stuff ... "be the chameleon"

Ozzie- I dont think Johhnyanglo was kidding, lol

Daniel- Great stories! Ive done my share of mowing, raking,and pruning for a few elderly ladies. I even did some indoor work for a 96 yr young gal that lived alone ....the stories she told with her still-sharp mind was worth it for me, let alone detecting.

Yea silver, I think he was serious, especially after seeing that fine E-trac plotting chart he put together.