Interesting CZ-70 Pro performance

I bought a used CZ-70 that performed like none other I've ever had. It solidly locked on all targets without bouncing compared to another CZ-70 I had and others before, read square nails as iron without high-tone falsing, and solidly locked on a silver dime with a square nail on top without bouncing reading it as high coin and not zinc penny like all others yet read all indian head pennies both dug and non-dug as relic/square tab. I probably should have kept that one for all my old iron-laden house sites. If I knew how to adjust my calibration points, I would do it to one of my CZ-70's

I assume you're talking about an air test? You may have different results in the ground.

Ken

Yes, airtesting. You are right, it could be different for sure out in the field...but I have found air-testing to be rather accurate with CZ-70's. I never bothered to do it since it bugged me that IH's were all relic readings...so I sold it...probably not a good move

It is amazing.... in the world of electronics.... how a very minute' difference in Calib. set-points can make a world of difference of performance between units. Several years ago, I implemented a campaign/initiative at Los Banos Fisher with Roger Cimino (FRL CEO) and John Chernekoff (Chief Design Engineer) to take ADVANTAGE of these very minute' Calib. differences so as to achieve 'BETTER' than standard (high powered) performance. It all started when I picked up Roger Cimino at Orlando International airport. It was rather funny watching him walk off of the plane.... in suit & tie..... with Fisher patches/badges all over him,,,, and walking towards me with a very bright/colorful Minelab Explorer new-in-box unit that he handed me. Would have made a priceless photo. Come to find out.... this is very common practice in competitive markets,,,,...... welcome to the real world! All of this was Don Park's idea....initially. That afternoon .....at my abode, I demonstrated several things to Roger (and a man named Fred Brust)..... of just exactly these very minute' calibration differences. Roger took it to heart.... as good things would ensue. On one of my trips to Los Banos FRL, I very distinctly remember a sweetheart of a woman.... late 30's.....happy mother of 3......named Sima, calibrating CZ's on the bench with VERY serious "attention-to-detail" just prior to shipment. Waiting for me, were the first few production CZ-3D's awaiting initial Calibration before roll-out on this new-concept product. Several folks; Roger, John Chernekoff, Mike Matenkowsky, Ross, Dimitar(Gold$trike/Coin$trike inventor), Ray King (VP), Amy Hath, Richard Howe and several others along with myself were crowded around Sima. Several things she was doing startled me. Several things I showed her, startled her. A mutual proverbial hand-shake ensued. The very first production-run CZ-3D was placed on the bench and O-scope hooked up. Roger looked at me.... smiled and laughed. Sima did the same. Their actions were unwarranted. Then..... the thing that startled me the most. This was the reason why Roger & Sima were smiling & laughing. I expected to see a coin "waving" past/in front of the 8" coil at a distance of several inches. Nope! Yes, it was a coin..... a Zinc penny,,,,, but it was NOT waving past the coil... rather.....it was glued on a wooden toothpick,,,,, was perfectly stationary in front of the coil,,,,, but ROTATING in front of the coil.... always remaining directly in front of the coil. AND at a distance of 11.25". I was startled... and Roger & Sima (now) felt content. Sima continued adjusting the 3D for proper Zinc null. Same exact process was repeated with a different denomination coin. Roger, John & I concurred that no other Mfr could/was doing such a feat. Initial inception of a few other "minute' calibration criticals" followed. A highly matched component Quad driver was critical. Slightly mismatched components.... and a mediocre unit was born. And here we are .... nearly 2 decades later,,,,, after Dave Johnson created a legendary monster; the CZ lives on.

Tom

How very interesting. I could read about that kind of stuff all night.

So, is that to say that my CZ3D and the setting specs you listed for me unique to my unit? 4.75 sens max depth, and so on?
I'll give everyone the low-down about my CZ3D performance and finds when I hunt a very historic 1890's site.
Ken



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2008 11:36PM by Kas.

I too have had an interesting experience with Roger Cimino quite a few years ago. I bought a Coin$trike from my local dealer. I had requested that I wanted the latest off the production line since I was paying full price and had heard that there were some problems with some of the first ones. I called Fisher about the serial number and asked when it was made. They said I believe about a year ago at the time. I took it back to my dealer and asked that my request be honored. I received a call from Outdoor Outfitters. I discussed it with them who later had called Fisher. Mr. Cimino, the President of Fisher, actually called me and inquired about why I wanted the latest off the line. He assured me that there was nothing wrong with the one I had and no difference but would be willing to do whatever made me feel better. He issued a call tag to send the one I received from my dealer in the unopened box and sent me the newest one available. I was shocked to get a call at the office and truly impressed. It turned out he was from the immediate area of our private practice office here in Ohio. That Coin$trike was fantastic...so much that my buddy bought it from me, a former DFX user, and did great with it. He dug deep silver dimes(10 inches+)that I couldn't hear with my CZ-70 with maximum allowable sensitivity and later a semi-key date 1870 IH when he first set the coil down(within one minute) at my honeyhole 1838 farmsite. He did it over and over again at multiple sites. I blew his DFX away with my hot CZ-70 I had...he sold his DFX since it ticked him off seeing me dig deep target after target he couldn't pick up with his DFX-and he knew how to use it. He then did it to me with my CZ-70 and my own Coin$trike! I guess the one thing that has always bothered me about CZ's and even other Fishers including Coin$trike models that there does not appear to be absolute consistent performance of the machines. Each machine appears to be somewhat unique but of course very similar. Maximum airtest distances and in-the-field ID, iron-handling, and signal strengths all are slightly but sometimes very different. I have bought numerous new in box CZ-70's and 3D's just to satify my curiosity about this over the years(and made with wife nuts in the process). Now I know why since CZ's require so much hand tuning compared to the new digital machines...still a good CZ is a fun, deep, and consistent machine to use.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2008 12:13PM by christopher-ohio.

Hi Ken,

Yes, the operating specs for your CZ-3D are specific to THAT unit; however, most units are quite close to each other.... I only gave you the 'hair-splitting' specs.

Tom

Chris,

Yes, I remember this incident with Roger...... and Yes, he's from Ohio,,and went through college in Ohio. Roger was fairly good at public-interface. The Coin$trikes are unique in that they were designed to handle one very specific type of dirt better than all others. And yes, ANY analog-calibrated unit is subject to deviations from one unit to another; human intervention. The printed boards of the new non-Cal/non-adjust newer technology units today, remove that 'human intervention'. Does not necessarily constitute better or worse,,, but does have a bias more so towards better consistency between like-units. The Ace 250's and F-75's have very consistent performance ... from unit-to-unit.

Tom

Tom,

Roger was very nice to deal with...I have wondered on occasion where he is at this point in time. Here in Northern Ohio, we have deep, black, loamy soil I guess you might call it for the most part at old sites. The Coin$trike appears to go rather deep in this stuff. Is this the type of dirt you're referring to? I can almost predict the performance of a CZ-70 from it's serial number-the "hottest" from the factory I have found from all the different serial series start with 112. The earlier 102's usually like no more sensitivity than 4 before the ID starts to bounce and false more whereas the 112's allow a sensivity of 6 without the bouncing and a couple of more inches of depth versus a sensitivity of 4 unless they were factory re-tuned in my experience. The last CZ-70's produced in my opinion were pretty tame and somewhat sloppy in finishing on the control box. The 102 have the nicest fit and finishing of the control box whereas the 112's seem to have the faceplate peel in the lower corner by the headphone jack...the later serials often had crooked faceplate with some gapping around the sides in the front...just my observations over the years and opinions. The 3D's appear to be much more variable to me in their tuning from the factory. Some seem to be too sensitive, others have a smeared not sharp ID/sound at depth, some airtest rather poorly from right out of the box?..but in general the build quality appears to be consistently good.

Chris



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2008 12:27AM by christopher-ohio.

Hey Chris. The Cz-3D is a poor airtester. To find the true beauty of this machine you need the dirt matrix and real world senario to make it sing.

Ken,

I haven't found the 3D to be a poor airtester. If I can hit a dime at 12 inches air-testing that reads high tone/coin consistently then I think it's working pretty good I think that has more to do with nickels than probably any other coin in my opinion. I have seen the beauty of the 3D at some early sites and just smiled...and been amazed at times too...Tom did GOOD!

Chris,

Your observations regarding the CZ-70 (and 3D) are quite exacting. And ,,,, by the way.... your SPECIFIC CZ-3D is the 2nd hottest CZ I have ever tested (and I have tested/used hundreds). Yours will acquire a clad dime at .... just a hair over 12" in a air-test with Sens on 4.6 and G.B. on 10 in 'enhanced' mode. Your black soil is nearly exactly what the Coin$trike is designed for...... and actually maybe a fair amount more 'harsh' black Fe3O4 soil. I would not be surprised if a Coin$trike can parallel the performance of your 3D/70 in your soil conditions..... BUT, strange as it may seem, the artificial intelligence audio presentation of the CZ's are a much better (human interface) performer vs. the C$.
...I'm not sure what Roger is doing now. He was headed to Southern Cal after he resigned from FRL. He left FRL approx 1.5 years before FTP acquisition.

Tom

Hello.

I'm new here and in using the CZ 70. I'm 47 and from germany. (yup, a, kraut. But don't tell it the others. LOL)

In July I purchased the CZ 70 from my friend, who is a multi line dealer. He stored this unit (serial starts with 112) in his basement and it was forgotten.

I used many different detectors, but this one is hot. After the first hunt I was totally amazed.

Is there a special airtest I can do for checking how hot it is?

Tom: I like this site very well and enjoy reading here. WTG

Do you have a U.S. dime???? Place CZ-70 in 'Normal' mode, nothing notched (so you hear all targets) in ID mode, Ground Bal on '5'...... and place Sens on '6'. You should be able to acquire a US dime at around 11.75"....... and possibly to 12". This is with the standard 8" coil....... in an air-test.

Tom

Yes, I have a clad dime and a silver one. I think you mean I have to use the clad one, as from what I've read it becomes the standard testing "tool".

Thank you very much, Tom. I'll try this today.

Yes, use a clad dime!

Tom

The CZ 70 caught the dime at 10 inches. The test was done in the kitchen. (I can hear ya...). This 10" are better than all my other did.

On wednesday I'll give it a try in my backyard. But I think there is to much EMI.

If you bury the dime, make ABSOLUTELY certain the dirt is COMPLETELY metal-free before you bury the dime! ((( It's MUCH more difficult than one would think ))). Start with a BIG magnet!

Tom

Thank you very much for your help, Tom. I really appreciate it a lot.

No, I wouldn't bury the dime. I balanced the CZ 70 by the bobbing method and scanned the ground for metal objects. On a clean spot of 6 x 6 foot I repeated the test procedure. Even 10" for the dime. A quarter was hit at 12".

Great detector, this CZ 70 pro. I'm really glad I got one.

Again, thank you very much Tom.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2008 08:44PM by Vito.

You're welcome.

NASA-Tom,
YOU HAVE TWO ADVOCATES HERE IN THE "CZ-70 PRO" WORLD. I TRIED THE AIR TEST ON BOTH UNITS WE OWN, ONE BEING A SER #112 AND THE OTHER A #102. BOTH TESTED AT 10 - 10.25" - BASED ON THE TEST PERAMETERS YOU ASCRIBED. IT APPEARS WE HAVE SOME ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT. CAN WE DO BETTER WITH SOME TWEEKING OF COMPONENTS ? WE ARE TOTALLY OPEN TO YOUR SUGGESTIONS/HELP OR MY CZ-70 MD BUDDY IS AN ELECTRONICS REPAIR EXPERT. SO MAYBE WITH SOME TECH HELP HE COULD DO THE THE JOB OR? WE CAN SEND OUR UNITS TO YOU. WE ARE OPEN TO YOUR OPINION SO PLEASE ADVISE.
REGARDS,
YOUR FRIENDS IN MD'ING
LARRY

I have been thinking since D.J joined F.T.

Since he is the father of the CZ s, would it not be natural that he continued the CZ lineup with a modern version of the teknology he started.

I have also read somewhere that he wasnt completely satisfied with what the first Cz s became when they realeased them.

My bet is that the CZ saga isnt over.

The CZ-70 is a homogenized digital & analog platform with a bit less 'tweeking' available. Still do'able...... but corporate Non-Disclosure Agreements preclude public dissemination. Right now....... I'm swamped. Currently, I'm struggling with one particular CZ-3D with a multitude of problems. Generally, I don't calibrate CZ-70's.

And you can think of the T-2..... and especially the F-75 as a hybrid CZ (minus the salt mode). The CZ is an expensive (minimum profit/margin) labor-intense, corporate liability.... that certainly has set the bench-mark for the past 19 years. FTP would love to see this platform 'dumped'. It's not a money-maker. I'd hate to see it go...... and it could be improved,,,,,, BUT, I'd actually like to see an advancement several generations beyond the current platform.

It's amazing that a properly tuned (nearly two-decades old) CZ can trump nearly everything available on the current market.

Tom

hi tom!
can it be assumed then,(in your experience.)that the f-75 platform is a "superior" instrument to a properly tuned cz-3d?...thanks!

(h.h!)
j.t.

J.T. .... In most applications, this is true; however, in a overall raw depth test...... with the CZ equipped with a 10.5" concentric (F-75 does not have a large coil),,,,, the CZ still takes the lead by a fairly large margin. Especially in no, low and moderate mineralization applications. This is in moderate (or less) trash conditions. And the audio of a CZ is more 'brain friendly' (less fatiguing) for many folks. Can not put the CZ to rest (yet). The F-75's performance is on steroids and requires retraining.

There are many folks of whom say "depth is only a moderate performance factor.....or claim that there's already too much emphasis on overall depth". This is rather frustrating.... as most folks are completely unaware of what is inside the Earth beyond a handful of inches. It is hard to blame these folks for their opinions.... as these folks 'do not know'... what they 'do not know'. Said differently; How do you know what you are missing.... if you do not know it even exists. Hmmmmmm. Hard to be accountable for this. Deeper depths is critical.

Tom



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2012 01:04PM by NASA-Tom.

thanks tom!
i was "torn" for a while,and finally decided in favor of the f-75, figuring i have plenty of time to learn it well as i am retired now,,and only work part time which frees up more time to detect...have hunted only a few times,and only for short duration hunts at that,so i have some catching up to do!..hope to begin remedying that situation come spring time!

regards!
(h.h!)
j.t.

Roger Cimino lives in Akron, OH and is a professor at Kaplan Career Institute in Brooklyn, Oh...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2012 08:08AM by pastorciminoholchin.

Sounds interesting....... and correct.

Sooooo........... who are YOU? Any relation???

Yes... His oldest daughter... From his first marriage

Well.... WELCOME! How is Dad doing? I think about Roger quite often..... clearly remembering his "commander" attitude.... in positively getting things done... in short order.

Do you swing a detector?

On a different note........ it is quite interesting to read this (nearly 5 years) old thread............ as it strikes a lot of memories.