Air Test....Nokta F.C.

5 inch coil first:


11 inch coil:


And while DI-3 is the quietest mode.......it is much shallower. To gain that extra tone......a large price is paid in depth it seems. All measurements are in inches.....not centimeters. (The machine gives depth readings in centimeters is why I said that)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2015 10:46PM by Kevin B.

Wow. I could live with 2 tones if the small coil can realize 65-75% of that depth in-ground..... Milder soil. Thanks for taking the time to share Kevin

Hi Kevin,,, hey thanks for taking the time to do these tests.....Was there a proper VDI reading and was these two way repeatable hits??? Possible bigger fish to fry later.....JJ

Well I'm wondering what did you find ole man lol. How did you like DI3?

Kevin, some good info. I do have a question and a few of my own observations. The airtest # given for DI3 , were these distances provided being awarded with any tone or just the high tone?? I suspect any tone.
DI2 definitely amps up the FORS unit. This can be seen by sweeping in DI3 and listening to the iron and nonferrous, switch to DI2 and the ground comes alive with the targets giving the VCO shivering tone like the iron/nonferrous is lying on top of the ground.
In a terrible EMI environment the DI3 will mostly likely yield better results.
In heavy trash, nails/iron I suspect DI3 may do better because its harder to overdrive the system. I'm not sure going to DI2 with reduced sensitivity could get you to the same place. (recovery speed differences?)
I haven't seen any mention of this. Are the recovery rates the same for both DI2 nd DI3?? This could maybe shed light on which is possible the best unmasker.
I have seen a comment relaying they thought after getting to a certain level of sensitivity i.e.70 the FORS unit went into some sort of boost operation.
Today I played some more with the small coil.
I can say this based on my limited detecting experience. There is no VLF detector out currently that can see both the percentages of ferrous and nonferrous in the ground like the CORE unit using the small coil. In my mother in laws yard, in which I have killed with several very good detectors. It was amazing at how much nonferrous still exists. And remember I do run Deus units and a f75se. And this goes for iron bits and nails too. You see everyone forgets about them. The Core also sees more nails/iron bits than any other detector.
When even the nails get thick most detectors with small coils won't give tone on as many of them.
Lastly, everyone with a Core should take note of their battery door especially if you decide to run your unit without the environmental cover. Make sure the little ear on the door is recessed all the way to the locked position. Try moving the ear inwards and see if it moves any further. Also this could get moved when hunting in tree limbs/brush hence losing your battery cover.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2015 12:54AM by tnsharpshooter.

I still have the same opinion. The Fors with the small coil is a very good trash and iron hunter. The Fors with the stock coil is an average detector. So those figuring on purchasing a Racer better just shell out the money for the Pro pack. The small coil is what you need.

I'm not sure I would say Core unit is just average with stock coil. This gent Monte is seeing something perhaps special with Core unit with stock/med sized coil. He hasn't released details, just hinted. I feel it may be separation as well for coil size, which is bebeficial. We'll see. To add you reckon Nokta has a F75 model detector with 5 inch coil a looking at its performance, when they designed their small coil of Core unit??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2015 01:45AM by tnsharpshooter.

Monte is a good guy. I sold him a detector once. I read many of his posts through the years trying to learn as much as I can. But for depth I personally believe that there are few better detectors out there. I guess I am the odd man out on not being blown away by the Fors Core and the stock coil. But I can live with it.

Monte is primarily a Whites guy and very knowledgeable with the Mxt, Xlt, and Whites Classics... Although he is an adamant supporter of concentric coils, the core has definitely peaked his interest as he is a ghost town/heavy iron style hunter.. I enjoy his posts and honest reviews.


I'm curious as to the core as being considered 'average' with the 11" coil. 14" on a dime is pretty respectable.That being said, Keith S., wasn't it the Core that was unable to hit the 10" dime in your test garden? Thanks for the air tests.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2015 02:40AM by triplehooked.

Good opbservations on the CoRe..

Teh small coil is the best combo for the unit to be a one upper...


the stock coil sees SMALL stuff at decent depth more so thatn mopst might realize....

the Stock coil on coin sized objects and up at depth is a little less than a F75 in B.P. mode on coins in the ground..but the the stock coil sees stuff smaller than the F75 also at depth...

the CoRe has alot of affinity for small targets...They palced alot of emphasis on Small targets..and most stuff left is small nowadays unless we can get some extreme depth

the small coil takes it to new levels in iron yet in hunted hard sites I have found the small coil sees the smallest of non ferrous targets yet not much on say larger targets if the site has already been done hard with say a World Class unmasker...

The DI2 is a Hyepr gain mode....not a boost mode but hyper gain...its also faster and more blendy in the iron range...

The Affinity to small targets and DI 2 helps to see things in bad dirt well...

Nokat/Makro is going places..

Keith

I think looking at the entire pro package is what one has to do. For the $$$$, a package currently hard to beat. And this large coil, haven't seen much about it at all except Keith did a video showing it separated very well for its size. I think that's where people sometimes get confused. When you hunt in fields i.e using a large coil you usually get you some additional depth, plus if the large coil will separate fairly good it could lend itself a good find or 2 where other big coils may fail.

I went to the yard today where I found the scale off of the Union epaulette piece the other day. Today, I found a ring (brass, evidently as it was turning red and the chrome plating was wearing off. Found a penny. Found another Hardin County, 1919 cattle ear tag made of copper. About the size of a Large Cent and about the same thickness. It was down under a root at around 7 inches. All of my other units had missed these items. I have not really got 'down and dirty' with it yet.
I noticed, that while wearing a thick jacket this morning, I couldn't use the black strap on the arm cuff and the unit was wanting to raise the small coil off the ground unless I really gripped it. But when it finally warmed up, I was able to use the black nylon strap on the arm cuff and that problem was eliminated.
Jury is still out. I have a place to go tomorrow that is a virgin spot. Maybe I can find some good old relics.
On a side note: I tried to create this thread and everytime that I pushed the POST NOW button......I would get the 404 Forbidden message. I re-made the thread. And got the $)$ message again. I had titled the post Fors Core Air Test Results. I changed the title to Nokta F.C. Air Tests and it let me post it!!! Weird anomaly.....but then,......I have been having alot of trouble of this old Dell computer. I am running the Ubuntu Operating System. I can never get full updates.....only partial. Happy Digging!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2015 02:48AM by Kevin B.

Kevin, I never use the strap. I just grab and go. The unit does settle in nice when swinging. Also, this needs to be stated. I'll bet you if I buried a silver dollar 1 inch under the ground and you swung the Core unit over it, it would overload and you would think it's big iron and keep walking. Folks need to remember to raise the coil a little bit when the get an overload and see if they get say the iron tone.

Its some sort of word its blocking Ive found Kevin...

I get that alot on this forum...FORBIDDEN...

change a word around and it works...

Keith

I am curious as to what you think compared to the deus you had Kevin.. I am trying to decide if I want to splurge for another deus(which I like very much) or try the new racer(assuming its like the core)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2015 01:40PM by bigboar.

I would wait for Racer reviews. They are right around the corner. I personally believe that the Deus would match up very well if a smaller coil was made. I heard rumors and then nothing. But a new Deus coil will be at least 350.00 also. So what do I know?

Kevin and Sharpshooter, thanks for your comments regarding the CoRe. I'm looking forward to your future updates on this interesting machine.

Duke

All this talk about small coils...Fors CoRe needs a small coil to be a Deus/F75/insert your flavor here beater. Deus needs to offer a small coil. Etcetera.
What I am not seeing, since the F75/T2 upgrade, is anyone pairing them with the small coil (5") and comparing that duo to the Deus, Fors CoRe, or anything else.

How about it, has anyone here paired the upgrades with the 5" coil and compared it, air or in-ground, to the Deus, Fors CoRe, or anything else for depth and/or separation?

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

Yes, Keith has posted some video comparing updated F75,and T2 with Core unit all with small coils attached.
Here is one video, there are more. [www.youtube.com]

I forgot to address the questions and as I type this, I cannot exactly recall them. Please feel free to PM me and I will answer any that I can. But please remember that I'm just a one day user. Two day user after today.

There are good targets where you have pounded to death with other detectors. This machine will take you into another realm of good stuff that you have not seen yet that are apparently masked for one reason or another.

I personally think that if a person grabbed any fast recovery machine and coupled it with a small coil, they would be able to pick out a lot of good stuff in trash. Heck, from what I'm seeing, it's not just picking out good stuff from trash...there's a lot of trash being dug to get to the keepers. Or at least what I call trash. Heck I don't even keep clad coins. They go in my trash bag. It's just an electronic device guys...it's not a magic "I dream of Jeannie" that can bob her head and make pulltabs into diamond rings and zincolns into indian head cents.

When the honey moon is over, this is just gonna be another detector or tool in the box.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I personally think that if a person grabbed any
> fast recovery machine and coupled it with a small
> coil, they would be able to pick out a lot of good
> stuff in trash. Heck, from what I'm seeing, it's
> not just picking out good stuff from
> trash...there's a lot of trash being dug to get to
> the keepers. Or at least what I call trash. Heck I
> don't even keep clad coins. They go in my trash
> bag. It's just an electronic device guys...it's
> not a magic "I dream of Jeannie" that can bob her
> head and make pulltabs into diamond rings and
> zincolns into indian head cents.
>
> When the honey moon is over, this is just gonna be
> another detector or tool in the box.

Bingo!

I have run the new F75 with 5" DD and FORS with 4.7" x 5.2" DD together for four days now, cross checking found targets. Ground is heavily laden with magnetite, 5-6 bars on F75, GB85. Littered with rusted nails, wire, and other ferrous stuff. I am pulling a pile of coins, lots of wheaties, a few silver. I use one detector, mark four targets, check with other detector, dig. Then switch detectors, repeat. After four days at this location I can not discern any real difference between the two on found coin targets. The FORS does however have a clear edge on smaller targets. That could be both good or bad depending on what you are doing.

>
> Bingo!
>
> I have run the new F75 with 5" DD and FORS with
> 4.7" x 5.2" DD together for four days now, cross
> checking found targets. Ground is heavily laden
> with magnetite, 5-6 bars on F75, GB85. Littered
> with rusted nails, wire, and other ferrous stuff.
> I am pulling a pile of coins, lots of wheaties, a
> few silver. I use one detector, mark four
> targets, check with other detector, dig. Then
> switch detectors, repeat. After four days at this
> location I can not discern any real difference
> between the two on found coin targets. The FORS
> does however have a clear edge on smaller targets.
> That could be both good or bad depending on what
> you are doing.


Steve, thanks for the honest report. I've been following these threads wondering if the 75/t2 or even the G2/gbp outfitted with their respective 5" coils would fare VS the new kid on the block. if someone were to perform this same type of test with the g2/gbp with 5", we'll be cookin' with fat ;-)

Btw what mode on the 75 were you running? Thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2015 05:04PM by silversurfer.

Be good to see that on video like I did with the Berkut 5, the Core is a good machine and the Pro pack really gives you a great chance for full coverage on a site over time.

Mostly DE though I have been experimenting. My conditions are not anywhere near normal. Stick a magnet in the dirt, up comes a lump of magnetite. The ground creates a condition I am hearby calling "magnetite masking". Magnetite is very pure magnetic iron ore. Imagine grinding up a magnet and burying stuff in it. BP is slightly more prone to magnetite masking it seems than DE.

Long story short the ground hates large coils. Read large as meaning stock coils. All they do is see way more magnetite and basically shut down unless you run in all metal. The larger coil sees so much magnetite versus a shallow coin that even shallow coins are identified as ferrous. I had no joy here with the DEUS any more than any other stock coil unit which is why I sold it. Small coils are my only salvation. They see less ground and more coin and so can get a coin at up to maybe 5 inches. That is near double what the stock coils get.

People have detected this ground for decades and have left me piles of relatively shallow coins. Any normal person running a normal machine in a normal fashion would just not know they are there. They read ferrous. So that all said take everything I am reporting with a huge grain of salt because I may as well be on Mars detecting compared to what most people are doing. That is why air tests mean so little to me. The air test difference between DI2 and DI3 being reported here barely exists in my ground. It is also why I rarely report actual ground depths because what I see is so far different and less that what most people see.

Having run the Gold Bug Pro a lot I would expect the results with the 5" round DD to be a closer match for the FORS than the F75. The FORS seems abnormally hot on low conductors than what it's frequency would imply. My ultimate motivation is not coin detecting it is nugget detecting, and in the FORS I am seeing a sort of melding of the F75 and Gold Bug Pro. It falls right in between the two for performance and features for my purposes. I let the Gold Bug Pro and then F19 go both for being just a bit more feature limited than I wanted. The F75 I kept for the features even though it was a bit more low conductor performance limited than I wanted. The FORS is hitting the middle ground, and man oh man am I splitting hairs here with all three. Right now I still lean F75 for coin detecting by virtue of the extra tone schemes, I would grab FORS first for nugget detecting.

Needless to say I am in this for myself. If any of that helps anyone great but in the end I am just riffing on what is working for me. That it no way means any machine is better than another for anyone else. I really said more than I meant to say but once you get me going.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2015 06:03PM by Steve Herschbach.

Ziggy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Be good to see that on video like I did with the
> Berkut 5, the Core is a good machine and the Pro
> pack really gives you a great chance for full
> coverage on a site over time.

Yeah I agree. Problem is what I am doing is enough of a pain in the butt already and the fact is I am not trying to document it or prove anything to anyone but myself. 90% of my testing goes unreported. It just ends up deciding what detectors I keep or use for a particular task or filtering though in opinions I may express. I do not watch detector comparison videos myself. I do the tests myself as so little of what I ever see in videos is applicable to me.

Steve, tfti. That soils sounds pretty rough. The soil around here in sw mi can be quite variable, but nothing nearly that bad. I'm mostly relic hunting with a little coin shooting. Run a deus mostly, and occasionally a G2 with small coil where the iron gets thick. It works for me, but I'm not opposed to upgrading if a unit brings something different or better to the table.
Been looking forward to some reports of a core head to head vs g2/gbp with the small coils. May even try one of those quiet 75's.... I like the raw power of those puppies

Daniel another timely report on how the new 75 is doing .Many thanks for your efforts.

I buy a new detector because I'm bored.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2015 11:19PM by Kevin B.