the ETRAC and the CTX

Very interesting those who have stuck with the ETRAC instead of going with the CTX, of course theres been quite few who went to the CTX, then sold them, just to go back to the ETRAC.

Anyway, Ive been watching the ETRAC forum lately and its very interesting the finds compared to the CTX. Unless the CTX users are not posting, the ETRAC users are doing ALOT better.

Sometimes people dont realize I guess, how good they have it with the machine they already have (and learned), probably because they know it so well. Then they start with a new machine then have to start a new learning curve.

I really like CTX, though have to be honest, I still love the ETRAC, and feel more comfortable with it and thats why Im hanging on to it.

Its wisest to hang on to your old model for a while, after buying a new one. However the high cost of the new ones force alot of people to have to sell their current models to afford the latest and " greatest?"

Agreed.
If you can afford it, a very wise thing to. I know the guy who sold me his #1021 was sorry especially after Tom had calibrated it.

What I find really interesting is that I often see CTX's going for 1600 - 1700 or so bucks. ($, € or pounds - take your pick). That is a huge drop off - I really don't understand it. It is too good a maching to have that big a drop off but I guess the performance is too close to the E-Trac to warrant the higher price on the used market. I got 1800 for mine in Germany but only paid 2000, so it was fair that I "paid" 200 bucks for 60 hours of use

I sold my CTX and went back to the E-Trac (which I am now modding). I loved the performance of CTX overall. But I didn't like its: sounds, 5lb weight, bulkiness / 2 piece breakdown and faint screen. The sounds were ok but I prefer the E-Tracs. I have said it before but it really seems that Minelab is getting a more digitized sound with each release. I just don't know why they didn't make a light E-Trac. In my opinion (and many others as well) they would have killed the market if priced right. Now, I get the very strong
feeling that Minelab is going to release a cheaper version, much likes White'd did with the V3i to VX3 as it seems some are put off by both the price and "gadgets". I might revisit it, but the 2 piece breakdown and 5lbs of weight are the two biggest factors for me selling it. I did love the speed of the unit, rinsing it off due to the waterproofing, the options/menu functionality, pinpoint trigger button (though too high), updateability, as well as having a color screen. Target trace really did add a lot to the target information (but can be dangerous if you rely on it too much). I would just love a CTX in a smaller package for less money and add the "variability" setting back in to the audio options. Maybe have an E-Trac, Explorer SE or II audio menu option. Or even an Explorer SE screen layout. I can imagine that attracting lots to the update. I imagine they can get the sounds back to being more desciptive with the update funcion.

It was tough letting the CTX go but I thought in the end it isn't that much better than the E-Trac - No where nears the price to performance ratio of the E-Trac. I mean why pay that much more for a debatable small improvement in the field? There was one spot though where the CTX just shined over the E-Trac and the mineralization there was lower. I was shocked at how many more coins I got in this one spot. Outside of that one spot I did find a few more targets in my other spots but I can't say if it was the machine or that I passed the targets up.

I agree with Possum as well. I really didn't expect the CTX to be as different as it was. But again, I really liked the unit. I'll see what Dave does regarding a new CZ this coming year. Really excited about that.

And Aaron, I think there are no where near as many CTX's out there as E-Tracs, so we will never see the same amount of finds on the forums.

Albert

Albert...... well said.

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Although the new FTP multi-freq platform that is in the mill .... may end up replacing the CZ (possibly).............. and ............ albeit a multi-freq platform............ may not be kin to the CZ..... (nor wanted to be related to a CZ). It may end up being closer to a G2/F75 platform..... but multi-freq. My speculation.

Interesting Tom, but at the same time it's torture for us. You do know this.

It makes sense what you are saying. The speed of the CTX, though not on par with the units mentioned is head and shoulders above the E-Trac. I can imagine a very fast CZ "like" unit that combines some of the best attributes of both machines. Maybe even switchable from single to multi freq and still simple like Fishers/Teknetics units are. I would like to see them come up with a cool name this time. ehehhe Like call it the "Coin Zapper" or the like...

I do agree with you regarding the Etrac tones Albert, I like them better than the CTX. Especially the hi-tones. The Etrac just seems less digitized or something, not sure what it is.

I havent downloaded the new upgrade for the CTX yet, I think the new pinpoint feature is gonna really be a plus though. I'll do it tonight and take the CTX tomorrow and let you know....

Aaron Wrote:
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> I do agree with you regarding the Etrac tones
> Albert, I like them better than the CTX.
> Especially the hi-tones. The Etrac just seems less
> digitized or something, not sure what it is.
>
> I havent downloaded the new upgrade for the CTX
> yet, I think the new pinpoint feature is gonna
> really be a plus though. I'll do it tonight and
> take the CTX tomorrow and let you know....

I still liked the sound of silver on the CTX but it doesn't hit as high. I really wonder why they didn't add the variability setting with the last update? As far as why the sounds are continually getting more digitized, that is a great question!
Why does the Explorer II have such great sounds? Same for the Explorer SE, etc? Not that the CTX's sounds are bad, but with electronics you can pretty much replicate sounds as well as make them sound how you want. Again,
I'd like to see a simple update as far as sounds go, some choice.

The feature I miss most on the CTX would be the target trace on targets. In particular the circe/cross hair that fills up according to the size/depth of the target. I really liked that feature. It is frustrating to be so close to having my
ultimate detector in the CTX but just having to let it go due to my circumstances (bicycle and backpacking!)

Albert, you know I was thinking the same thing regarding the Explorer SE Pro. It seems the silver tones were even better on the SE than the Etrac , and now it seems the silver tones are better on the Etrac than on the CTX!
What gives????

And I think they where best on a sov.

My biggest fear is with ML doing away with the Sov and Exp.... they will redue the Xcal and make it a FBS of course with a MUCH higher price tag. It wouldnt surprise me if they didnt shorten their willingness to do repairs on the Exp's and Sov's to get those machines off the used market faster. Nothing sounds like an Exp on silver. Im waiting on the Fisher machine as well.... duel freq F75 if i can use it on the beach might be nice IF its water proof id sure try one.

Dew

Heck some of the guys even sold or traded the E-trac to go back to one of the original Explorer series....Personally thought the second run of the XS was as good as any of them. Holding a 20 year old CZ6A in my hand that certainly is as good and in many cases better than the models that followed one wonders. Certainly the new units coming out once they get the bugs out of them are in their own right good machines but nothing like a well learned unit that feels like the extension of you arm.

Actually many of the new units surfacing just are a different color, add a bell or whistle or even change the name of existing facets and its called marketting. All our situations differ but think hard before you give up your trusty well learned unit to try the newest super duper unit lest you may or may not be satisfied.
For gosh sakes one or three days does not qualify as a learning period and may take you a month or perhaps even a season before you become confident with your new unit so act accordingly and certainly this post is just a generalization and again" so many detectors...so little time".

If the cz6a is as good as the models that follow it Dan, it sure doesnt reflex it in the price. Check out those links I posted in that thread last week, those units were in cherry condition and didn't even come half near the cost of a #1021 3D
The auction on the 70 Pro is still going however and looks like its going to do a little better than the 6a's.

Aaron Wrote:
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> Albert, you know I was thinking the same thing
> regarding the Explorer SE Pro. It seems the silver
> tones were even better on the SE than the Etrac ,
> and now it seems the silver tones are better on
> the Etrac than on the CTX!
> What gives????
One thing I can say, the Etrac has a sweet silver sound.
Hard to discribe.

Mark have you had a explorer? The silvers a little bit sweeter to the ear...

Regarding sounds: I think it was Tom who has recently said that a CZ will never sound like an E-Trac (or FBS unit) due to how it processes the information (or something like that, correct me if I'm wrong). I wonder what has happened on the way from an Explorer II, to SE, to E-Trac to CTX as far as the sounds go??? I was thinking the sound changes were intentional but now after I got thinking I wonder if it is a function of "improvements" in processing. Meaning, perhaps, before there was less processing happening and the user had to do more with their ears and now, well, the machines are doing more for us. Any ideas here? Perhaps we can't ever get those old sounds back

BTW - I never used any FBS machine before the E-Trac and CTX, so my comments on sounds (outside of those two units) were taken from years of reading the board.

Albert

What a great thread. With the introduction of color screens and fancy new gadgets a discussion on sounds is wonderful. Hunting with the ear and listening for familiar tones. The way detecting was meant to be. The E Trac screaming 12-47 is one of the best sounds on the planet.

goodmore Wrote:
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> The E Trac screaming 12-47 is one
> of the best sounds on the planet.

Yeah, sure makes you stop in your tracks doesn't it!

Just found out today that the difference between the Etrac and the CTX regarding sounds is the CTX's are completely digital.

If been seriously thinkin about picking up a Deus when the updated model comes out. Then Tom throws out those new fisher tidbits................Dang it Tom, tell us more, LOL.
I read somewhere that Dave J. liked multi- freq science..... sounds like his boss is turning him loose!

Aaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just found out today that the difference between
> the Etrac and the CTX regarding sounds is the
> CTX's are completely digital.

What do you mean Aaron? I wasn't aware that the E-Trac had analog sounds. Explanation please...

Ralph DeGraw (SunRay) just told me that yesterday Albert, that's all I know

Aaron to answer your question Aaron CZ6A's were deep right out of the box when new have very few problems and are weather resistant and I can usually run my sens at 6-7-8 and well mine will grab that clad dime at about a foot which is par for this unit. Even though an older unit they take a licken and keep on ticken.
On the other hand CZ6 had a 4 pin molded connect on the coil and the female end in the control box was plastic and broke and many were faulty thus $175 to get changed to a
CZ6A from post I have read and one fellow just bought one and the meter went in one day and understand for the CZ3D parts to be interchangeable have to be converted so imagine his bill will be over $200. Lot of bucks to put in a 20 year old unit...while the CZ3D came out in 2004 and most are newer. Price difference is understandable.

Aaron to continue....CZ70 pro for the most part can be run at sens of 4 and any higher will not be stable and not get this depth. Sort of a catch 22 as run an air test at sens 6 and you will get the extra depth however if you can't run at 6 in the field ???? in other words just a generalization but hope you get the jist of it as far as depth and running higher sens. my CZ6A is superior but have to admit the superior notching system is nice and some prefer the pistol grip but the hipmount on my unit is much better.I speak from experience as have used all the models and to tell you the truth no bad CZ's some just better..

In defense of older Minelabs indeed I loved the tones of the Sov. series and well a silver coin just sounded mellow, sweet or what have you. Clumsy, heavy poor ergonomics I modded a few but not able to use for long periods of time thus stopped using them.

Used the Explorer XS, 11, SE, SE pro and probably the best I ever used relative telling me what I was after before I dug. In other words best guts of any unit I ever used technology wise...sorry haven't used the E-trac or CTX and can't compare but to me original Explorer series were deep and loved silver coins..Just too darn heavy for me to handle for any length of time but can't imagine anything being much better.

Dan, I don't doubt the claims made about the cz6a, all I'm saying is its demand is not reflected in the price like the #1021 3D, which IMHO is the best of the CZs. What other machine can you cherry pick ONLY in hi tones and still find practically ALL US coins INCLUDING gold ones! I dont think alot if people realize how special that is...

And yes I'm aware of the CZ 70Pro sensitivity issue, I have one. It's a good unit though mine, a #1129, not a very deep one but built like a tank.

Regarding the MineLab machines...I think if your thing is silver, and that's all your concerned about and not midtones, then you could, if you knew your machine you could do just as well as a Etrac. If your into the midtones, and trying to find inland gold the Etrac offers a lot more info. I found it alot more easier to learn and my nickel count went way up, also the Quick Mask I found a lot more effective in iron, than the SEPro's Iron Mask.

A lot more target info on the Etrac. I think thats a machine that will always hold a good $$$ value.

The CTX has a downloadable upgrade, “Sea Water” mode, which allows underwater hunting with a lot less falsing while using the 17” coil.

While using the E-trac with the 18”x15” SEF coil, have to use Auto sensitivity running around 20 in the extreme low tide zone. Above 22 in Auto, the falsing starts to increase. In manual sensitivity 20 and higher, the falsing, in some areas, is unbearable. The 18”x15” SEF underwater can continually cause false signals, even while using Auto sensitivity.

This video demonstrates how much the new “Sea Water mode” can improve underwater detecting with the 17” coil.

[www.youtube.com]

Although I’ve made some very good finds with the E-trac under adverse conditions, shallow water hunting with a large coil like the CTX3030’s 17” will open up new avenues of detecting, especially without having to worrying about dunking the detector.

Next year, planning on getting one of those expensive detectors, and this new “Sea Water mode”, has increased my confidence in this decision. If the CTX3030 was purely a land detector, that high price would insure that I’d stick with the E-trac. But if you live near a productive beach that had regularly produced in the extreme low tide zone, makes you wonder what is further out in deeper water.

Detecting since Feb, 2010
E-trac with 18"x15" SEF, 13" Ultimate coil, Pro coil, Minelab 8" coil, 4.5"x7" SEF, Sunray target probe
CTX3030 with 17"x13" DD coil, 11" DD coil

What would be cool for a next upgrade for the CTX would be to allow you to have more "Bins", so then you could have more sounds in the mid range then youd be able to differentiate the nickel better and so forth.