Opinions please..

I Iearned a long time ago after a tiring long day going slow with a CZ equated to superior depth...I know Tom along with many forum members know CZ's so opinions please.

While airtesting a CZ for a fellow he tried it and accelerated his swing and added 2 inches to the air test depth..Sooo basically if I swing fast will I get better depth in the ground.
Gee 20 years with a CZ and still learning or lets say experimenting...

What say you Tom from your experience ought to be a good start...

Hmmm, never new that, interesting.

Dan,

I have learned through testing and actual hunting in different environments ( beach, parks, fields, etc.) that the swing speed can effect the depth of a target. Most times I hunt with a moderate to slow sweep speed, but there are times on the beach where I swing it faster in areas where there are less targets, and possibly deeper ones. Those times when I do move quickly, it is in all metal mode to cut down on falsing. Get into an area where there are a lot of targets, you have to slow down or you will miss targets due to masking or the unit not being able to recover quick enough.

Not sure if you viewed Toms new beach DVD, but watch him swing that CZ with the 10.5 inch coil. He moves fairly quickly with it, but I believe he is hunting in all metal mode to start, which can use a quicker sweep speed. I do know Tom has his ear trained to listen for the subtle differences in all metal which is a great skill to learn. I can tell shallow iron and bigger targets in all metal mode, but still switch over to discriminate and slow down the sweep to check it out. Most times I am in discriminated mode anyway and don't feel I am sacrificing any depth loss.

I do know this....when air testing, moving a dime or other coin across the coil faster at times does make it seem like it would get more depth since you can hear a threshold break or high tone hit at a greater distance from the coil. But as you know, the ground conditions determine things, not the air.

Bottom line for my hunting purposes is, I always deter on the side of a moderate to slower sweep speed using the CZ's. Better coil control, better overlap, less tiring.

therover61 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dan,
>
> I have learned through testing and actual hunting
> in different environments ( beach, parks, fields,
> etc.) that the swing speed can effect the depth of
> a target. Most times I hunt with a moderate to
> slow sweep speed, but there are times on the beach
> where I swing it faster in areas where there are
> less targets, and possibly deeper ones. Those
> times when I do move quickly, it is in all metal
> mode to cut down on falsing. Get into an area
> where there are a lot of targets, you have to slow
> down or you will miss targets due to masking or
> the unit not being able to recover quick enough.
>
> Not sure if you viewed Toms new beach DVD, but
> watch him swing that CZ with the 10.5 inch coil.
> He moves fairly quickly with it, but I believe he
> is hunting in all metal mode to start, which can
> use a quicker sweep speed. I do know Tom has his
> ear trained to listen for the subtle differences
> in all metal which is a great skill to learn. I
> can tell shallow iron and bigger targets in all
> metal mode, but still switch over to discriminate
> and slow down the sweep to check it out. Most
> times I am in discriminated mode anyway and don't
> feel I am sacrificing any depth loss.
>
> I do know this....when air testing, moving a dime
> or other coin across the coil faster at times does
> make it seem like it would get more depth since
> you can hear a threshold break or high tone hit at
> a greater distance from the coil. But as you know,
> the ground conditions determine things, not the
> air.
>
> Bottom line for my hunting purposes is, I always
> deter on the side of a moderate to slower sweep
> speed using the CZ's. Better coil control, better
> overlap, less tiring.

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I agree

The original F75 platform is another architecture where a fast swing speed improved depth, especially on fringe targets. The MInelab wiggle never worked well with the early F75s. I find the new F75 modes still work quite well with a quick tempo, even the "CL" mode.

I haven't used a CZ but I have used other multi freq machines in an E-Trac and CTX. The word on the E-Trac was "slow and low". I tested that and I found when I went too slow I would lose targets. I imagine most guys must test it as well - at the least it takes patience and is a hard way to hunt for me (and a little boring if you want to cover ground)! Perhaps my somewhat iron mineralized ground is to blame. Not sure, but if the mineralization if higher, then perhaps the machine needs more time to process and such? I know with the CTX that the setting (ground coin) for mineralized ground required more time and so a slower swing was mentioned.

The best depth I got from the E-Trac was with a medium speed.

Thanks guys did some testing in the ground and in the air... indeed the CZ or Explorer series slow is the way to go for my trashy areas as it equates to more depth..stability and less missed deep targets..imagine in cleaner areas might get away with a faster speed especially if you have a trained quick ear.

As far as F series different beast as they recover more quickly so a faster swing is the way to go.

Getting back to CZ's for some reason a left to right swing( side to side) is more accurate than a to and fro(back and forth) especially when checking a potentially good target...

I think a lot has to do with the filters, processing, coil size, mineralization and targets in the area. On a beach i set my disc just about mineral tones and move fairly quickly unless i get into a lot of nulling from targets in the area. In a park.... im slower allowing the targets to dictate my swing.

Dew

In an air-test..... and/or in low or medium mineralization (I know this is a vague statement).......... nearly all detectors will achieve greater depths with a brisk sweep-speed. When a deep target is swept slowly within the coils field...... there is a (very weak) mild rise-and-fall electromagnetic disturbance .... of which may not be detected. If you pass a distant target in the coils field at a brisk pace....... there is a sharp delta/change/differential...... (albeit very weak)....... yet, the electronics will more readily see the 'sharpness'...... subsequently detecting & reporting the target.
Analogous to: You are driving your car 70 MPH and you hit a one-inch high speed bump. The speed bumps length goes all the way across the road..... and is 10-feet in width (driving depth). You may never feel and/or know the car circumnavigated a 1-inch rise-and-fall ...... as it was such a mild/gradual rise..... then mild/gradual fall.
Now.......... you are driving your car at the same 70 MPH speed........ and you hit a 1" diameter wooden dowel. One inch is very mild; yet, the 'sharpness' is so sudden ............. you will detect that you hit something in the road. Same thing with electronics.

Now............ if you have high mineralization..... a slower sweep speed will ascertain greater depths...... because you are less likely to over-saturate the electronics with rapid mineralization detection.

ALSO: If targets are abundant (heavy trash)...... the electronics needs time to reset between adjacent targets; thusly...... a SLOWER sweep speed will 'see between' targets to greater depths.

Good explanation Tom....guess some guys have the learned hearing as I know one fellow that hunts the same areas as I do with an Explorer and has a fast swing like perhaps an XLT and gets as many and goes as deep as any so I guess no stock answer but whatever works.
Been swinging slow with a CZ for years and got them plenty deep and don't plan to change but the fast swing on the air test made me think and since the hobby is a learning process even after 20 plus years had to test it out in the ground once it stopped raining..

Of course dial in faster units such as the F series and you have a different ballgame...but for the most part with a CZ or Explorer series slow is the way to go...