Tone break and breaking the tone

Ok. I think this is lingo for disc level settings correct? On my ctx I used some of Keith's settings he recommended and on two tone ferrous I set my nails to low tone. Anything above nails then high toned. Is this tone break. I know it's a basic question but I really haven't come across it being explained using these terms other than this forum. And BTW I am quickly finding this to be a favourite forum. People respect each other and seem just happy we are all sharing the hobby regardless of what machines we use etc. this is a good place. Thanks

Yes Bob its using the movable tone bin to break the tone point where Say a nail goes from low to high....I know its confusing because on the CTX when you disc you usually black out or notch the screen....but dont black out the screen in the conventional FBS way just adjust your tone bins to your liking....like on the Gold Bug pro you just adjust the disc to move the tone break point instead of actually NULLING a target out in the first 40 point range....

And to add some more insight....

Couple that setting you have on the CTX with a combined mode for the ultimate FBS setup...The Conductive is the go to mode on the FBS for a HOTTER setup but conduct by itself is hard to use since coins and nail's will be high tone....but with the excellent Ferrous mode in use also at the same time you get the iron rejection its famous for ...

You will tell large iron Falsing like this too as it will roll from the high right hand corner high tone to the bottom right hand corner as low tone....it has a unique signature...

Conduct by itself you can not do this ....get the Picture...

You can tell a large pices of iron false in ferrous mode but not in Conduct mode Now you can have the best of both worlds and also be HOT on low conductor's..

Now to just be able to vertically devide the ferrous bin!!!! maybe eventually...

Never black out (DISC) your screen for heavy iron work....the nulling, while faster than the older FBS machines will still null out a good target...wide open screen is the only way to get the utmost out of the CTX if you want to unlock some tricky iron....for any serious iron work the audio gate must stay open at all times to get the utmost performance..

Now back to the vertically divided ferrous bin.. Since you cant do that YET....if you have an irony area that is not producing and you know theres some low conductors in the nail's and such go open screen conduct 50 tone.....dont pay attention to the high ringing sounds you will hear from the nails...concentrate on the low blubs...those are the ones that will be on the nail line and lower that the Combined mode or ferrous mode by itself missed....they are in the lower left corner thats where the smaller stuff hides in dense nails...


As you can see the more you get into the settings and the more you understand what is talking place the more proficient you will become with your detector.. and the more finds you will bring home on the hunt's from wore out spot's...

I would also like to be able to when you select the lowest tone for a bin you have the option to adjust the volume of that tone seperately....Its should be easily done with a update I would think...that and the ability to split the ferrous bin vertically and an awesome machine would become almost perfect for me and others in iron with the understanding of how far to push the FBS before you go to another machine for cleanup ...the FBS platfrmm by nature is limited in iron but its getting better .. and it can get awesome I feel with a simple software tweek update...

Wish I could get the 4.5x7 S.E.F. coil for a CTX and the software tweek setup described above..

Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2013 05:31AM by Keith Southern.

Bob --

I'm glad you enjoy this forum. I fully agree with your assessment of the way things generally go here, and that's what makes it such a good place.

I can't speak for all machines, or for all users, but yes -- tone break usually refers to a flexibility available on some machines, where a user is able to adjust/set the "location" at which the tones "change." Most of the older multi-tone machines had pre-set levels (with respect to VDI numbers) where the tones would change from low to mid, or mid to high, or whatever. On the Gold Bug Pro, for example, which is a two-tone machine, you can choose/set the "location" (corresponding to a VDI number) where you want the "tone change" to occur. I usually will set mine at 40; this way, a target with a VDI number from 0-40 will "low tone," while a target 41 and above will "high tone." I haven't used a CTX, but I think you are right in that you can do the same thing; if you can run it in two-tone ferrous, and it allows you to adjust/set the level where you choose the "break" from low tone to high tone to occur (as opposed to it being pre-set and not adjustable), then yes -- this is what most folks refer to when they say "setting the tone break."

I should note that "tone break" is not "exactly" equivalent/analogous to "setting your disc. level." What I mean is, at least on some machines, you can choose to discriminate certain targets, and yet at the same time set your tone break within the range of your "non-discriminated" targets...

It depends on how you define "discriminated." If by "discriminate," you mean "eliminate" or "blank out" the tone which would otherwise be heard if a target was NOT discriminated, then "setting a disc. level" and "setting a tone break" are not the same. However, by the same token, setting your "tone break" is, in a way, a form of "discriminating," kinda-sorta.

Here's what I mean by that...

Take the Gold Bug Pro. When running in "discriminate" mode (which is kind of interesting/ironic), if I set my "break point" at zero VDI, then ALL targets will "high tone." If I run my "tone break" up to 40, then any target from zero to 40 will "low tone," and any target above 40 will high tone. BUT -- if I continue to run my "tone break" up above 40, then -- on the Gold Bug Pro -- I will begin to completely "silence" the very lowest VDI targets. For example, if I run my disc up to 60, I will still have all targets above 60 be "high tone" targets, BUT -- only targets with a VDI within the 40 to 60 range will give the low tone. MEANWHILE, any target with an ID below 40 will be completely SILENT (or, as I would tend to say, "discriminated out.") Does this make sense? So, technically, if you consider "silence" to be a "tone," in this case, then the Gold Bug Pro runs as a "two-tone machine," as you adjust your tone break up from zero to 40. But then, running the tone break past/above 40, you introduce a third "zone" with a "third tone" (i.e. "silence" being the "third tone") -- such that the lowest VDI numbers are now completely silent.

Hopefully, I have not confused you...but I wanted to clarify that "setting discrimination level," and "setting tone break" are not necessarily equivalent, depending upon how you define your terms. If you consider discrimination to be "silencing the tone of a given target," then "setting discrimination level" and "setting tone break" are obviously not necessarily equivalent. But, if you define "discrimination" as "setting certain, usually "junk" targets to emit a different, lower tone," than your "good" targets, then yes -- it could be said that "setting your discrimination level" and "setting tone break" are equivalent. Bottom line is, if you are adjusting your machine such that you are changing the location, relative to VDI numbers, at which you have a change, or break, in tone -- from a lower pitch to a higher pitch, then YES, you are "setting your tone break."

I hope that is clear and makes sense!

Steve

SORRY, Bob! While I was typing my long-winded answer, Keith posted a good answer to your question! Sorry -- much of what I said was already well-stated by Keith!

Steve

Tough to add to the previous posts but those that learn the audio and its nuances no matter what unit you use(some just have more and better distinct nuances) your pouch will contain what others miss. No one ever said this was an easy hobby and experience is the best teacher....

But what happens if you have a nugget and your tone break at say forty won't the gold id as iron.

LowBoy

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Lawrenzo hopefully you dont need a 40 disc as nail's should come in alot lower....but the nuggets are going to register as size dependant...so small nugs could be lower than even say a nail setting of 30....

I dont nugget hunt myself but hopefully the areas the nuggets show up in are isolated areas away form alot of iron debris...Unless you are hunting for the nuggets in mining camps or in the miners work sites ...But if you are looking for nuggets in stream beds and such like open areas maybe just the occasional boot tack and and spent gun casings will be the only hinderance...

But yes small nuggets can come up lower than nail's and especially in bad dirt....And gold occurs in bad dirt by nature...

I would opt for all metal threshold based mode for serious nugget hunting and use the i.d. system for specialized occasion's...

flake gold and such wont even register the i.d. but at the same time you would need to go to a Higher freq machine like the GB2 or something to hear that stuff anyway...

As you know it does not have an id ..it has an iron check for nails on it though but its for the louder type targets you suspect might be a nail ..But a faint barely moving threshold hit in all metal mode should be investigated as it wont probably even show up in a disc mode..

Keith

I've been rereading this post and realized I never thanked you guys. Thank you. It is making sense now. Looking at the ctx screen is almost multi-dimensional :-). The tone bins overlay whatever disc pattern I create. This is easily seen on the exchange program where one can design whatever suits their needs. This just amazes me. This machine kind of freaks me out with what I still can learn. But with the amount if snow we have I don't have much else to do. Having said that, our club in Calgary is going to have a seeded hunt Saturday (seeding the snow) and we are having a hunt. Be nice and warm out at 7 Celsius. Bob

Holy COW, Bob -- a seeded hunt in the SNOW?!? That's crazy! But hey, on the other hand, 7 C, that's a nice day in Calgary in January, so I don't blame you!

Steve