All-Metal mode on New/upgraded F75

Very different. I don't find it very useful anymore. Deeper items seem to hit better/louder in the disc mode now instead of all metal. I had a very successful formula for deep Civil War bullets in the past with the AM mode that does not work with my upgraded F75. The new AM mode is just too quiet on deep targets. I tried different pitch and threshold settings with no luck.

I really like the new disc mode and really miss the old all metal mode. A shame they don't exist together. Need more time to figure out if I will go back to an earlier firmware.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2014 01:55AM by beastdig.

yep, just posted some findings on findmall. am has same depth as de process in disc. bp disc is deeper. its like there is no gain in am after 50 sense. bp doesnt boost in am either. static am sees fine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2014 03:17AM by detectingMO.

Just tested my prototype F75 LTD and my all metal with BP is about 1-1/2 inches deeper on an air test than disc with BP DE i will will do a more thorough test in the morning.

Oops, I think I lost my decoder ring. I hope it's metal.
Wha'd he say?

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

my speculation is its tied to the iron volume pin point "momma" bug. My dst is on 9.1 and not 9.0 as manual states.

If Imunderstand detecting MO, his complaint is that All Metal isn't deeper than Discriminate in Boost Process. If so, that doesn't mean AM is not as deep as it was before (since he has a new F-75 and not an upgrade - I think).

And beastdig, are you saying in fact that you get less depth on known targets in AM after the mod than you did before the mod with the new machine? Possible of course, but what was your test procedure?

Not saying it ain't so, just curious how the data was acquired.

By the way, this is what I get in air tests with the 11" coil in BP with 99 sensitivity - discrim 0 and the second number in all metal

Quarter - 16" - 20"
Dime - 15" -17"s
Nickle - 17" - 23"

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2014 04:59AM by lytle78.

My test procedure is in the field with real world targets,mostly .58 caliber civil war bullets. My buddy located a deep one and let me swing over it with my machine. The all metal mode would not sound off as strong as it used to and actually seemed inferior to the way the disc mode sounded on the same target. The upgraded F75's AM mode is much quieter just swinging about looking for targets. It's nothing like it was. I could tell immediatley. Not sure if it is by design or just not working.

This is NOT what I want to hear. I'm an all metal hunter. If and when my unit arrives and it's like that, I will be able to tell right out of the box. If it is...bye bye new F 75. I be trading it for a non updated version.

Not what I want to hear either. If and when I send in my 75-ltd, I will jot down air tests. I like what I have and I especially like the all metal on the 75.

It sounds like the prototypes were fine. I had a t2se previous and g2. The all metal on those is probably close to 50% deeper than on the new f75. It's only about 12" on a quarter regardless of process. You might get a fain whisper past that but its nothing like the t2se or g2 was. Disc seems pretty good. I would put the all metal depth even with DE in disc. BP in disc is about 2" deeper. Static "seems" ok. The pinpoint depth is far deeper. It just feels really weak. On max sens you can barely hear the threshold. Which would be fine if it was really maxed on gain. it is not

dMO,

I'm not sure I am reading yourpost correctly. Are you saying that your new F-75 gets 12" on a quarter in all metal? Is that an air test?

Thanks

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Yes air. And yes that's about max. You could probably get a whisper past that but not much. It's very weak. There isn't much gain past 50 on sens. In ground I can lift an inch or two above my 8" quarter. I can go higher in BP disc. The motion AM regardless of process is the same.

Im gonna check mine here in a while to see what its doing but a quick air test shows my all metal side is weak also...i will report back later

Just got my unit this morning and put it together and out the door I went.

I can confirm what has been said in previous posts. The motion all metal is WEAK. 9.0 or 9.1.....from DE, to JE, to BP carrying over into all metal...at 99 sens it is quiet as a mouse but weak. It's quiet but it came at the cost of some serious depth in all metal. There is indeed an audio delay in there too. I could hear it a bit in both modes but more pronounced in 9.1.

If I use lytle78's machine for a base line against mine...you can see some serious difference. I just came back in from testing mine in both 9.0 and 9.1 modes on the same targets he used at the same settings. Here are my results with the 11 inch coil and 0 disc:

9.0 Mode. 99 Sens. BP mode. 1 tone.

Quarter - 14.5"
Dime - 13"
Nickel - 16"

9.0 Mode. 99 Sens. Motion all metal mode.

Quarter - 16"
Dime - 14"
Nickel - 18"

9.1 Mode. 99 Sens. BP mode. 1 tone.

Quarter - 13"
Dime - 12"
Nickel - 15"

9.1 Mode. 99 Sens. Motion all metal mode.

Quarter - 14"
Dime - 13"
Nickel - 16"

------------------------------
This was done outside with a non metallic ruler. The machine was VERY quiet in both 9.0 and 9.1 modes. I'm guessing that on mine, 9.0 is the non DST mode and 9.1 is due to the depth difference. There's a 2 inch loss by going from one to the other on the same objects in the same environment. I seem to have misplaced all my data that I had logged for the F75. At one time I had the air test settings and results for my original F75 and several different coils. I wish I could find it to compare to. Not sure if I'm gonna keep this thing or not.

Wow, that's really odd. Mine is quite different. I Have a quarter which has been buried for five years 8" down in my medium mineralized red AZ clay. In disc i get several inches less air gap above the surface than I get in AM.

EDIT

I needto add a couple of,things. I just realized that my posted air tests,above were before upgrade, so I went out just now and did a quick check. Here are my current figures air test on a clad quarter.,

freq 6 (this gave minimym squakimg in my heavy EMI environment)
Sens. 99
1 tone
bP

Discrim 0 - 14" with ID
AM - 18" - after that the resisual squakimg of the EMI made it impossible to get a clear response.

This is significantly less than I tested before, but the earlier tests were in AZ summer, the air was bone dry, mo ground moistire to help carry the 60 Hz interference from the all underground power distribution system in our neighborhood. Now it's cool and humid and we had 1.5 inches of rain the other day.

I have no idea if this is a factor, if the upgrade cost some depth or if my first tests were screwed up somehow!

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2014 04:08PM by lytle78.

man if my all metal was that good I'd be happy, Daniel! Maybe they increased the transmit a bit and decreased the rx gain. Or just reduced gain and made up for it in software on the disc side. I'm not an all metal hunter, but I'd be ok with those numbers. I'll try to video a test at lunch. I'll use 9.0 which is non-dst for me. Well I'm assuming since it's deeper and faster re-activity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2014 03:59PM by detectingMO.

Please see my edits to my post above regarding a current air test.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

I am impressed by how quiet it is at my house. On previous T2 and F75 models, they were ALWAYS chatty in my yard...at least to some degree. The visual display would often just flash numbers and some times when doing tests, it was hard to figure what was from the target you were trying to get, and what was just interference. Even with that big ole NEL 13x14 coil on there, it is quiet.

When I first went out with mine, I was getting the strange pinpoint sound and several other strange occurrences with audio. Now that I've been back and forth turning the unit on/off swapping coils, etc...I can't get it to make the weird pinpoint sound anymore. There is still a bit of an audio drag/delay in 9.1 mode...especially in BP mode. I'm gonna head to a little spot by my house before it gets too late. I found a few things there while testing the CoRe out and felt like I wasn't getting too deep in the ground the way I was having to run it.

I went out yesterday and used 3h tones for the first time ever. In the past this audio option was too sparky and I would switch to 2f or stay in all metal. I made some good finds at pretty good depths. The disc mode is improved while the AM mode is WTF.

Looking forward to your in field report Daniel...

Run my f75 in all metal if you want to wrap it around a tree LOL..

its wide open even on zero sens...it over the top erratic...cant calm it down no matter what in all metal mode..

Disc mode smooth as silk..


Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2014 09:44PM by Keith Southern.

Man these mixed reports!!!---What's going on here?-----Is FT turning out a bunch of defective new F-75's---bunch of defective new coils---or what??-----On the other hand, some seems to be just fine.------Makes you wonder if some of the F-75 LTD2's (and coils) are good & some aren't.

[www.youtube.com]

sorry for the wind and sickness.

there isn't much gain in the sensitivity dial. maybe the overall gain is lower and sens adjustments small as a placebo affect for all the noise haters (like myself). Overall the until is weaker making users operate correctly. lol I don't know, I do know the disc mode is pretty darn good and easily meets my expectations. The AM is really weak like an omega AM mode, but I don't use AM but a lot do! G2 or older revision t2/f75 would be the way to go if you hunt in all metal. I could hit darn near 16" buried bullet/coin sized targets with a t2se in bP all metal. I've tried a noiser threshold, no luck. pinpoint seems/static seems to still go deep.

Crazy thought, what if DST was supposed to be on 9.0 and 9.0 also has little lower gain. But instead the dst filter is applied to 9.1, cancelling the old higher gain, and 9.0 has not dst but lower gain. Could that be the issue we are seeing? Wish it could be that simple. Glad disc still works well until it's figured out. The lack of clarification for FTP representatives makes me think they are at least investigating.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2014 09:29PM by detectingMO.

Wow Keith. The All metal on your prototype sounds opposite of mine. Yours being overly driven and mine is asleep at the wheel. My old 7a firmware was the happy medium.

I like my 75ltd the way it operates, as is. I like and use AM about 40% of the time... in open fields, when emi is bad and when I know targets are deep with little junk about. I don't think I'll be sending it in.....don't want to take the chance.... It's like having a nice prize and then picking door number three and getting a goat on a string.

I speculate the intent of 9.1 is full DST. Then............ to compensate for the reduction in depth/performance........... increase/boost the snapshot(s) to...... somewhere above 'bp'; yet, below 'cl' timing; hence, audio delay on detected target.

This is probably well understood by many of you but it won't hurt to post it.

Motion All Metal works different than the Disc mode.

In the Motion All Metal mode, Threshold settings adjust the sensitivity, Sensitivity settings adjust the Audio gain. You set up for the best audio quality on the response. You have to look for the best setting. Let the site conditions dictate what it is, not how high the control goes. The site conditions (ground, emi) may not support a 99 sensitivity setting for best audio quality. That includes using BP mode.

HH
Mike.

Am I missing something or misreading something here?
The manual states that DST is on 90 and factory default and to turn off you have to switch over to 91.

From a upgrade view it seems backwards and From what you guys are finding it is backwards and it really cant be set up to act as the old f75ltd.

Maybe Fisher needs to step back and take a deep breath.

Pac Man



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2014 12:38PM by Pac man.

I contacted Juan Trivizo at Fisher when my upgrade was returned regarding DST at 9.0 or 9.1. The user manual was stating DST on 9.0 which was at odds with Keith Southern's video stating it was on 9.1.
Juan Trivizo got back to me saying that he had spoken to the "Tech Guy's" at Fisher and they insisted that the manual was correct and DST is on 9.0. Straight from the horses mouth.

Here is the message.



13 Nov

Hello Adrian,



I just spoke to a tech and he reported that the manual is correct and Keith probably already had the DST off in that setting because settings are saved when the unit is powered off, and the DST can be powered on and off in either mode. Hope this helps you understand a little better.If you have any other questions or concerns please let me know.







Thank You,

Juan A. Trivizo

First Texas Products

(915)633-8354 Ext:112

"DST can be powered on and off in either mode"

This statement dont make sense to me?

What the sentence says is correct, but it could have been written better.

It says ...can be powered on AND off in either mode..." Meaning that once you do a factory reset and set the mode to either 9.0 or 9.1 - turning the detector off and then on again will not change the mode you ser when youmdid the reset. It "remembers" the mode it is in. It remembers everything EXCEPT the frequency if younhave set it to anything except the factory default which I believe is F4. That is inconvenient if you detect repeatedly somewhere where EMI requires a frequency change.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold