Another ML increase??

Ive been watching a thread on findmall about the increase in price on the Xcal in Jan. Also more on some sites like this... [placerlode.net]

This has to be another ML push for money. Just plain supply and demand. They stopped the Sov and Exp are they trying to make it up? Or is it another marketing way to get you to get off the fence and buy one before Jan because they know they dont have anything new coming out.... but others do. If they get your money first ..... you wont have it after the new year when we KNOW new machine will be issued by other companies? Smart.... but im not biting because i know if nothing comes out i like then i could easily make it up out there IF i wanted an Xcal again. There prices keep sneaking up.... is this the new trend? For those on the fence .... think about it.

Dew

Starting Jan 1 any company with more then 15 employees is going to see an increase in costs and they either raise prices on goods or see a loss on the bottom line. Or, like many fellow small businesses in my area, they shut their doors. At least they are staying in business! We are going to see a lot of price increases across the board next year.

That doesn't make it any easier to swollow. I'm afraid that we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg at this stage of the game. Just because something is forced on your plate doesn't mean that you have to eat and enjoy it!!!

Wouldnt be quit so bad had they not just last year increased it $100 i believe. Has there been any othere company done increase the last few years... without improvement? Im picky whats on my plate haha.

Dew

Why are they going to seen an increase in costs? Please explain your assumption? What do you base this off of? All they are doing is taking your money without reason like the fuel companies. That is the truth and there is no other legit reason more they are just excuses.

sailorman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Starting Jan 1 any company with more then 15
> employees is going to see an increase in costs and
> they either raise prices on goods or see a loss on
> the bottom line. Or, like many fellow small
> businesses in my area, they shut their doors. At
> least they are staying in business! We are going
> to see a lot of price increases across the board
> next year.

goldmanjace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are they going to seen an increase in costs?
> Please explain your assumption? What do you base
> this off of? All they are doing is taking your
> money without reason like the fuel companies. That
> is the truth and there is no other legit reason
> more they are just excuses.
>

Companies with multiple employees will have to start providing health care to due to "Obama Care". I don't know what the magic number of employees is, but the number 15 that was mentioned, may be it. The "Fiscal Cliff" tax increases will also play a role in trying to make up for lost money...they will pass that on down the line to us, the consumer. This is just what we know about in the US...Minelab is a global company. They have to deal with multiple countries, and whatever it takes to make a profit and not be going in debt. The exchange rate of the US dollar is probably not helping things either...since it is getting to the point of being worthless compared to other countries.

Also saw on the news the other day that in the US, we might be paying $8-10+ for a gallon of milk this year due to a dairy fiscal cliff. That would make all the other dairy products go up as well. Get ready for some hard times. I'm gonna take a guess and say that metal detecting might take a huge hit as well as for places to hunt in the US. With all the counter measures put into place to prevent school shootings and such...I'm gonna guess and say that school yard detecting will be short lived in most areas.....figure they will have huge gates up around schools and keep them locked to outsiders.

As of Jan 1 mandatory health insurance or a monthly fine AKA Obamacare begins kicking in for companies with over 15 employees. Our local medical center fired 250 people for the holidays and put 40% of it's workforce on 30 hours or less so they are legally part time and don't have to be covered. Many people in my industry are closing their doors for good.

This is a huge cost increase for many small to medium companies and we'll be seeing a cost ripple effect as everyone figures out how much it increases their overhead.

goldman -- not sure why you objected so strongly to what sailorman said. He was referring, I believe, to Obamacare. Since companies are going to see their costs to medically insure their employees go WAY up, Jan. 1, that cost is going to have to be felt somewhere. We know it will NOT borne by the company, or on their "bottom line;" companies generally will not accept reduced cash flow -- they have expenses, and employees, obviously, and yet at the same time, they need to keep the business profitable. So, as is ALWAYS the case, any cost increase will be passed on to the consumers -- EITHER in the form of higher prices, OR ELSE the businesses will take hours (and thus, pay) from the full-time employees until they are considered "part time," so that the company does not have to PAY the medical insurance for the employees (and thus they can bypass the medical cost increases), OR ELSE -- the businesses will be forced to simply shut down. HOWEVER the businesses react, though, it will only affect us, the consumer, the "average Joe."

Bottom line, our government cannot keep up with the way they are going (spending), and just think they can "raise taxes" to cover their profilgate ways. BUSINESSES do not pay taxes per se, they raise costs of the product and pass those tax increases on to the consumer. So, the consumer takes ALL the brunt, of ANY tax increase...not only do our own PERSONAL taxes go up, but we pay for the increased tax on the businesses, as well, in the form of higher prices on products. Everyone wants to say "just tax the rich..." Well, in most cases, the "rich" are the business/corporation owners, and THOSE FOLKS DON'T PAY TAX. Taxes are an expense of doing business, and are wrapped into the cost of the product. IF taxes go up on the business owners, you can rest assured that PRICES will go up, proportionately. It will be you and I who pay those taxes. Anyone asking for higher taxes on the "rich," are simply asking for higher taxes ON THEMSELVES. In my humble opinion, we need to get back to the America that our founders intended -- one that values personal freedoms, alongside a limited Federal government (with numerous checks and balances put in place so as to attempt to KEEP the Federal government's power limited...)

Not sure all of this applies to Minelab, though -- they are an overseas company, not subject to Obamacare...presumably, though, they have their OWN reasons that prices need to be raised...

Steve



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2012 08:34PM by steveg.

Sorry, I was typing my reply FOR sailorman, and he posted his OWN reply before I did... And, DanielTN replied as well.

By the way, I obviously agree with the points both sailorman and DanielTN made...

Steve

if they are not careful they will price themseles out of the market!

All I know is, it's snowing a little here in Savannah Tn and I'm going detecting at an old fairground with my Minelab Etrac. I better hold onto the Etrac and not scar it up. It may be an investment item. Bact to the gist of the thread: I have been secretly pining away for my first Pulse Induction Unit. The Minelab 5000 ( or one of the lower numbers like 4800? is that one? or even a 4500). But they are already way out of my price reach and if they increase the price on all of their units....this will become a rich man's game. If what I just said was totally irrelevant, the please excuse my ignorance. But I WILL unashamedly say this: Now would be a good time for a man (from whatever country) to start looking inward. And if he finds that he doesn't like what he sees, as happened with me,......the start looking upward: "our salvation draweth nigh".

*** if they are not careful they will price themseles out of the market! ***

Only for a short time - when their board of directors sees their quarter earnings report, the prices are lowered again. This is the self-correcting mechanism inherent to capitalism. Capitalism works until government interferes, picking winners and losers, punishing losers through excessive taxation and regulation. Unions can lock wages and benefits so that during a down-turn the company collapses (a.k.a. Hostess Foods).

Then when the market tanks, as occurred with housing, the same Washington robber-barons turn to free-market conservatives and say "see the markets don't work - we need more regulation".

When the remainder of thinking Americans finally understand what "fundamentally transforming America" entails - taxes, massive debt, welfare, joblessness, suffering, regulation, loss of liberty, dysfunctional schools, failed health care, law-breaking and crime, disregard for the Constitution, lies and scandals ... a liberal utopia doomed for failure, perhaps the populace will be ready for limited government, liberty, law and order, and common sense - just maybe.

well said, IMO, Johnny.

Steve

He did not mention Obamacare in his post, if he did I overlooked it. Even if this is the case, I can not see the connection. It just a hype being made. I am from Germany, we have a healthcare system and this has nothing to do with our prices going up, that is if they were to go up.

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> goldman -- not sure why you objected so strongly
> to what sailorman said. He was referring, I
> believe, to Obamacare. Since companies are going
> to see their costs to medically insure their
> employees go WAY up, Jan. 1, that cost is going to
> have to be felt somewhere. We know it will NOT
> borne by the company, or on their "bottom line;"
> companies generally will not accept reduced cash
> flow -- they have expenses, and employees,
> obviously, and yet at the same time, they need to
> keep the business profitable. So, as is ALWAYS
> the case, any cost increase will be passed on to
> the consumers -- EITHER in the form of higher
> prices, OR ELSE the businesses will take hours
> (and thus, pay) from the full-time employees until
> they are considered "part time," so that the
> company does not have to PAY the medical insurance
> for the employees (and thus they can bypass the
> medical cost increases), OR ELSE -- the businesses
> will be forced to simply shut down. HOWEVER the
> businesses react, though, it will only affect us,
> the consumer, the "average Joe."
>
> Bottom line, our government cannot keep up with
> the way they are going (spending), and just think
> they can "raise taxes" to cover their profilgate
> ways. BUSINESSES do not pay taxes per se, they
> raise costs of the product and pass those tax
> increases on to the consumer. So, the consumer
> takes ALL the brunt, of ANY tax increase...not
> only do our own PERSONAL taxes go up, but we pay
> for the increased tax on the businesses, as well,
> in the form of higher prices on products.
> Everyone wants to say "just tax the rich..."
> Well, in most cases, the "rich" are the
> business/corporation owners, and THOSE FOLKS DON'T
> PAY TAX. Taxes are an expense of doing business,
> and are wrapped into the cost of the product. IF
> taxes go up on the business owners, you can rest
> assured that PRICES will go up, proportionately.
> It will be you and I who pay those taxes. Anyone
> asking for higher taxes on the "rich," are simply
> asking for higher taxes ON THEMSELVES. In my
> humble opinion, we need to get back to the America
> that our founders intended -- one that values
> personal freedoms, alongside a limited Federal
> government (with numerous checks and balances put
> in place so as to attempt to KEEP the Federal
> government's power limited...)
>
> Not sure all of this applies to Minelab, though --
> they are an overseas company, not subject to
> Obamacare...presumably, though, they have their
> OWN reasons that prices need to be raised...
>
> Steve

I vote to close this thread, it is becomming to political. Not that I care about politics, I just think it does not belong here. I dont mean to bash anyone, please dont get me wrong. It just gets me what people will use as an excuse instead of seeing the obvious. What was minelabs reason for the first price increase?? Did they want to raise thier prices so the gap between an etrac and a ctx was 100 bucks less LOL or was it that everyone though Obamacare was going to be implimented mid 2012?

Yes take it outside. There are political forums out there. Use them.

goodmore --

I see no way to have a conversation about why the price of a particular product may be going up, without economics (and thus politics) coming up during the discussion -- especially with a group of thinkers, like we have here. The original point of the thread revolved around economics, and to me, the thread remained generally "on topic." While I agree that this is not a political forum, and rarely do/will I voice politics here, the flip side of that is -- if you did not want to get involved in the discussion, you could have opted to ignore the thread...

Steve

It's simply this. A cost per employee that has never been present in our economy is being introduced across the board as of Jan 1st. That raises manufacturing costs and operating costs here. There are also exchange rates at play and import/export duties when things cross borders. For a multinational company to meet it's goals it looks at all the factors and adjusts accordingly. There well may be trade treaty changes coming up as well, I'm not as current on those as I just do business in the states. The bigger the company often the more impersonal it gets, the nature of things.

Our economy here in the states though has been on a rough ride and the future for many sectors is looking rougher. Different companies are going to make different bets. That's business. It's easy to sit on the outside and "Monday morning quarterback" but since we don't have all the facts of what the company is dealing with it's at best uneducated guessing.

I felt is was marking.... again like they did with the CTX, that many didnt like. It generated a lot of buzzz. did it slow down the buying of the Blisstole and Deus which had started to get some following quickly. must like gas prices.... they tend to let us know its coming .... like some how that makes a feel like nothing we can do any way. $250 in a couple of years.... id be ok with that IF they fixed the coil separating and knob problems... gave us a straight shaft ... other wise i feel im get a shaft alright. Just seems to be a way IMO to get people to buy NOW. For me.... im waiting for the new year and spending my money wisely.

Dew

dew --

I understand your point. It is frustrating that Minelab continues to increase prices -- and warning us that it's coming seems to be a ploy to motivate people to buy. But, I suspect they will continue to raise prices until they notice a substantial enough drop in sales that they have to keep prices steady, or even lower them, to bring sales back up. Presumably, us suckers keep paying the inflated prices, or else they wouldn't view another price bump as a viable option for their business model.

It's like the way we all grumble about sporting event ticket prices. If owners can continue to raise ticket prices, then what it suggests is that us suckers (myself included) must be placing such a demand on the product, that there is room there in the eyes of the owners to raise prices. Our only recourse is to stop buying...

I will say this...if the CTX3030 was released at E-Trac prices, I would right now be scrambling to try and find some way to scrape up the cash to get one. But, with them priced a grand HIGHER than the E-Trac, there's simply no way, so I'm not even trying. I have totally resigned myself to swinging my Explorer for as long as it will keep running. From that perspective, Minelab has lost at least ONE customer...not because I don't think it's a really good machine, but instead because I simply can't spend over $2500 on a detector. My budget won't allow it. If enough people find themselves priced out of the market like I am, prices WILL come down...

Steve

As the US dollar drops the only way for Minelab to stay in business is to raise their prices. In 2009, the Austrailan dollar was only worth $.60 to our dollar. Now they are equal, for now.

I think you just confused me..... their dollar is equal... sounds like they just got an increase already by 40%? I agree Steve..... even at $1700 id bought a CTX. We lost a couple of good machines this year, price of the CTX is out of sight for some of us, and as far as the Xcal is concerned i dont mind paying more.... IF they took the money we pay and made the repairs they KNOW needs to be done. There is no excuse for having knobs falling off, coils separating, battery chargers without a way of knowing if its charged, caps on the pods coming off, cables cracking..... or warranties for 1 year in hopes these things happen after that. I just thought it odd that when ML was offering a 2 year warranty on machines.... it didnt include the Xcal. ML has a great produce.... id just like to see some movment toward customer appreciation.

The USD has maintained its value against the Australian $ during the past two years holding a $ for $ parity during that time. Same with the Euro: $1.30 = 1.00 Euro. There is no logic to reason that price increases are due to currency fluctuations.

So the price increase is due to 1) cost increases incurred by ML beyond our border, or 2) an opportunity by ML's marketing folks to grab a little more profit assuming there remains continued strong demand for the Xcal at a higher price point.

... or fear that UN troops wearing their signature blue helmets will enforce Obamacare worldwide...

(sure)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2012 02:46PM by go-rebels.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you just confused me..... their dollar is
> equal... sounds like they just got an increase
> already by 40%?

Dew,
It's a decrease. For an example, if the US dollar was worth twice as much as the Australian dollar, for every machine they sell in the US for $100, the will get $200 Austrailian. Now if the US loses vale and the ratio is one to one, for every machine sold in the US for $100 is only $100 Austrailian. This is the same reason British Leyland stopped building MGs. The British pound came up in value and it was no longer profitable to sell cars to the US. Between 1949-1953 MG produced 29,000 MG TDs, less than 500 stayed in the UK, the others were all exported.

Seaweed, why has Minelab increased prices now, with no net currency exchange rate change in two years?

(... and we all know why British Leyland stopped building MGs. They were woefully inefficient and MGs were crappy cars compared to their contemporary competition. BL went straight downhill after the company was partially nationalized in the mid-1970's. Currency exchange rates were the least of their many problems.)

This is at least the second time you wanted to "correct" the direction of a thread.
If you don't like what you read, don't read it, skip over it.
Sometimes a thread will veer off some, get over it.


goldmanjace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I vote to close this thread, it is becomming to
> political. Not that I care about politics, I just
> think it does not belong here. I dont mean to bash
> anyone, please dont get me wrong. It just gets me
> what people will use as an excuse instead of
> seeing the obvious. What was minelabs reason for
> the first price increase?? Did they want to raise
> thier prices so the gap between an etrac and a ctx
> was 100 bucks less LOL or was it that everyone
> though Obamacare was going to be implimented mid
> 2012?

go-rebels, my opinion is they raise prices simply because they think they can get away with it.

Until other brands come up with competitive alternatives and folks stopped buying ML, they will continue.
One of these days hopefully any advantage ML's models have will be taken away by US companies.

I don't know if FT is willing to get into the waterproof units, last time I read, Dave J wasn't too eager to deal with them.
Yet that was sometime back, maybe they have changed their mind now....

Thanks seeweeduh..... my bad, makes sense now. I agree Steve i think its about they can. Ill just say im disappointed its business with little concern about fixing the obvious.

Dew

Quote
Steve(MS)
go-rebels, my opinion is they raise prices simply because they think they can get away with it.

I agree. And they probably will.

Who do you think you are? Why dont you take your own advice then? See below!

Steve(MS) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is at least the second time you wanted to
> "correct" the direction of a thread.
> If you don't like what you read, don't read it,
> skip over it.
> Sometimes a thread will veer off some, get over
> it.
>
>
> goldmanjace Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I vote to close this thread, it is becomming to
> > political. Not that I care about politics, I
> just
> > think it does not belong here. I dont mean to
> bash
> > anyone, please dont get me wrong. It just gets
> me
> > what people will use as an excuse instead of
> > seeing the obvious. What was minelabs reason
> for
> > the first price increase?? Did they want to
> raise
> > thier prices so the gap between an etrac and a
> ctx
> > was 100 bucks less LOL or was it that everyone
> > though Obamacare was going to be implimented
> mid
> > 2012?