performace vs speed

Tom, I am somewhat confused about all these tones. If you are digging all tones above iron, why could you not just set your discrim at a point at which a 3" nail is eliminated and then dig everything else ? This would eliminate a lot of the dig/not dig decisions and speed up your hunting time. The Shadow X-5 and the Tejon are very fast response machines and would seemingly work as well in the above scenario as an expensive F75 without all the mumbo-jumbo SL/DE,etc. What say you?

Frank L/TX

suffice it to say, neither the Tejon or X5 are even in the same league as the F75 when it comes to separation, and/or unmasking.
I used the X5 for YEARS....and its not even close.(and the X5 is a more versatile machine than the Tejon) I THOUGHT the X5 was fast and separated well, TILL I got the F75. Never looked back.......... Streak!

Frank,

That is correct. You can adjust your Discrim to knock out small iron..... such as a 3" nail..... and dig everything else. This is assuming you are strictly relic hunting. If you are coin hunting; this approach would be ill-suited.

That being said; the F75.....currently...... is the industry leader for extremely enhanced adjacent target separation characteristics.... especially in iron/nail infested sites; as most/all relic sites present........a absolutely critical function for true/professional relic hunters. A concentric coil at old forts is ill-fate strickened. The F75 elliptical DD coil in concert with industry lead microprocessor clock-speed...... leaves all others behind....and not by a narrow margin. If one can handle the audio "fatigue-of-reality" F75 accolades.... success is exponential.

Tom

I used a Tejon for 1 1/2 years before going to the F75 and can say my good finds have increased at a very unusual rate. Since I keep a detailed account of where, when and what of all my hunting trips I can say state I've found more silver with the F75 in 3 months than all of the last 3 years combined. In fact I've found 9 silver dimes and 3 silver quarters since April 1 of this year.

have you tired a F75 vs the other machines you mentioned?

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

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If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

No, with economics being what they are, I need to get rid of some of my , might you say, dinosaurs, and then get an F-75.

TDD

Hi Frank. Theres no need to do that with the F75. Your Meter tells you the Targets value coupled with the Tone . If the three inch nail comes in on the meter at digital number 10 then we know its trash Theres no need to knock out with discrimination the nail . The detected Target says its 10 so you ignore it. this is why i detect in All metal. Whatever my detector detects the value of the detected item is shown. its then down to you to decide whether you want to dig that target or not. This detector is a hard OR as simple as you make it.

Thanks, Jeb,that's simple enough.It would appear that using only one tone in conjunction with the meter would be the simpliest of all scenarios, thereby eliminating a lot of time-consuming decision making. If it registers within your dig paramters, dig it. Also, would not a smaller coil present less masking of adjacent targets than a large windshield-wiper coil? Makes sense to me, especially in the junky lots that most of the guys around here hunt, and not too many of them at this time, since destruction/construction is at an almost standstill. This subject has gotten way too complicated. Has the objective became sceintific evaluation of each and every signal or as I believe, digging goodies as quickly as you can in the time frame alloted for each session?How complicated is that? What say you, experts.

If it were as easy as "believing" the meter, then detecting would take NO skill at all. While there is a LOT of value in the Beep/Dig method (NO vdi meter...just dig what sounds good), having a meter had its value too, even if its not on the money very often. WAY too many variables in the soil....with co-located targets..and in the angle the target sits in the ground to rely much on the TID, BUT, as I said, it is a useful tool in making the dig/no dig decision at times.
Despite what you may or may not have read, the F75 is actually a pretty dang easy machine to use. Everything is right on the screen for you to see, and the interface is very simple. The trick, as in ALL detectors....is learning what the machine is telling you.
The F75, unlike "most' other machines, does some creative things in the software, so things arent linear like with most older analog machines. One of those things is how it "opens up" when you go below a certain disc setting. ALL machines will detect better and deeper with low disc settings, but the F75 is in a class by it own.
I'd like to expand on something tom said in this thread, and that was

"That is correct. You can adjust your Discrim to knock out small iron..... such as a 3" nail..... and dig everything else. This is assuming you are strictly relic hunting"

I'm going to disagree with that statement. Most relic hunters I know DONT try to knock out small iron, and for very good reasons. There are a lot of desireable low to mid conductors in relic hunting sites, and I have found over the years that knocking out even small iron will mask certain targets you "may' be able to hear with disc settings BELOW your target range. Also (And this is a BIG also), "most" Relic hunters WANT to hear ALL the iron for a very simple reason. It will alert you when you are entering an area that has seen heavy use, (has the most ferrous targets)and therefore will likely hold the most relics. Aside from
THAT, not ALL good relics are non-ferrous!
I'd be much more apt to want to dial in a bit of discrim if I were simply coin shooting then if I were relic hunting! But thats just ME, and to each his own.
I prefer 2f tones too...and when using that in conjunction with very low disc and high sens settings, I have no need (in most cases) to even look at the meter, except for in a few select spots. Am I missing targets? almost certainly! BUT, after removing the lions share of the targets in 2F, and doing it without getting a giant headache........... I WILL go back in and hunt in monotone to try to hoover up the stragglers. For ME, its a matter of detecting in a fashion thats comfortable and FUN, but still very very productive.
One instance where having the meter can help you is when you have a good target that wants to ID as iron (for whatever reason). Lots of times you'll get a little positive "bounce" in the meter, and that will be the only clue you'll get hinting that its a desireable target. It may be co-located with iron, and you may be unable to get a good angle on it for a clean ID. Actually, Delta pitch lots of times will do the exact same thing. you'll get a small high tone in the middle of the iron noise, and thats almost always worth investigating.(But I Rarely use DP as it tends to produce a LOT more high iron falses than 2F) 2F tones will do the same thing.Hunting in 2F at a mid 1700's mission site I have, there is TONS of iron in various stages of decay, and a LOT of the real deepies at first glance (or should I say first "sound") ...will appear to be iron..............But...BUT..... if you really listen (here is where the value of GOOD phones comes in!), you'll hear a little "good" sound in the middle of the iron grunt. Almost ALL of these signals are DEEP......good targets in the edge of detection......or mid depth targets close to a masking source.
I only have three brands of Phones. Troy pros......... Grey Ghosts...and Killer B's. The only phones I can hear some of these "nuances" with are the B's, BUT, I'm VERY hard of hearing (mostly high range), so dont take this as an endoresment for any particualr phones. My personal choice my be simply because of my hearing defiencies. ( but this may be good info for those with hearing like mine)
Point is.......real good phones will enhance ANY machine, and are definately better than no phones at all.
Sounds like you have been around the horn a few times, and have developed techniques for dealing with things where you hunt most often, so take all of this with a grain of salt. What works very well for me here may not work for you. Generally speaking though, everything else being even, what I prefer works very very well in most relatively tame soils. Streak!

Tis a very good post of yours Streak ,and i understand everything you say, in my post i was trying to simplify to Frank the basics as sometimes trying to explain things to people can if you get too technical sound daunting. But as i said I do agree with everything you say. I`m not a relic hunter but i do tend to use AM mostly for "olde School values " for Depth.
As i`m sure you will appreciate even not looking at the meter is no 100% guarantee that the good signal Is what it says it is on occassion. i`ve had a great signal ,without doubt a really good signal on all points of the compass. The readings been about 35 or more and I`ve dug to find a Round piece of large heavily rusted iron ring,
I thought Damn blast that WAS a great signal, the reading was great too and it was an iron ring. So even when ALL the signs say yes its a go-er, the result can be a disappointment. Its not common but i have had it happen .

PS i use Nugget Busters NDT`s ,and find them just great.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2009 09:39PM by Jeb.

Streak,

Yep, that's correct. There lies a huge differential between Fort-site hunting vs. battlefield hunting. At old Fort sites; you are looking at huge volumes of iron.....usually in the form of nails.....due to structures. It is highly desirable to ignore all the iron. At battlefields, (usually).... there are no 'structures'....... so....... the iron targets can very well be implements of the battle. A GOOD thing. Dig iron!

On a mainstream overlay; many detecting sites that detectorists hunt...... are usually not battlefields/Forts. Finite/discrete Fe Disc is paramount for unmasking abilities......... unless pits are to be dug/excavated...... as in the most recent article on the homepage. And THIS is also NOT the norm. Only crazy people dig pits w/1000-Lbs pull hand-held Rare-Earth magnets...... so as to truly 'unmask'. ((( Of the thousands of iron targets removed....... less than 0.01% were 'keepers'.

Tom

just hunt on all metal and set your tones correctly. you dig up extremely deep.

Holy crap you aren't kidding. I just got an F-75 after having had the T-2, I thought the T-2 was fast, this thing is like a dragster compared to a Pinto in comparison. I can't believe the speed of this thing. Everything else I've tried seems pretty sedate by comparison.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frank,
>
> That is correct. You can adjust your Discrim to
> knock out small iron..... such as a 3" nail.....
> and dig everything else. This is assuming you are
> strictly relic hunting. If you are coin hunting;
> this approach would be ill-suited.
>
> That being said; the F75.....currently...... is
> the industry leader for extremely enhanced
> adjacent target separation characteristics....
> especially in iron/nail infested sites; as
> most/all relic sites present........a absolutely
> critical function for true/professional relic
> hunters. A concentric coil at old forts is
> ill-fate strickened. The F75 elliptical DD coil in
> concert with industry lead microprocessor
> clock-speed...... leaves all others behind....and
> not by a narrow margin. If one can handle the
> audio "fatigue-of-reality" F75 accolades....
> success is exponential.
>
> Tom

T2 & F75 clock speed are the same...... but the F75 is more powerful; subsequently making it feel faster...as it'll light up even more targets.