Tom, concerning iron falsing on CZ's...

Tom... during the calibration of a CZ6a/CZ3D, are there adjustments that can be made to reduce the iron falsing on these units, and if so, what would you lose? ...or maybe a chipset or part that controls in part or whole their ability to do so that can be swapped out till you find one that works better? I ask as one of the members here (I forget at the moment who mentioned it) reported that he had owned several CZ units and that one or two of his had very little or no iron falsing. I wondered if those CZ's in question had been factory calibrated in some way that had helped in falsing, but maybe limited another facet of its operation, and so was not a normal calibration procedure.

...also, when detecting for medium conductors such as gold rings, would discriminating out some of the top end of higher conductors, such as silver coins, help in reducing iron wrapping? You can't do that easily with the analog CZ's, but maybe on the digital units?

I don't remember reading that, I've never heard of a CZ that didn't false on iron.
If its true I want one.

It was probably Christopher Ohio that said that. I know he says he has tried a lot of CZ's.

Dr. Christopher owns a lot of real hot ones too......

(((( I know you don't want to hear this.... but ))))..... there's a lot of variables that dictate how any unit handles/ID's iron (and subsequent falsing). But.....Ground Comp/Ground Balance tuning.......... along with properly matched components......... are primary contributors to less falsing. Coil shield paint can also affect falsing.
Disc'ing out higher conductor coins will have no effect on wrap-around.......... as CZ's are audio-direct discrimination. Everything is already processed............ then............ only the audio output is shunted.... when an item/category is discriminated.

Yes. I re-read some of the posts and found that it was christopher-ohio that reported less falsing on some units he had owned.

Tom... I think the "properly matched components" you mentioned that are needed for less falsing will understandably be the most difficult variable to change. Have you every changed out components in an attempt to come up with a detector with less falsing?

I spent some time researching the forum about this problem and found that I had asked a very similar question a good while back that I had forgotten about. There was some very good information you gave there so I thought I'd give a link for it here:

[www.dankowskidetectors.com]

I would highly recommend anyone interested in trying to adjust your CZ for less falsing to read that post.

I also can understand now why I can't just disc out higher conductors to cut down on iron falsing... at least on the CZ's. This also makes sense why the CZ's don't lose depth when discriminating. Would this method of disc'ing out higher conductors work on a detector that does not use audio-direct discrimination? ...maybe the ATPro for example?

Thanks for digging that up, I had already forgotten about it. Cant wait till the next time I take the 3D out to adjust the ground in the old nail site.

For various reasons........ I have changed plenty of components on the analog CZ platform. Internal electronic stability is a primary intent; subsequently, making it easier to perform other functions with greater accuracy .... and easier to measure (and witness) 'change'. "Electronic stability" paves the way to boosting performance in many other facets.

Personally nature of the beast and some units just false more than others.. As quiet as most of the CZ's I have had-used I welcome the occasional iron false or overload for that matter as it seems to me I know I am going deep and if you ever used a 1266 or F75 far superior versus the EMI of these units...old technology or not...
Imagine all comes down to tuning and the matchup of the components but they all iron false and to me again superior depth with an occasional iron false is my cup of tea and let the EMI units for the other guys....

So with the aforementioned in mind, if your hunting in a area that does have tricky rusty iron nails here and there, not heavy though you can check it w the ground balance and then put the grd balance back after checking so as not to sacrifice depth?

And yes, I realize that the shovel is the best discriminator

Aaron always try to set my ground balance spot on but I know Tom and others have experimented with balance settings and perhaps they can chime in.

Might try a smaller coil but again for the most part used a lot of detectors and usually my coil of choice is the stock coil.

Thanks for the old link. Great tip on GB adjustment in iron to reduce falsing. Can't wait to apply it.

Dan, yes stock coil my favorite too. The area I'm searching is loaded w 150+yr sqaure nails and hi tones abound everywhere and takes time to investigate as you can imagine.

It seems to me in my area digital CZ's false less and run a little smoother than analog CZ's. But the digitals seem to be a tad deeper. JMHO.

You mean the analog seem to be deeper?

I 'm sorry,Yes I mean the analog's are deeper. But the CZ-7a Pro I just bought a couple weeks ago is the hottest digital I have owned and almost as hot as my Tom Tuned CZ-3D!

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I 'm sorry,Yes I mean the analog's are deeper. But
> the CZ-7a Pro I just bought a couple weeks ago is
> the hottest digital I have owned and almost as hot
> as my Tom Tuned CZ-3D!

I emailed a guy that was running a CZ-7a Pro here in Germany (saw his video on youtube). He has used quite a few detectors but said that CZ was the deepest of the bunch (not other Fishers or Minelab FBS machines I think.)
I found that interesting as you don't here much (though they are here) about CZ's in European iron. It is all over here. (Come on Dave let the cat out of the bag. LOL)

I passed on a mint condition CZ6a that recently went for 360 bucks here Don't ask me why as I don't really know how I did that... And now there is a mint 1266-XB (with case) that I will probably pass on. Looking for that next CZ6a...

Albert

edit - Thx Aaron. I am looking for a 2nd machine for my neighbor to use as he will be my wheels. I hear the 1266 is not easy to learn. So, good advice you gave. Might just pick up a Tesoro Golden Umax with new tones. Fun machine I hear.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2012 10:01PM by earthmansurfer.

Albert, I'd wait for the right CZ comes along, unless you've had the 1266 before. The 66 is really powerful machine however quite different from the CZ and takes time and patients to getting used too.

I got lucky and got my CZ-7a Pro for 315.00. It was pretty dirty though ,But cleaned up pretty good. Even so for that price I couldn't go wrong and the guy I got it from was the original owner. I had a couple CZ-70 Pro's and in my ground were not as hot as the CZ-7a Pro I have now.

Aaron.... yes....... you can rotate Grnd Bal to see if the iron falsing goes away.................... then rotate the Grnd Bal back to original settings.

Hmmm...
Was out yesterday w the 3D and tried the above mentioned methods to reduce iron falsing w little a no effect. The iron mostly consists of bent/straight, bits and peices of sq nails.
Sensitivty set at 4.3-5, any more and the falsing terrible. Maybe I should have lowered the sensitivity, that may be the problem as its a powerful unit...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2012 03:57PM by Aaron.

Yes..... Sens settings are quite important in this regard also.

So to work around the iron, you're gonna have to sacrifice some depth.

Around iron............ it is inherent that you are going to geophysically/electromagnetically suffer loss-in-depth performance anyway.

I know it sounds crazy to most but I have had a couple of CZ-3D's and CZ-70's that truly did not false in iron(and an X-Terra 505 too). I surely have had enough detecting experience to know the difference and I stake my reputation(if any in a positive light) on that! I don't know why but they were so different than most. If Fisher could have figured out why and reproduced that then many would have totally amazing experiences like I have had...and the CZ would be looked at by many in a different light. BTW, the CZ-3D's were both 1121 and NOT 1021 machines...?

Dr Christopher, what is your sensitivity set at w those CZ 3Ds that do not false?

Thanks
Aaron

I could run them at 4.8 to 5 without a problem in most areas...however, near old powerlines I'd would need to turn the sensitivity down a bit depending on EMI chatter but that did not affect the lack of iron falsing



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2012 07:11PM by christopher-ohio.

Christopher - What does your CZ air test a dime at? I wonder if it is just not as hot a unit so the falsing is also not so bad? Just an idea. I imagine if a CZ is "hot", it inherently will false more? I do know here that some guys mentioned their hot CZ's didn't false much at all and that it was something in the design/tuning, but no one knows what that is!

Albert

My #1021 tested @ 12+ and I have to keep it below 4.5 or it will false way to much