How many hours does it take to master a detector?

I am wondering how long it takes to master a detector where you know it like the back of your hand? I have been using the same detector a Garrett AT-Gold for over 200 hours and I'm still learning it's language and it amazes me on almost every hunt that I learn something new about it's performance. I would love to try another machine out but I'm afraid I won't be as happy as I am with the AT-Gold. I see people on a lot of these forums changing out detectors on a regular basis or even better they have 10-20 machines how on this earth they can remember how to operate each one them and remember each ones nuances is beyond my imagination. And I know that in the short amount of time they own these machines there's no way possible they could have learned the machines capabilities. I know after the 200+ hours on the AT-Gold I find it hard to even think about remembering it and 10-20 more machines capabilities.

Some people just pick up on things faster than other people. Not every person learns the same or the same speed. I get to train a lot of new people at my job to run machines, and some people you only have to show them one time how to do something with the menu on machines...and some people have to write everything down step by step and then have to rely on their notes for quite a while. A great example...several months ago I was training a guy that I showed how to do this one machine's setup. I showed it to him once as I done the setup. He didn't take a single note. Just watched and nodded his head when I would show him each step. The next time, he wanted to try it on his own. He done it without a single error and I never had to show him again. He was like that on everything I showed him. He picked up on everything super fast. The next person that came along is the one I am currently training. She has been with us about a month now. I showed her how to do the setup on the same machine as the previous guy...and she wrote everything down step by step. As of yesterday...she would still have to come flag me down and ask for help...she is still using her notes.

It's the same way with anything...detectors included. I'm really quick on learning detectors and getting a really good feel for them in a quick amount of time. Some of them may set me back a little...like the Whites DFX or V3i....where you have a ton of settings you can do to make the detector behave differently. But the others....pretty straight forward.

The learning curve would be easier on some machines if the manufacturers provided a good user manual. An example of an awful manual is XP's GMP / GMAXX2 one. Some paragraphs aren't even translated from French, this probably explains the popularity of after-market instruction DVD's etc for this machine (eg. the Norfolk Wolf ones).

So much depends on the individual and of course the complexity of the unit in question so no stock answer...I know with some of the units I had it took months so those fellows that buy and try for a week or two and are on classifieds are either into trying the next new unit or exceptional with a learning period.
PS: having a local who is learned on a particular unit and is willing to share can cut down on the learning period. Kudos to the forum members that add so much relative learning periods....not like the old days where it was trial and error..

If the machine has a lot to offer as far as progrmaing like the Dues I would say about 2 months if you understand what it is telling you

LowBoy

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If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Well, I can actually provide some scientific results on this one. I ran a "pay-to-mine" operation in Alaska where a dozen people a week visited my mine to metal detect for gold. Many had never metal detected before and we had to provide many with a detector. The bottom line is that most, by the end of 5-6 10 hour days of detecting were really only just starting to get a decent handle on it. Time and time again I saw that people who stayed two weeks had far better results in the second week than the first. So I would say a rank novice needs at least 50 hours to get some basic proficiency (you would not believe how hard it is to get people to keep the coil near the ground!) and another 50 hours to become pretty good.

An old pro you can hand a detector and they may be proficient within hours. On another level though to become "one" with a detector can take months if not years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2015 04:46PM by Steve Herschbach.

Hi,,,,It is written that it usually takes approximately 50 hours to become acquainted with a machine....But to become proficient with a machine takes many,many hours.....I totally agree with the point that you made on, there's no way possible they could have learned the machines full capabilities in just a few sessions,,,,it just can't be done....It's all smoke & mirrors and they are only fooling themselves if they think they can learn a machines full potential in a such a short time....Actually a true judgment call on one or a review should not even be made until you have at least 500 to 1000 hours on one, if it makes it that far....Of course there is an exception to this,like bad ergonomics,no depth,bad discrimination ,terrible audio etc....These things are obvious right from get go and a judgment call can be made right away (this machines not for me)....You can voice your opinion right away but it should be done with caution and tell how many hours of use you have on one and what you found out so far,but don't come off like a master....I have been detecting for many,many decades and usually hunt from 4 to 10 hours a day rain or shine....I have owned an AT since day one and have logged thousands of hours use on one under various conditions & scenarios....I have actually worn out a couple of hand and arm rest during this time not to mention the unbelievable wear on my digging knives....My hands are riddled with big calluses....I have actually pondered the thought of writing a book on the operation of the AT with some secrets thrown in there for good measure .....With all the hours I have on one I can unequivocally honestly say I have not Mastered it and probably never will.....JJ


PS: I'm going to mix up machines this year and try some of my other ones more

There is an universal rule, applicable to any human activity, allowing to achive mastery in any field: 10'000 hours of practice.
Guaranteed.
:-)

Respectfully disagree there JJ. Nobody is only fooling themselves and certainly not smoke and mirrors. Some people are just FAST at learning new things. That's why some people get advanced placement in school, why some people just excel at everything that takes other people longer to do. If you work in a factory where you've been a veteran for many years, you see evidence of this quite a bit.

Heck, you can give a pre teen a smart phone and they will blow your mind at what they can do with one. Where as it takes some people quite a while to even figure out how to send a text message. My dad can take a stock engine out of a Mustang and rebuild everything on it, super charge it, put it back in, and have it tuned to perfection in a very short amount of time. But he has to call me to come help him post a picture to a forum or order car parts online. He's one of those guys that can just listen to a car run and know what needs tweaked on it. Me on the other hand....I am doing good to change my oil, and small little jobs like that. But I can troubleshoot and program a 6 axis robot. Even after it has crashed and is way off...I can reteach the pickup positions, unload positions, etc. My mind handles electronic, robotic, and computer stuff better I guess. I can watch a robot or machine running and know what needs tweaked on it...just like dad does with the cars.

Same goes with detectors....detectors aren't exactly a 6 axis robot or CNC machine. They have an on/off switch and a few basic adjustments. You don't need a degree to figure one of them out.

Hi,,,I Respectfully disagree there Daniel..LoL...Again like always I'm probably being misunderstood...Here's a crude hypothetical example: today my soil has a moisture content of 35% yesterday it was at 23% my machine will not respond like it did yesterday because of the difference in the moisture content....How on earth can anyone learn these variable audio nuances in a short time....I am a very,very fast learner but I would really be depriving myself of anymore future education or learning ability of a new machine with the mindset that I know it all....I think I'm more successful than most at a lot of things mainly because I never stop learning....Heck I know I'm not lucky, it takes skill,perseverance,knowledge etc. to consistently pull coins from certain areas....If I knew it all then what's the purpose in life? it probably would be boring....JJ

Your absolutely right Jimmy. IMHO it can possibly take years to fully master any machine, even if one is a quick learner and proficient at what he/she does.
The problem is, we tend to get locked into what we KNOW, and don't push our limits till we are forced out of our local environment.
A good example of this is the Digging in Va hunts. I know many a guy that talked smack before hunting in that hot dirt about how good they would do, till they actually got there and experienced it for themselves. Even with a pulse machine its at times very very challenging. They quickly changed their collective tunes, and were forced to adapt, and in the process learned from it.
I hunt lots of different places with lots of different conditions, and am forced to experiment when the going gets tough.
A possible exception to this might be a guy like Tom D that literally spends hours and hours testing a machines capabilities, but even then (with all due respect to Tom), his findings are sometimes not quite what I find HERE, due to the different conditions.
Truth is, for anyone to truly master any machine means hours upon hours in the field under varying conditions.
Ever wonder how the guy that's used and owned ONE machine for the last 25 years can go out and literally spank most of the other guys with the latest and greatest?? Now HE has mastered his machine, and he didn't do it in a month!! I think one can get a general "feel " for any machine in a fairly short time if they have the ability to do so (as Daniel said, some are quicker than others) but to truly master it takes a pretty dang long time.....




jimmyjiver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi,,,I Respectfully disagree there
> Daniel..LoL...Again like always I'm probably being
> misunderstood...Here's a crude hypothetical
> example: today my soil has a moisture content of
> 35% yesterday it was at 23% my machine will not
> respond like it did yesterday because of the
> difference in the moisture content....How on earth
> can anyone learn these variable audio nuances in a
> short time....I am a very,very fast learner but I
> would really be depriving myself of anymore future
> education or learning ability of a new machine
> with the mindset that I know it all....I think I'm
> more successful than most at a lot of things
> mainly because I never stop learning....Heck I
> know I'm not lucky, it takes
> skill,perseverance,knowledge etc. to consistently
> pull coins from certain areas....If I knew it all
> then what's the purpose in life? it probably would
> be boring....JJ

Life is boring. That's why we have hobbies to occupy ourselves and to pass the time. And why I have more than one hobby going at any given time. I believe in keeping active and busy. Or else you just give up and die.

I, however, believe that certain people excel at certain things and make them on a level far and beyond what the average person is capable of. No matter how many hours they log into it. I could have 10,000 hours of practice or even 100,000 hours of practice to play basketball, but I know I would never reach the level of dunking a ball like Michael Jordan could do back in the 90s. I could take up golf and put in my time in learning the game, and I could never be on the level of Phil Mickelson or Tiger Woods. Even if I dedicated the rest of my life to it.

As some of you know, I left a lot of my hobbies on hold as I pursued my archery shooting the last few years. It was a newer hobby to me and one I was eager to learn and gave it a good go. There are people involved in archery competition that have a wide range of skill set and time involved in the hobby. Some have been shooting a bow for over 40 years. Some, like me, are newer to the sport but done extremely well in shooting against the veterans. In my adventures, I encountered a young lady name Kayla. Kayla is in her early 20s. And just started archery not long ago. She came onto the scene of national level tournaments this past year, shooting against other ladies that had many YEARS of experience and hours logged in for bow shooting. Kayla dominated. She didn't just place high in one shoot. She dominated 2014. She won about everything there was to win in 2014 and won shooter of the year. Heck she can outshoot me by a long shot, and if you compare her scores to the men's division that shot the same courses as she did, she would have beat most all of them too. She has near 20/10 vision...without correction. Where as I have corrected vision that is only 20/20 or there abouts. She can simply see things that I can't see. I need the aid of binoculars to see small scoring rings at 40-50 yards. She can see them with her eyes from that distance without binoculars and they appear to be larger to her than they are to me. So it just simply makes it easier for her to see something and to aim at it, and thus hit it. She is a force to be reckoned with and is well on her way to Pro status.

I believe anybody with good hearing and understanding of electronics/metal detectors and controls, can be pretty through in figuring out a metal detector and what it can and cannot do. IMO...people are guilty of trying to over complicate the most simple of things. 2+2 is 4 and I don't need a whole formula or equation showing how I ended up with that answer. I don't need to know how many foot pounds of pressure it takes to press the gas pedal on my truck to make it go 70 MPH either.

What really needs to be asked is how many hours does it take a person to KNOW he has the wrong machine for the task he's doing...

Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2015 06:45PM by Keith Southern.

LoL

I say = "it depends on the person, their experience level, and which machine you're talking about"

I mean - put a novice with no experience whatsoever in the field with a Etrac (or similar) and it could take years

but

put a pro with 30 yrs experience in the field who has a knack of picking up on a machines nuances fairly quick with an easy to learn turn on and go machine and it could be almost instantaneously...

Hence = "just depends"...

If you're looking for an avg. - I'd say 300 to 500 hrs and you should know the machine like the back of your hand no matter which machine it is...

Just my opinion/.02 cents of course ;-)

I know some people who pick things up faster than others, I see it every day. I work with a guy with a high IQ who has the fastest intelligent wit than anybody I ever met. His brain just fires fast.

My son for example, when he was 3 years old, we were sitting at the table in the dining room. We had just opened a Lego set or something similar. The set was where you make working toy trucks and such.

I was studying the pictured and written instructions as they sat on the table. He was sitting on the chair next to me, eyes just above the table top. After a few minutes he said "dad, I can do that". I said " do what son"? He said " I can put that together." What? I said. "I can do that he said." "Yea, right", I said. He was quiet for a minute as I was thinking and studying and fumbling with the parts. Again he said " I can do it dad". I said "Really, well here ya go lad" and I slid the whole shebang of parts and instructions in front of him.

He stood up in the chair and looked at the drawings and proceeded to put this truck together with his little fingers. My eyes widened and I yelled into the kitchen "Hon come here and see this" She came in and we watched the boy put this tow truck together, in amazement... and it worked when he was finished.... I'll never forget it.

I read the 10,000 hours link and I will agree, it does take practice for most of us to master something. But some are gifted naturals and they can excel in certain areas, it clicks for them.

I would say it really depends... The ETrac, a good year. Compadre as soon as you turn it on. It really depends on what kind of ground you have to hunt on. If you are in trash, who knows.

Some good discussion here with varying points. This word master to me is a relative term. Sure one could/can think they have mastered their detector. Funny thing is though we can't see what's under the surface of the ground, hence we can't see what we're missing. Sure there are people who take to performing many different tasks faster than others. We are all different. I wonder if these so called masters or highly experienced detectorists have done this. After they thought they had their detector operation/settings down to a science, and then used or witnessed another (different) detector making finds their detector wouldn't see, In further investigations and trial and error found the "corrrect" setting to detect the "escaping finds". Daniel has mentioned doing this with MXT vs F75 hunting in real bad ground. Look at operator's manuals. The manual for my F75SE doesn't mention using disc 5,6, or 7 and one tone as an alternative to unmask in carpets of nails. So if no one told a user they would have to discover on their own. Unlocking a detector's full potential takes a lot of time, some luck, and just the right detecting scenarios. Just think what this forum and others bring to the table. It sure does help me and helps build on lessons already learned when it comes to detecting. I'm with Keith on this one. The original question asked has no real answer. The word proficient is a probably a better term to use versus master. And it seems future detectors are likely to be software upgradeable by various means. And this will lead to a never ending learning process associated with detecting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2015 08:14PM by tnsharpshooter.

Just imagine how much good stuff, really good stuff we would find if all detectors were say a compadre that would go 12 inches and we virtually dug it all if we had the stamina.

Hi,,,hey Daniel yes I agree some people do learn quicker than others & some never learn....Here's something that I bet we can all agree on.....YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID....LoL...Keith my answer on your proposed question is IMHO.....It takes as long as it takes, a machine that was not up to the task one day may be a killer machine the next day....Especially if you had a rain one day or no rain for awhile or the planets are aligned just right and as you become more knowledgeable about the actual proper usage of the machine it starts shining for you...I been there and done that...I had a machine I thought was terrible but I stuck to my guns and ran it because of all the money I had invested in it....So I said to myself run it two weeks then decide on getting rid of it at a loss or keep it , well that's what I did,, after two weeks of running it, things really started to click, I fell head over heels in love with it.... It's like fishing sometimes you can't buy a bite, then for some unexplained reason you can't keep them off your hook....I can't explain it or what kinda magic happens it just happens...Another misconception people have is this: they get a new machine or coil and do really well one day and are lead to believe the machine is really great but in reality they might have done just as well with their old standby....Angles of approach and state of mind plus physical well-being etc. also comes into play in this equation....A machine that works excellent for someone in another state or area may fall flat on it's face in your state or area.... The word master is usually always used pretty loosely....In closing because my little pinky is tired, I will leave you with this thought...A professional is an expert but an expert is not a professional until it is made a profession...JJ

....I had a good grasp of my new MX5 within a week, found a gold ring with it after about 10 hours of use, silver dimes too and just a couple of weeks ago a silver washington quarter. This detector has been easy to set up and get performance from day one. The biggest thing that most people dismiss is LOCATION, I could take a cheap detector into a virgin spot and find stuff. Now it is just too cold to get outside here in Kansas.

Don't think you can put a time frame across the board because what one picks up quick another person may have a longer learning curve to do the same.

Hope I don't hijack or monkey wrench this interesting post but would bet some of the so called " masters " don't even know the all-metal side of their detector? Coming from me a greenhorn jackleg who rarely uses his all-metal, only on the occasional " isolated " sweet sounding target? HH

I don't have the foggiest idea,... but sometimes you just dial in the correct settings :-)

I was a professional CNC operator on a wide variety of machines for 15 years.
It took me several years to really feel at home with the first lathe, just setting up and running it.

Then as time went by, I develloped a simple but effective general method of setting up any machine they threw at me.
I had one guy I just couldn't get to grasp the principle,... the others took various lengths of time.

The last few years of my employment they had me prototyping stuff on a 6 axis machine center.
When I finally had enough and took,over the family business, they struggled for a while and then scrapped the machine.
The machine itself was a prototype with lot's of quirks, bad habits and a non normalized programming language.
I had a lot of bad days at work with that sad piece of engineering.

But working for a boss, you had to hang in there, use what you have and make the best of it.
Sometimes we switch too soon, but it's a hobby and you should enjoy your time out detecting!!

HH
Johnb

Hombre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ....I had a good grasp of my new MX5 within a
> week, found a gold ring with it after about 10
> hours of use, silver dimes too and just a couple
> of weeks ago a silver washington quarter. This
> detector has been easy to set up and get
> performance from day one. The biggest thing that
> most people dismiss is LOCATION, I could take a
> cheap detector into a virgin spot and find stuff.
> Now it is just too cold to get outside here in
> Kansas.


right!.. as in real estate,LOCATION,LOCATION,LOCATION
find stuff with a (B.F.O.).

(h.h.!)
j.t.

There is a lot more than just mastering the machine. There is also conditions..... these can really change and separate the men from the boys. Im obsessive when it comes to something i like..... ive always said.... dont sell a machine until its paid for its self. At that point you have a pretty good handle on it. I beach hunt now with a fairly simple machine that i have 1000s of hours on. I also hunt with a lot of excellent hunter..... each of us has our own style that can produce. So there is no RIGHT or WRONG way ..... but we all refine our tech. by watching and talking with each other.

A metal detector is a metal detector is a metal detector is a metal detector is a metal detector. The only thing that really changes is design intent. They are like wrenches and just like using wrenches, using the right one for the job can make the job efficient and painless, just as using the wrong one can make the job painful and inefficient, and sometimes costly.

It is really easier to use different metal detectors in areas of use where they excel than to try and make a single metal detector function outside of its design intent. Some might call this “mastery”. I call it a small tool box.

The design engineers recognize this and try to build value into their detectors by increasing the power of the feature sets they offer. At the top of this are the Whites programmable units, especially the dual frequency ones, which are designed with the intent of being able to be used in most all situations. Then there are the high end Fisher, Tek, AKA, Minelab type units that offer a selection of algorithms and tone choices to make them more useful in various situations. Below these models the feature sets gradually tighten up and create limitations in their usage. This isn’t bad or good, as again, they are just tools and you select the tool for the job, or, as many of us have done and will do, the best tool we can afford.

One of the reasons I see so much specialized detector requests (spelled ‘niche’) on this forum is that many folks here recognize the “right tool for the job approach” and would prefer to have a larger tool box of specialized tools.

I will include this. There are two things a person can do right away to increase their proficiency with any metal detector. 1) Match their physical sweep speed to the detector’s built in design sweep speed for the ground conditions. 2) Learn how to use the sensitivity control.

HH
Mike

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What really needs to be asked is how many hours
> does it take a person to KNOW he has the wrong
> machine for the task he's doing...
>
> Keith


Keith you have a very good point there it takes me usually one to two hunts to determine if the machine is right or wrong for my style of hunting!!