salt mode lack of sensitivity?

tom, could you please explain how a detector operating in "salt mode" while not in a salt enviroment could have poor performance compared to a detector that can be switched out of salt mode? what type of performance issues would be expected. i have hunted with my cz20 in fresh water and found very small gold items, not micro jewelry but ear rings and very small/thin rings.
thanks,chuck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2010 03:56AM by seeker41.

Chuck,

Take a woman's wire-band (small thickness) gold ring.......prefer 10Kt white gold (and it must be real gold vs. gold-plated)......and see what your detection range is on this ring in both the 'salt' mode and the 'normal' mode; hoping you also have access to a standard CZ with salt/normal (or enhanced) option. There is a large difference between the two.
With a detector that is locked into the 'salt' mode.... regardless if you are hunting fresh water -or- salt water......the unit is 'fairly' gold-dead. Yes, you can find small gold rings with the CZ-20 in the fresh water or salt water.....but certainly not at any respectable depths.
It is in the 'phase shift' of being in 'salt' mode......that makes the unit less sensitive to smaller gold items.......not so much a part of salt water vs fresh water.

Other units like the MXT will pick up a small 10Kt white gold ring at good depths........until.........the Grnd Bal is configured to be 'salt' adjusted; in which....then....... most of the depth is gone. The MXT's salt mode is achieved in the Ground Bal (vs a seperate switch) but the same principle is acquired.

Same with the F75/LTD; It'll detect VERY small gold items with Grnd Bal at factory-preset of '90'. Salt balance for most beaches would be a Grnd Bal of '0'; in which, the F75 becomes gold-dead at this set-up.

The CZ-20 is locked in the 'salt' mode; subsequently, NOT allowing you to witness (via head-to-head comparison) the large differences between the two modes. The difference is a painful eye-opener.

Yep my wifes white gold band comes in real low on any unit and there is a difference in depth in salt mode on any CZ which varies from unit to unit..To me a minus on the CZ3D especially when used in reg mode which is locked in saltmode and of course same goes for a silver coin and guess thats why I would recommend using the advanced mode when hunting for silver old or new area..On a salt water beach I would recommend a conventional CZ and using the reg mode if I can get away with it especially in the dry sand..Certainly not knocking the CZ3D and basically an old coins unit and again all units have their plus and minus features as would hate to miss a nice white gold ring or silver coin by an inch or so as difference is minimal in units I have used but their is a difference...

Hmmmmmm. I'm a bit confused.

The 'salt' mode on a CZ-3D is exactly identical to the 'salt' mode on ALL other CZ's.

The 'normal' mode (enhanced mode on CZ-3D) is ALSO exactly the same in performance ..... to each other......as far as gold-depth is concerned. No difference.

The big difference is.......the performance differential between 'salt' mode vs. 'normal' mode (enhanced mode for CZ-3D). If you compare a wide-band white-gold ring......there will not be much of a difference. If the gold ring is a very thin (round wire) type band.....like most gold rings are....... there is a large difference between 'salt' vs. normal/enhanced mode.......as far as depth performance is concerned.

Not wanting to hijack this thread but would like some advise to.

Tom, what are the pro's and cons of hunting a beach in enhanced mode on a 3d?
Is it possible/wise to hunt the beach in enhanced mode constantly?

I dont often hunt the beaches but i have a popular one about 5 minutes walk from me and might be interested in finding their jewels they kindly leave behind

Tom quoted "The 'salt' mode on a CZ-3D is exactly identical to the 'salt' mode on ALL other CZ's" which is correct and the lack of sens. is to small gold which comes in low foil or to extremely deep silver so take this into consideration when using any CZ in salt mode. When hunting any saltwater beach whether dry or wet sand if you can get away with using the regular mode or enhanced mode of the CZ3D its a plus. Unfortunately the CZ3D regular mode is locked in the salt mode so on land expect the same if using the regular mode in newer areas. Again CZ3D or any CZ properly tuned is one of the best and my hats off to Tom for being instrumental in the CZ3D's conception especially for those real old areas.Tom kindly chime in as you are the master and certainly have the writing skills to further explain if needed.

Using a CZ-3D in the 'enhanced' mode ...... will only work in the dry sand. Most wet-salt/sand requires the 'salt' mode of operation.

If you plan on hunting the dry sand.....most certainly use the 'enhanced' mode. This will give MUCH greater depth to very small gold items. As far as helping ID (whilst in 'enhanced' mode) on CZ-3D........it's not much of a help or difference......because the 'enhanced' mode is very specifically targeted for old coins. Remember.....when hunting for gold...... over 97% of the gold jewelry in the world ...will ID as 'foil'. Concentrate your efforts on 'foil'. Even more so than 'tabs' readings. Yes, most mens rings ID as 'tab'.....BUT.....most men do not wear 5 rings per finger....like many women. In fact, a lot of men do not wear any jewelry. (Quite the opposite from our counterparts!).

> NASA-Tom Wrote: regardless if you are hunting fresh water
> -or- salt water......the unit is 'fairly'
> gold-dead. Yes, you can find small gold rings with
> the CZ-20 in the fresh water or salt water.....but
> certainly not at any respectable depths.
> It is in the 'phase shift' of being in 'salt'
> mode......that makes the unit less sensitive to
> smaller gold items.......not so much a part of
> salt water vs fresh water.
>
> Other units like the MXT will pick up a small 10Kt
> white gold ring at good
> depths........until.........the Grnd Bal is
> configured to be 'salt' adjusted; in
> which....then....... most of the depth is gone.
> The MXT's salt mode is achieved in the Ground Bal
> (vs a seperate switch) but the same principle is
> acquired.
>
> Same with the F75/LTD; It'll detect VERY small
> gold items with Grnd Bal at factory-preset of
> '90'. Salt balance for most beaches would be a
> Grnd Bal of '0'; in which, the F75 becomes
> gold-dead at this set-up.

Hey Tom, after reading through this thread I am left with one question. What machine do you recommend for hunting the shallow surf at salt beaches, assuming you want to find small gold at respectable depths? Is PI the only way to go, or do we have discriminating options?

Best,

Excalibur would be my choice for the shallow surf at saltwater beaches as unlike the CZ20-21 not locked in saltmode...Many also use PI units for extremely mineralized beaches but never used one..but if so be prepared to dig a lot as they go deep even on a bobbi pin...or hair clip...perhaps someone experienced in PI units could offer some input...

Right now..........with current technology,.......there is not a detector on the market that will acquire very small gold targets (and certainly NOT micro-jewelry targets) in the wet salt sand. Plenty of detectors will find very small gold targets in the dry sand..........but most is lost in the wet. Right now.........I'm running a AquaStar-II that is exceptionally 'boosted'......most powerful unit I have ever utilized..........yet, it'll only detect small charms/pendents (of real gold.....not plated) to just a few inches. The Excal & CZ will not do this......even in auto-tune/all-metal mode.
No magic answer (yet).

Tom, would this be considered small gold ? It's 2 small teeth with thin gold fillings. Found with a BHID300 in all metal mode, in wet salt sand at about 2-3 inches.

All I can say is, that has got to be one of your most bizarre "good" targets!

Yup...I have seen gold teeth found, but never teeth with gold. Funny thing is, the following week, by buddy found an entire upper dentures...but no gold !

That's a fairly solid target.........and is nearly a 'small' gold target. Your tooth-fairy has arrived!

Just wondering since I am going to use this as a test target for some of my other machines to see how they respond.

It should be a somewhat/fairly good representation. A open-hoop gold earring or a small gold cross may be a better bet.

By your statement, when the F75 is "
When the F75 is salt balanced the machine can not find gold?
So I'd be better off hunting with preset 90, correct?



Chuck,

Take a woman's wire-band (small thickness) gold ring.......prefer 10Kt white gold (and it must be real gold vs. gold-plated)......and see what your detection range is on this ring in both the 'salt' mode and the 'normal' mode; hoping you also have access to a standard CZ with salt/normal (or enhanced) option. There is a large difference between the two.
With a detector that is locked into the 'salt' mode.... regardless if you are hunting fresh water -or- salt water......the unit is 'fairly' gold-dead. Yes, you can find small gold rings with the CZ-20 in the fresh water or salt water.....but certainly not at any respectable depths.
It is in the 'phase shift' of being in 'salt' mode......that makes the unit less sensitive to smaller gold items.......not so much a part of salt water vs fresh water.

Other units like the MXT will pick up a small 10Kt white gold ring at good depths........until.........the Grnd Bal is configured to be 'salt' adjusted; in which....then....... most of the depth is gone. The MXT's salt mode is achieved in the Ground Bal (vs a seperate switch) but the same principle is acquired.

Same with the F75/LTD; It'll detect VERY small gold items with Grnd Bal at factory-preset of '90'. Salt balance for most beaches would be a Grnd Bal of '0'; in which, the F75 becomes gold-dead at this set-up.

The CZ-20 is locked in the 'salt' mode; subsequently, NOT allowing you to witness (via head-to-head comparison) the large differences between the two modes. The difference is a painful eye-opener.

Mark,

You missed one key word: "small".

Larger items like mens rings (because they are fairly large)........the F75 will find them with Grnd Bal on '0'.

Small gold items are VERY difficult............if not impossible............to find with ANY metal detector whilst in wet salt.

Tom, in your opinion which detectors work the best for exclusive wet beach hunting (in the UK if this makes a difference)

I have been using my cz 3d on our local beach and have found coins dating back to very late 1890's/early 1940's, in remarkably good condition to, like silver sixpences.

But it is almost impossibly to hunt in enhanced which is a shame as i feel i am losing so much depth in salt mode.

Also i have not found a single piece of jewelery.
I did chuck my skinny pinky finger gold ring down and air tested it at about 4" before i lost it in salt mode.

Also some of the british coins i have found on the beach have growled as if they were iron.....learning to dig everything now lol

So back to original question, if you had to recomend a machine for exclusive wet sand beach hunting which would it be?

The recommendation would still be a CZ or a Minelab Excalibur. OR....if you could get your hands on a Eric Foster built AquaStar-II or GoldScan-5.....(these are PI's).

You may want to try the CZ-3D in all-metal (auto-tune) mode with Sens on '10'.....Vol on '10' and Grnd Bal on '10'....if the unit can be fairly stable with Grnd Bal on '10'.

Ye gods i knew i should of bid on this aquastar on ebay
I was expecting it to go for silly money but it went for under $400
sucks bad

[cgi.ebay.co.uk]

Oooops I did miss that "small" word.
Thanks Tom