MAKRO RACER - ACCESSORIES PRICE LIST

Hello all...many customers are inquiring about the accessory prices. Below is the list:

Racer Metal Detector Accessories Manufacturer’s Suggested Resale Price
RC13 - DD Search Coil - (13cmx12cm - 5''X4.5'') $109.00
RC26 - DD Search Coil - (26cmx14cm - 10''x5.5'') $139.00
RC29 - DD Search Coil - (29cmx18.5cm - 11''x7'') $159.00
RC40 - DD Search Coil - (40cmx33.5cm - 15.5''X13'') $249.00
RC13 - Search Coil Cover $9.00
RC26 - Search Coil Cover $15.00
RC29 - Search Coil Cover $19.00
RC40 - Search Coil Cover $29.00
Carrying Bag $49.00
Rain Covers (Set of 2) $29.00
Treasure Pouch $9.00
Charging Kit (AC & Car Charger 4 x AA Rechargeable Batteries) $49.00
Cap with Official Makro Logo $15.00
T-Shirt with Official Makro Logo $15.00
Koos Headphone - KPH7 $20.00
Philips SHB7000 Bluetooth Headphones and Dongle $179.00
Bluetooth Dongle Only (BT module) $99.00
Middle Rod $32.00
Lower Rod $16.00
Armrest $28.00

Thanks for the MSRP pricing of accessories! You guys rock!

Thank you for this information.-----When will these accessory items be available?------Also, is coil covers included for the two coils in the Racer Pro pack?

There are numerous reports of a lag time problem, where the target signal is heard late relative to the coil sweep, in various detectorists' efforts to convert their machines to wireless headphones.

Does Makro make some provision in their technology/manufacture to eliminate this lag problem with this specific dongle/headphone set?
If there is a known lag time experienced, has it been quantified, and what is it?

Thanks.

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

was curious so here are the profiles I found supported by the Phillips headphones...

Bluetooth profiles:
A2DP
AVRCP
HFP
HSP

would like to know which of these is supported by the dongle? who makes the dongle?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2015 06:51PM by canslawhero.

I duckduckgo-ed (similar to google without the spying) the headphone set and downloaded the info sheet. Researched the profiles, too, but no mention either place regarding lag time, or lack thereof.

To offer wireless headphones, is one thing. To incorporate wireless technology into the product is another thing altogether. Hopefully, they have done the latter?

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

I seen on one forum that there was no lag time with the headphones. Don,t know what fourm i was on at the time. If i can find it i will post it. There is a big defferance in detectors that are built to use wireless and a detector after though wireless added.

reading a bit more on this online it seems the key to 'no lag' is the transmitters codec. something like 'apt-x low latency' is very fast but it's proprietary and would require the headphones to support it also and I don't believe the Phillips have it. so Dilek, if you could ask your engineers what codec the transmitter uses I'd appreciate it...and how they achieve no-lag with these headphones...

I have used RF and Bluetooth headsets while swing a flying saucer inches from the ground - do not remember any noticeable delay - may be if I was going light speed when swing my saucer - but at my normal speed no issue - I listen to tv with Bluetooth - lip and sound seem to be in sync - and trust me I notice when they are not. Maybe an over rated issue.

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

I decided to order this small transmitter from amazon.ca (I can return it if I'm not satisfied): "Avantree Priva Bluetooth Wireless Multipoint Audio Transmitter with aptX Low Latency Codec".

I have an older pair of Sennheiser BT headphones (PX 210) that uses the apt-X codec. Instead of speculation just figured I'd go ahead and try it out....

I'm looking at adding BT to my F75, cords are so 1980's!

It does seem like the Racer BT upgrade/option is a bit on the expensive side IMHO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2015 08:45PM by Cal_cobra.

canslawhero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I decided to order this small transmitter from
> amazon.ca (I can return it if I'm not satisfied):
> "Avantree Priva Bluetooth Wireless Multipoint
> Audio Transmitter with aptX Low Latency Codec".
>
> I have an older pair of Sennheiser BT headphones
> (PX 210) that uses the apt-X codec. Instead of
> speculation just figured I'd go ahead and try it
> out....

well shucks, really nice small transmitter, turned it on and it paired right up with my PX 210's (it flashes differently to indicate the codec used) and it used the standard apt-X codec (not the apt-X-LL since the headphones don't support it)....
but way too much latency for my G2...well past the target before the beep happens. glad I tried it though and got it out of my system...their specs indicate 32ms latency for the LL version and 165ms for std apt-X...so 2 tenths or more seconds of latency and I'm way past the target before I get the sound?....back it goes....

now I'm really curious about the Makro designed transmitter and how it can reduce the latency so that a fast detector works transparently....really looking forward to the first tests using the Makro transmitter and Phillips headphones!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2015 05:45PM by canslawhero.

canslawhero that's a bummer there's too much delay.

I was going to order Miccus Mini-jack TX. but they don't even list technical specs on latency.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> canslawhero that's a bummer there's too much
> delay.
>
> I was going to order Miccus Mini-jack TX. but they
> don't even list technical specs on latency.

glad I saved someone the hassle...I'm waiting to hear back from a guy selling a used set of Sennheiser RS160's (they use Kleer technology). If it works out I'll take my G2 over and give them a test. No latency, will buy...this setup is actually used by tectorist's so it's got a good shot...the G2 is very fast so we'll have to see....

Interestingly the Minelab CTX WM 10 Wireless Audio Module uses "Wi-Stream" which turns out to effectively be the same (from what I gather) as Bluetooth.

I don't hear complaints of latency with this setup.

Hello all... I am copying and pasting our R&D manager's response to some of the questions:

''Hi,

A delay in audio is of the nature of the Bluetooth audio, it always exists, the question is how long (or short to be acceptable) the delay is. A2DP and similar Bluetooth profiles provide a good (or at least acceptable) media quality sound but seems “not instant” because of the delay in signal processing and digital filtering algorithms they devise. Digital signal processing algorithms/CODECS, by their nature, require to process “the past of the sound” to improve sound quality and this causes a delay (in A2DP codecs, it is usually between 100ms-1000ms). This delay usually does not matter when the sound flow is unidirectional. In cases where “instantaneous” transfer required, such as bidirectional speech (such as hands free use of phones, handsets or similar communication equipment) Bluetooth is still able to transfer the audio signals quasi-instantaneously (shorter than 100ms delay), but with a noise that remain weakly filtered. HSP and HFP protocols are used for voice transfer, HFP is newer than HSP. The voice quality of these are acceptable for communication, furthermore for basic sound transfers.

Most metal detector people try to use a “commercial media transmitters” those are designed for one way media transfer (i.e. listening music), these devices cause a significant delay that the position of a metal cannot be located successfully. A metal detector is not practical with these pluggable equipment unless they designed to use communications purpose (not media).

In development of the Racer; we decided to use the HFP profile that required us dealing with the background noises. After several anti-noise improvements that took several months for reworks to implement the BT module, we succeeded to find an optimal SNR with HFP. This preference lead us to select headsets that the noise prevention combination was also optimal. Racer BT audio supports principally all BT headsets, but not all are not tested. That is why we strongly suggest Nokta/Makro supplied headset instead of cheap products or media optimized HQ headsets.

Briefly; The delay (lag) of audio from bluetooth of Racer is below 100mS (typically under 50ms, 1/20 of a second), and this is not predictable by the user.

Here, I have to include the information that the BT module is a module level design and is an option for Racer, but this is not a plugged third party BT device or a card from such a device. It contains an audio proven and ECC certified programmable audio BT module inside which is solely designed for this purpose, not different very much than using an integrated circuit which have an antenna. The purpose of BT in Racer is transferring the audio as fast and noiseless as possible to a BT headphone.

B. Kutlu YAVAS''

canslawhero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reading a bit more on this online it seems the key
> to 'no lag' is the transmitters codec. something
> like 'apt-x low latency' is very fast but it's
> proprietary and would require the headphones to
> support it also and I don't believe the Phillips
> have it. so Dilek, if you could ask your engineers
> what codec the transmitter uses I'd appreciate
> it...and how they achieve no-lag with these
> headphones...

Here is the answer from our engineer:

''We also tested APTX family protocols, as mentioned in the question, it is relatively new, only some BT headsets support it. We especially prefered a “regular and all-compatible” protocol for Racer because there is no guarantee that a newer and better protocol will arise and aptx will not leave its place to new brother. In any case, Racer BT module hardware supports APTX, but not using it because of headset compatibility issues, it is ready for APTX in next generations of Racer or modules if we decide to use it.''

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interestingly the Minelab CTX WM 10 Wireless Audio
> Module uses "Wi-Stream" which turns out to
> effectively be the same (from what I gather) as
> Bluetooth.
>
> I don't hear complaints of latency with this
> setup.

from Minelab's Website: "Wi-Stream uses efficient low-power digital audio transmission to achieve no perceivable audio time lag (<10 ms) from the CTX 3030 to the WM 10.

With multiple channel capability, this wireless technology provides reliable communication with maximum sound quality."

under 10ms latency, holy shxx, no wonder it works so well, audio quality, nuance is there also (I owned a CTX)....

Maybe this techonogy was licensed/developed by these guys: "Wireless BCN" in Spain....don't know, pretty mysterious but it sure works well. You can see why Minelab uses a proprietary Receiver to get this kind of performance! I'm impressed...

Nokta Detectors Wrote:..
>
> Here is the answer from our engineer:
>
> ''We also tested APTX family protocols, as
> mentioned in the question, it is relatively new,
> only some BT headsets support it. We especially
> prefered a “regular and all-compatible”
> protocol for Racer because there is no guarantee
> that a newer and better protocol will arise and
> aptx will not leave its place to new brother. In
> any case, Racer BT module hardware supports APTX,
> but not using it because of headset compatibility
> issues, it is ready for APTX in next generations
> of Racer or modules if we decide to use it.''

much thanks for getting back! yes, it does sound like a new protocol from CSR "Apt-X Low Latency" with latency < 32ms would work well but I searched and there are no headphones available as far as I know....I tried the Apt-X standard codec using my G2 detector (just for grins) and it had way too much latency, so unusable. CSR specs the standard codec at 165ms so that's understandable. The LL is a 5X improvement in latency so if your dongle supports that it would be great (in the future)....and the audio quality would be 'High Fidelity'....so perfect reproduction of any nuances....