whites tdi beach detecting education.

ok, my excal is about to be put in the corner and im breaking out my original whites tdi(goldscan 5 in a whites case) for my beach detecting. im hoping I can stick with it long enough, get past the many bobby pins, fish hooks, bits of iron I may dig and really learn the full capabilities of this machine!!! any tips would be appreciated!

p.s. if carl(geotech) happens to read this, would it be possible to buy a surfmaster case, dual field case from whites. I would like to make this machine waterproof!!!

chuck.

Hi Chuck, I just posted about Whites detectors. I don,t post much but love to read about all the things Tom ane Keith talk about. I posted that i don,t see alot about Whites detectors. I love the MXT and just got the VX3, I know the MXT dose very well on the beach, '' not in the water'' but on dry sand. Hope you can give the tdi time to make you happy. I know i have sold some that i just didn,t give time to understand them. Good luck Flintstone

Hey Chuck,
I just bought a used TDI, one of the original two hundred made from an nice older fellow in Arizona. Checked with whites and it is one of the original machines made with the hole through design and has never been sent in for any repairs. I am just learning the machine and not much is available on the internet other than what Reg writes on Whites detector site, and Steve Hearseback (sorry but can't remember how to spell his last name correctly) writes about the TDI.Having said that, my take on the machine is like this:
1) set gain to a little over six ( more as you get used to machine and can get a somewhat stable threshold )
2) threshold to just barely audible.
3) conductivity in all
4) pulse delay at 10uSec
5) frequency midway on dial
6) ground balance at 6 on dial
7) turn machine on and set frequency to quietest operation
8) turn on ground balance and ground balance as needed. If no ground balance can be reached then you have the option of hunting in ground balance on or ground balance off. With ground balance in off you are in all metal mode ( same as the Excal in pinpoint mode ). If machine will ground balance then you must hunt with ground balance on. Just choose whether you want two tone all metal mode or only high conductors or only low conductors.
Now my take on the ground balance control and how to use it is perhaps simplified to how many people view it. I see it as a descriminator. The way I see things are like this: If you have a measuring stick that has markings on it from 0 to 12, and your ground balance is at the 6 position (midway on the dial ), then gold is at the 4 mark on the ruler and silver is at the 10 mark on the ruler. Everything is balanced so high and low conductors read equally well and both give a good signal. Now think of how as you turn the ground balance knob one way or the other how this changes what the machine sees. Think of that ruler as setting on a small gear at the 6 mark. As you turn the ground balance knob to say 8, the entire ruler slides to the right by that same amount. Now the gold is at the 6 mark and is strongly signaled by the detector. The silver and clad coins still can be picked up but at a much weakened response. Now turn the ground balance knob the other way to say the 4 mark on the dial. Now the ruler slides the other way. The silver and clad (high conductors) now receive the strongest signal and the gold ( low conductors ) receive a weakened signal. It is still picked up but not as deeply as in the higher ground balance position. Now for the interesting part of this equation. As the ground balance control is set to the lower settings not only are the higher conductors picked up stronger, but the small iron and foil objects in the ground are descriminated out. They just go away. The lower the ground balance is set on the dial, the larger the iron that is discriminated. But at the expense of a much weaker gold response.
So this makes the TDI a very versatile machine that can be used in most any ground because it is a pulse technology machine. You have control over all functions of the machine. You decide wheather to decimininate and how much. Every site is different. Some have small nails or bobby pins which can easily be descriminated out. Some have larger iron objects. Usually just lift the coil a few inches and most iron will just cut out while a good target will just slowly fade with distance from the coil.
My way of hunting at the beach except in very trashy areas is to hunt with ground balance off for greatest depth. Once a signal is received, turn on ground balance switch. If no signal at the 6 mark on the ground balance then the signal is too deep. Dig a few inches and check again. There will be a signal after once or twice digging. Now turn ground balance down and see if signal diss appears between the five or four mark on the ground balance. If it does then it most likely is small iron or foil, if the signal is still heard at 4 or lower on the ground balance then turn back to six ( so you do not forget it the next time) and dig. High or low tone does not matter to me. It is a good signal. If you wish to dig no clad or silver, then do not dig any low tones either (low tones are high conductors).
Like I say, just learning myself and on relic sights how much descrimination you use has to do with how large the iron you are trying to descriminate out is. For parks the lower the ground balance the hotter the machine is on old silver and clad, again at the expense of low conductor targets like gold and pull tabs.
Hope this helps and I am sure many who own these machines have many tricks that they have learned that most of us have not thought of.
Stuart

I forgot to say that if you are in an area like a park and only want silver or clad, turn up the pulse rate to 25 uSec and remember to ground balance the machine anytime the pulse rate is changed.

Run with ground balance off if you can for best depth.

[www.youtube.com]

Still have my TDI because of that ability to use with or without ground balance. Great beach machine.

Sorry about the spelling of your last name Steve. You probably know the machine as good as anybody out there.

No worries. Everyone else just says Steve H and I even started doing it myself.

wow!!!! thanks for the great reply's! had a 2.5 hour hunt this at the beach this evening, had to stop and go home to grab another battery after the first half hour. set the gain at 6, delay at 10, and hunted without ground balance. dug 55 targets.....

5 tent stakes
2 bottlecaps
1 broken spoon
3 pcs of wire
3 paperclips
23 misc bolts, screws and nails
8 bobby pins
2 buttons
1 washer
1 sinker
1 fishing clasp
3 pennies
1 dime
1 socket
4 pcs jewelry(metal undetermined, will need cleaned)
1 cheapo bubble gum machine type ring.

interesting to me is the lack of coins and also low conductors. I was getting some crushed shell base under 2-3 inches of sand in some places near 1/4 of the way down the slope from the high tide line. 3/4 of the way toward the low tide line and at the low tide line was mush and I stayed away from that area. much to learn!!!!!

my second tdi hunt was about the same as the first, this hunt was a three hour hunt. hunted lower beach and upper beach with 75% of my time and effort in the lower beach. targets on the upper beach were much deeper than on the lower seemingly due to more compacted sand.
my sweep speed seems to need to be quite slow or I will get a lot of false signals and reaction from the sand? settings were gain 6, threshold clearly audible, no g.b., delay 10
I do think there is a lot of info in the audio in regards to large or small, deep or shallow, iron nail or coin(round object) but it will be a very long time if ever before I start trying to cherry pick!!!
if anyone wonders why im posting these boring non-quality finds and hunt info, im doing it to keep a record of my progression while learning this machine and have even invited a fellow forum member that is also learning to use a original tdi to join in. pics and items list below........

2 bits of wire
21 bits of iron
22 bobby pins
3 fishhooks
2 leaders
7 tentspikes
2 staples
1 battery
1 paperclip

8 jewelry
items with
7 being earrings
(one possibly gold)

2 quarters
1966 and
1967 but
not corroded
at all.

2 pennies
1 nickel
1 dime



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2013 01:24AM by seeker41.

That is a lot of targets for a three hour hunt Chuck. Obviously no problem pinpointing with the Dual Field coil. You are finding lots of small targets as well. Odd that there are so few coins found, as well as heavier items such as quarters and fishing weights. You are showing a lot of patients digging everything. Learning all the nuances of the audio signals that this machine has to offer. Why not now walk around each signal with the ground balance off and then turn ground balance on and see if it is a high or low conductor. If it is a low conductor turn the ground balance back to 4 and see if the signal goes away or just softens gradually as the ground balance is reduced. If the signal just softens then it is a good target worth digging. If it goes away completely it is iron or foil. Then dig signal and see what it really is. It only takes one crappy sounding ladies 10k ring to prove me wrong on this technique and I would like to know if you do dig one up using this method. Again, I too am learning the TDI and have so much to figure out on this machine. I love that the operator has complete control of how the machine can be custom set to hunt for only low conductors, only high conductors, or all conductors. You decide how hot you want to run it and at what pulse rate.
It is cold and hunting season here in N.C., so I can not use the TDI in my relic sites right now until the beginning of the new year for safety reasons except maybe on a Sunday if I happen to be off work that day. The beach is a long drive and the days are short but I plan on making it to one of them for a couple of days soon. The detecting addiction is calling me and just playing around in the yard is not my idea of fun. However there is a lot of good testing I can do in my test garden. Plus I would like to see how the TDI handles the iron masking problem. At any rate, I will be adding to this thread as it progresses and hope some of the more experienced users of this machine can add so much more to this thread.
One last thing that I will add, if I may, remember to read the beach for what Mother Nature gives you clues to help your gold total in your finds, and grid the beach from the towel line to the water to find the line of heaviest available objects for that day. Nothing wrong with finding as much gold as possible while learning such a great machine....Stuart

Chuck........... have you (brought with you..... and tested) small gold targets that are categorized as 'test-standards'???
Head-to-head (especially on low conductors) would be very 'telling'.

Consider once you find some gold..... how small and deep was it and would the Xcal have found it? I see an awfully lot of targets we wouldnt have dug. Have you notice any depth increase on those targets the Xcal would have hit? Now is a great time to try using the TDI. I know right now with all the snow birds here the beaches around me are getting cleaned by single freq machines. Ive gotten 5 gold rings this month 2 in the water and 3 on the wet sand. Im using the Sov on the wet and dry sand...... not much there in the dry sand. So now would be a good time to play with a PI like the TDI. I played some with a Finny and DF last year. I really liked the Finny..... would have been nice if it had a 10 uSec.

Dew

ok, waited to long after my last hunt to post so I don't remember much about the hunt except that I seen some nice looking holes in the surf that I could not get into because im using the non waterproof tdi. I really hate not being able to get in the water when I want to and I need to check this things sensitivity to tiny low kt gold like tom said to see if its even worth bothering with.

Hang in with the TDI Chuck. It does have a big learning curve, but worth it in the long run. You can always take the Excall along and split time on the two machines, or look at making a waterproof box for the TDI. It is a special machine.

Why Whites refuses to put the TDI in a waterproof case remains a constant wonder....

I agree with you on the waterproof case smudge. Carl at Whites posted on a forum that it would cost $50,000 to develop a new case design for the TDI because the electronics would not fit in a Dual Field case. So not worth the investment to them I guess. I am looking for a waterproof case in the right dimensions to make my own. If anybody has found one then please let me know where I can get one. It would be worth the investment to me.

Certainly an interesting thread. I am anxious to see the results on small gold standards Tom recommended. I am interested in purchasing a TDI and will see if I can get one of the old ones.

Jim

You might want to try adjusting the pulse delay during coil sweeps to help with ID,ing some of the small iron stuff. I noticed there is a lack of foil, pull tabs mid tone conductive targets in your finds list

Try this use a clean nickel and find out where it drops out by increasing you pulse delay toward 20. Than while your are sweeping your coil to pinpoint the target adjust the pulse delay up toward the nickel range and listen for a change in threshold tone. Do this before you dig it and make a guess as to what it is. Example most of the time a wire or bobby pin will give two tones or a narrow scratchy tone.

Also get a copy of "Pulsepower" By Clive James Clynick.

Good Luck

Yes, definitely get a copy of "Pulsepower", by Clive James Clynick.
Clive James Clynick.....
clivesgoldpage.com

cjc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, definitely get a copy of "Pulsepower", by Cli
> ve James Clynick.
> Clive James Clynick.....
> clivesgoldpage.com

Your username on the forum is 'cjc' that would not be short for 'Clive James Clynick' would it

Junk and Disorderly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cjc Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes, definitely get a copy of "Pulsepower", by C
> li
> > ve James Clynick.
> > Clive James Clynick.....
> > clivesgoldpage.com
>
> Your username on the forum is 'cjc' that would not
> be short for 'Clive James Clynick' would it

Yep that be Clive alright,, the best beach sweeper in the Business,

John.

@auminesweeper ,John,will order a couple of various books regarding beach hunting with a PI machine,plan on doing a fair few sessions this year with the TDI Pro and Mirage PI,the latter is deadly with the small 5'' coil on micro jewellery,its a design by Sven Stau from Canada,lovely little Pulse and any small gold dont stand a chance.

Junk and Disorderly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @auminesweeper ,John,will order a couple of variou
> s books regarding beach hunting with a PI machine,
> plan on doing a fair few sessions this year with t
> he TDI Pro and Mirage PI,the latter is deadly with
> the small 5'' coil on micro jewellery,its a design
> by Sven Stau from Canada,lovely little Pulse and a
> ny small gold dont stand a chance.

That's a good Idea JD, I have spoken to CJC a few times over the years and his knowledge is Second to None, He runs Whites and ML machines most of the time and he really knows his stuff, So you can buy his books with Confidence and you will learn from them, and he is an all round nice guy in the process..

John.

I plan on doing the same thing with my TDI this year. The first thing I recommend doing is ditching the stock coil though.

I have been playing with both the CoilTeks and Nugget Finders and I gotta say, I am really impressed with those Nugget Finder coils. Particularly the elliptical one...the 9X14 Advantage mono. It is lighter and goes quite a bit deeper than the stock Whites coils and deeper than the CoilTeks I have tried as well. There is a big difference between those and the Razorbacks. I have had several of those and am not a fan of them.

Thanks for your kind words, John. I learned what I know from pestering guys like Jimmy Pugh, and Bill Lahr.
Glad the books have helped your detecting experience.
regards,
clive
cllivesgoldpage.com

But you won't be doing it with the Dual Field coil you sold me in place of the OZ coil you said it was.
By they way the 7.5 dual field was a good coil even though not what you said was.




Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I plan on doing the same thing with my TDI this ye
> ar. The first thing I recommend doing is ditching
> the stock coil though.
>
> I have been playing with both the CoilTeks and Nug
> get Finders and I gotta say, I am really impressed
> with those Nugget Finder coils. Particularly the
> elliptical one...the 9X14 Advantage mono. It is l
> ighter and goes quite a bit deeper than the stock
> Whites coils and deeper than the CoilTeks I have t
> ried as well. There is a big difference between t
> hose and the Razorbacks. I have had several of th
> ose and am not a fan of them.

there are some tricks to pass iron, supposedly, on the TDI. Ie.: offset the GB deliberately, etc... But the minute you go to use the tone features to discern high vs low vs iron, is the minute you kiss all the fabled depth good-bye.

I've seen a few TDI guys show up on our beaches. And sure, they get super deep. And sure, they effortlessly cut black sand in true pulse-fashion. And sure, they can find teensy dainty gold items (earing studs, etc...). But HEAVEN HELP THEM if they find themselves on a beach that is riddled with nails.

Most of our hardcore beach hunting here is done after beach storm erosion. And in such situations, depth is no longer the name-of-the-game. Speed of target recovery becomes the factor. And the LAST thing you want in those situations is an over- squirrelly machine that is blaring off on everything, causing you to have to play 2nd-guessing tones and squeeks all over to try to pass paper clips and fish hooks. You would get promptly spanked by standard machines .

Not that I haven't seen guys try. But.... the following year ...... we see them sporting a standard coin/beach machine. Eg.: Etrac, Excal, CZ, or whatever.

And then there's this. A video below of beach testing in France of a prototype discriminating PI called the Manta. It was designed by Alexandre Tartar - who now works for FIrst Texas. French narration but you can figure out when they are demoing allmeta and two tyoes of iron id - multitone and silencer.

Well, OK - there isn't this for sale, it's a prototype, but now it's a Fisher asset - they hired the designer and aquired the intellectual property - some happy day we will get a machine that has PI depth, even in mineralized sand and with iron discrimination. Tom is correct, the TDI GB offset tricks do kill the depth - exen correct "GB on" settings do so. Apparently the Manta doesn't have that issue - start at about mimute 18 to see a 16" deep gold ring detected in all metal and still giving a good response in iron reject. Earlier in the video they show detection of ring directly under iron in iron reject. Fingers crossed thst in a year or two we will have an awesome new alternative for the beach.

[m.youtube.com]

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2017 06:43PM by lytle78.

One thing to Note is that how the Depth increases when you turn the GB off on the TDI Pro, BUT with the TSI SL you will loose depth if you turn the GB off, The TDI SL gives better depth with the GB On.

Will be taking my TDI Pro out again this sunday on a very interesting site,what makes this so unique and challenging is that the soil conditions are about as bad or possibly worse than black sand at the beach but its about 90 miles inland,very few VLF machines can work this site and that would mainly be multi-freq ones and then even then they can struggle as well.

Normally due to the ground being so bad most folks would just pass this site by,but what makes this site so compulsive is that it was a 'Roman trading villa complex' for 400 years and the roman coinage that was dropped is just mind blowing running into 'multi thousand' coins and that is the total attraction.

So the bottom line is that although its not a 'actual' beach environment it certainly as challenging as and also using the TDI Pro,really looking forward to another days hunting on this prime roman site and the challenges it provides and pushing man and machine to its limits lol