The Great Divide - Detecting Splits Into Two Camps

The detecting world looks to be splitting into two camps. On one side we have the people who think no wires and charge everything is the only way to go. Then the other side that thinks one set of batteries is just fine and wired coils even better.

The weird thing for me is it is like I am speaking a foreign language when talking to DEUS people because they just assume the DEUS way is better for no other reason than that is what they prefer. The fact it is not what I prefer seems lost on the wireless crowd. I prefer a detector pretty much laid out exactly like a T2/F75. The only thing I would change is the stupid red button that gets dirty and jams. Why no membrane button there like the pinpoint on the GBP/G2?

The Racer appeals to me because it adheres to a similar design philosophy. I ditched the DEUS not because of how it works, but because of the design that so many others love. They put the DEUS in a F75 type package with wired coils including a small one that sell for under $200 and I will snap one up. Until then, not going to happen.

I am not saying the wireless way is not better. I am not saying it is better either. It is just a basic issue in detector design where we all have to agree to disagree. It is a case of whatever floats your boat.


I guess you can say I am in the Dave Johnson camp. From [www.tekneticst2.com]


DS: "Crystal ball" time… if you had to take an educated guess, what do you think hobby detecting hardware will be looking like 10 years from now? (Operational and physical)

Dave Johnson: "Everything will look like a T2/F75 clone. Just kidding! Actually, I do expect machines to show up on the market looking a lot like the T2/F75. But, there will always be a lot of variety in what machines look like and how they're designed to be used. Some machines 10 years from now will probably look about the same as they do today. The Tesoro Micromax is such a good basic mechanical design that it or something similar will still be around 10 years from now."







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2014 08:57PM by Steve Herschbach.

Give me wired, drop in batteries..... KISS

Tom in SC

I think the deus is a great machine but what happens when the batteries die? im a wired aa batteries guy

All about preference, I just kinda take em for what they are. If I don't like em on to the chopping block. I mean classifieds!

One of the reasons I sold the Deus was all the charging, control, coil and headphones.
I kept the ctx and yes I do charge the battery but I also keep the battery pack handy. Very seldom use the wireless module, prefer to plug and go.

I prefer 4 AAs and like that my TRX uses AAs also.

I like simple and worry free.

Yap I'm older than some of you guys and am proud to see ever birthday that comes along.

Pac Man

Didn't sell the Deus because of the charging, sold it because of those small buttons.
At the time I had my Deus I also ran an X-terra 705, every button press it gave me a tone. So you know you made a positive input.
That is real handy when the weather get's cold and your wearing gloves.

And couldn't understand why the didn't engineer a volume control on the remote and have it use some MP3 earbuds of your choice??
Nobody who enjoys using the Deus looks at the display any way :-)

The back-up battery for the Deus was the 12V vehicle output.

The back-up battery for my detectors these days is a fresh-pack of AA's and a few 9V's or some C-cells.
When running the Excal, CTX I always carry my spare battery pack.

So I guess I'm a wired guy.

HH
Johnb

I run rechargeable batteries in all my detectors so charging is not the issue. It is that even my CTX and V3i can also use regular AA batteries if I wish. And all my detectors and TRX pinpointer can share the same battery and charger systems. The only oddball detector I have right now is the SDC 2300 and how it ended up running off C cells will always be a mystery. My ATX? Eight AA batteries. It is having multiple proprietary charging systems that gets to be a pain.

scoopjohnb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Didn't sell the Deus because of the charging, sold
> it because of those small buttons.
> At the time I had my Deus I also ran an X-terra
> 705, every button press it gave me a tone. So you
> know you made a positive input.
> That is real handy when the weather get's cold and
> your wearing gloves.


I don't understand why XP didn't feel the need to upgrade these buttons (maybe they produced a tone of it). It would be the first thing I would change. I can only imagine that someone is making decisions, who is not metal detecting. The designers who are sitting at their computers are only concern about the look. But they should have beta testers who tell them that something simply doesn't work in the field! Such things are driving me crazy. I don't get it, how someone can accept buttons like this on such an expensive machine. Buttons are like a bridge between the user and the machine. If the feeling is not right...
I hate products that are designed by people who actually don't use them.

Variety rules and competition drives innovation so let the games continue! I want to find the best combination of machines for what and how I hunt and don't really care what anyone else swings other than to see if I can learn from them. I welcome Nokta and Makro to add flavor to the mix!

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

Hard to argue with great ergonomics and simplicity. I AM a fan of what works..and am not particularly brand loyal, but just have a preference for a light, classic configuration.
The F75 platform works, gets stellar battery life, and is easy to use.
Funny though, first time I saw a Tek out in the field (oddly enough it was Mike Scott at a hunt we both attended in Conn) I thought to my self "God what an ugly machine". I was using a Shadow X5 at the time. Little did I know that was the beginning of a love affair that would last to the present day.
I HAVE detected along side of Deus users, and they did very very well, but no better than I did with my trusty LTD. That may have just been a quirk, and its possible that my tune will change in the future, but for now I'll stick with what I know and like. I have a fairly huge arsenal, (waaaaay to many machines) from high end Minelabs to lowly modified IDX's, and love every one of them, but my go to machine for now to the foreseeable future is the LTD.

Awfully trivial thing to fabricate a "divide" over.
Do you have a fax machine? Ever use it anymore? Did you buy it for yourself or just to get a fax from someone else. The only one to buy a fax machine for THEMSELVES was the guy that bought the first one.
Progress marches on either over or through you but seldom around. You may call it digress.
20 years from now the environmentalists will have driven today's battery technology to the same dump as the incandescent light bulb and all batteries will be lithium or a derivative thereof and have only solar charging capabilities---then they will tax sunshine.

If the only things allowed on forums were lifes really important things - there would be no metal detecting forums.

Steve...as far as design, you know what I like best about the Deus?? The shafts! I love how fast,simple and easy it is to adjust them. That is a design I wish everyone would do. I also like the wireless coil...no cable to spin around the poles,or get caught on brush. The wireless headphones...whatever,I have the ws5 and they are to loose. wish it had a 1/4"jack ...I plan on trying my grey ghost and bose...but keep forgetting to buy a 1/8" adapter. Ray

All I want is a detector that cuts through the iron and finds targets...I don't care about wireless or wired as long as it works we are seeing some new units come out. I think a lot of the US is realizing that they are behind and have lost a good part of the market share.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

What wireless gets you:



What wired gets you:

The wired coil is fine by me. Actual preferred since I would rather all machines be waterproof (or at least resistant) and you need a wire anyhow Ifts the coil is going to go under water. I do however want the option of wireless headphones as that is where the wired design bothers me. The racer is sounding like the machine for me and I am hoping it is at least water resistant where it can just be sprayed off after use...

Well Steve, I guess the electric car/truck and probably hybrid is NOT in your driveway. lol
Seriously, I can see advantages and disadvantages to powering detectors in either of the ways. The lithium are better in cold temps. Are smaller and lighter than their NiMH counterpart with like current rating. They hold charge longer. Have more full charge cycles meaning longer life. There are many pre-charged packs available now to recharge LiPro batteries in things like metal detectors, cell phones and I pads, etc. The NiMH are commonplace batteries and chargers are cheap, but aren't are as environmentally friendly.
I remember back in the 80s when fuel injection hit the Jap autos. There were many who were afraid of them. They were already distrusting of Jap autos even before the fuel injection. What happened? The ole US auto industry got in the game. Where are we today? EFI
Remember when LCD and LED watches came out. Seems like I saw my first LED watch in 1975 and LCD watch in 1977. Boy they were the thing for the younger crowd if they could afford them. Memory serves me right the LED was around $35 and the LCD was around $89. The old timers were afraid of them. Give them a wind up watch and they were satisfied. Where are we today??
Remember the microwave. Boy they were expensive. And many were worried about things like radiation, and effects on pacemakers. Seems like the going price back when was $800-$1000. Now they are cheap. Wonder how many homes today don't have one?
Electric autos are moving ever closer to the forefront. When first introduced people again were doubting their capabilities. Battery technology has since improved and people are moving more towards every year. Prius are common even here in backwoods TN.
Now back to the LiPros and metal detectors. It won't be much longer until all flagship models both VLF and PI will all be cordless headsets. Guess what will be powering them??
And this battery operated coil(s) XP makes. Pure stroke of genius IMO. Sure their costly, but microwaves and state of the art watches were too at one time.
It won't be long until you probably see AA size LiPros with same voltage ratings but way higher current capacity. And chargers to charge them.
The train is fast a moving. If one fails to climb aboard, oh well.... Just make sure you have your trusty metal detector with you and an ample supply of energy to power it and your cell phone. This way you can detect a while,when you tire, you can call the wife and tell her you missed the train............



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2014 03:48AM by tnsharpshooter.

Let me guess Steve...your not a Deus fan,lol.

I love how the DEUS works. I took to it instantly and found it easy to run and quite effective. It is a great circuit design, ground breaking even. I would just prefer it in another housing - can't make it any plainer than that.

I generally get what I want eventually. It may take years but I bitch and whine and wheedle and pressure any way I can, and sooner or later I will get it. There are actually people listening, it just takes forever to get results sometimes, but things are getting ready to speed up considerably.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2014 04:41AM by Steve Herschbach.

deathray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve...as far as design, you know what I like
> best about the Deus?? The shafts! I love how
> fast,simple and easy it is to adjust them. That is
> a design I wish everyone would do. I also like the
> wireless coil...no cable to spin around the
> poles,or get caught on brush. The wireless
> headphones...whatever,I have the ws5 and they are
> to loose. wish it had a 1/4"jack ...I plan on
> trying my grey ghost and bose...but keep
> forgetting to buy a 1/8" adapter. Ray

Ray the problem with the 1/8 adapter is that if you mount the controller on the handle it sticks down a ways and once you plug in your headphones it is even worse.
What I did was buy a 1/8 extension.Shortest I could find was 3ft.but it is so small I taped it to the handle and then wrapped it around the shaft between the handle and arm cuff leaving about 2" sticking out to plug my headphones into. I prefer the headphones plugged to the rear of the arm cuff like the F75 and CTX anyway so it worked out ok. Still have the small male end sticking down and if you have large hands it will be touching your hand but not as bad.

As info.

I don't think I still have the extension but I will look. If so your welcome to it.

Pacman

Xp should have made a solid coil to eliminate all woods snagging...or used the f75 5x10 coil and ad a scope velcro wrap or treestand velcro wrap around your lower shaft to hide exposed coil wire..easy fix..it ads no weight to detector and they come in 10"-36" sections to hide the wire all the way to display..no more snags i like running AA batteries to power everything..

deathray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve...as far as design, you know what I like
> best about the Deus?? The shafts! I love how
> fast,simple and easy it is to adjust them. That is
> a design I wish everyone would do. I also like the
> wireless coil...no cable to spin around the
> poles,or get caught on brush. The wireless
> headphones...whatever,I have the ws5 and they are
> to loose. wish it had a 1/4"jack ...I plan on
> trying my grey ghost and bose...but keep
> forgetting to buy a 1/8" adapter. Ray

Radio Shack , yes they still exist , has a volume control that's about 8" long with 1/8" plugs that the male end is at a 90 degree. It barely sticks down from the controller at all and you can attach it to the handle below your wrist and then use your adapter to use your 1/4 plugged headphones. I think that produces the best tones the Deus has to offer.

Thanks Shoveler! Hmmmm...where yo find a radio shack.Ill have to google that.

Sorry, Steve, I don't see the two camps/divide thing. I own both (F75SE2 and Deus) and like them both. My first choice between them was to buy the F75SE about a year ago. Couldn't get the Deus out of my head and bought it in September. The battery/charger system on the Deus was one of my reasons for choosing the F75 with its "install 4 AAs and go" power source. I love wireless headphones and think ALL detectors should offer them as an option! We all want the magic pill. That detector that is going to be a game changer for us. When some find that the F75 or the Deus is not it, they don't like them anymore. (I'm not saying there are no legitimate gripes about design, features, and performance. Certainly there are.) That's fine. Everyone swinging a detector should swing the ones they like most and are happiest with. Is that a divide? NO! It's personal preference and choice. Nothing more or less. I've never owned a Minelab (for example). Nothing against them, but I look at the designs, weight, and battery modules and think, nah, not for me. I'm not gonna talk down Minelabs just because I think it's not the right machine for me. There are many, many Minelab users and enthusiasts. Is it a divide? Is it two camps, Minelab and Other? Not at all. Neither is Deus and Other.

Truth is, if a company waited for the development of a detector that would please all of us, and perhaps some are <G>, that detector will never come.

I'm still waiting for the lightweight, waterproof Nautilus with true VDI and wireless headphones!!!

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

I am not trying to talk the DEUS down or the F75 up or create a divide where none exists. It is a forum and it was a post designed to elicit opinions, that is all. I think it is important that my opinion is expressed so metal detector designers understand what I want. I am quite vocal about it on many fronts, publically and privately. There are times I am off base. More often than not I spot things the manufacturers find of value. Sometimes after the fact, but then at least I get to say I told you so.

Steve Herschbach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not trying to talk the DEUS down or the F75
> up

I realize that.

or create a divide where none exists. It is a
> forum and it was a post designed to elicit
> opinions, that is all.

It worked. You got mine!

I think it is important
> that my opinion is expressed so metal detector
> designers understand what I want.

I want a lightweight, waterproof Nautilus with true VDI and wireless headphones!
Or did I already mention that?
Oh, and with great balance and usability.

I am quite vocal
> about it on many fronts, publically and privately.
> There are times I am off base. More often than not
> I spot things the manufacturers find of value.
> Sometimes after the fact, but then at least I get
> to say I told you so.

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

I dont care for wireless coils, man - you need a stick to swing it anyway.

And they are absolutely no good whatsoever under water. They only transmit through air.

If I was a detector designer i would have tried plug in coils instead. A contact on the end of the stick and one on the coil with a waterproof screw on connection. Wires gone !

This mean that the coil will have a short lowershaft permanently attached to it and will be delivered with one as standard instead of the wire.

You guys are missing the point. Both Deus and Minelab realize that processing the received target signal AT THE COIL significantly improves target sensitivity and resolution. The Deus sends out the information from the coil to the control head wirelessly while the CTX3030 essentially uses its cable to send power and receive data from the coil. I'm sure that most detector manufacturers realize this but are hesitant to implement because of the large costs involved with electronics embedded in coils. I predict that they will come around and you will see new machines with EXPENSIVE coils. Not to mention the howling of users regarding the increased prices.

OldandBold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont care for wireless coils, man - you need a
> stick to swing it anyway.
>
> And they are absolutely no good whatsoever under
> water. They only transmit through air.
>
> If I was a detector designer i would have tried
> plug in coils instead. A contact on the end of the
> stick and one on the coil with a waterproof screw
> on connection. Wires gone !
>
> This mean that the coil will have a short
> lowershaft permanently attached to it and will be
> delivered with one as standard instead of the
> wire.


Bingo!

I keep a lower shaft on most all my coils for easy swaps. Minelab got it kind of right with the CTX and Garrett with the ATX except they made it way too expensive and way too hard. A short rod with coil plug on end should not weigh much or cost much if done right. A telescoping rod would plug into detector and coil plug into it, so a three piece design, and keeps the coil part cheap enough to include with the coils.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2014 04:04PM by Steve Herschbach.

That's why some guys drive a red chevy and some a blue ford....and so many detector companies exist. Actually feel the powers to be may read the forums and somewhere along the way a light will go on to one of the suggestions....