Fisher F75 LTD2 DST on and DST off - Is there an Off?

Ok - saw on another site where this question was asked and answered by Fisher. 9.0 DST on 9.1 DST off. Unless my understanding of DST is completely wrong the I think what Fisher said is wrong. I do believe it was there intention for there to be on on an off - because Dave even said so and only because some people where concerned about loss of depth with DST on so he wanted to give them an option to turn it off. But some how that never happened and like Tom says we have 9.0 being 80% DST and 9.1 being 100% DST. So why does Fisher not know this. They better than anyone should be able to explain this or at least clear it up.

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

My hunch is that it's possible to put in some degree of simple 'filtering/spike-rejection/whatever' without having any detrimental effect on performance at all. And then if you use a more complex strategy to clean up the signal, you get better interference reduction, but at the expense of sensitivity/speed/etc. So they saw no reason to have an Off / Full-On, when Low / Full-On was just as good.
It would've been nice if the machine could clearly indicate which mode it was in, without the user having to actively seek it out, in a cryptically presented fashion, 9.0 / 9.1??

Bryanna,
Here are my thoughts. It really doesn't matter which is on or off. All I know is my unit is generally quieter say in the house in 9.1 vs 9.0. And my unit air test farther in 9.0 vs 9.1. I've been very satisfied so far running my unit full bore in 9.0 in disc. Is there a hidden benefit maybe say using 9.1 vs 9.0 to mitigate silent EMI?? Nasa Tom has stated he's witnessed better and worse performance from day to day just by changing channels, saying doing so is in fact mitigating silent EMI.

So could there be situations where we are really unaware, where in fact 9.1 is actually deeper in a given detecting (silent EMI) environment??

What would Really be nice is if it was the way Dave said it would be---then the loss of depth in AM would be a non issue,however, FT stills maintains "there is NO loss of depth in AM". Never mind that Dozens of users report a loss of depth in AM. Must be a lot o "operator error" out der.

Ive mentioned it to them and mentioned it to them at fisher they have it backwards...but they say it isnt ..

But run it and you will Know which is which...

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Dang engineering guys hate to be wrong.

There is very little difference which leads me to believe Toms finding is correct that both 9.0 and 9.1 both got a healthy dose of DST.

Also keep hearing about a depth difference but having never used a F75 before I can't comment. It would be nice to have a clean break between the two though. Not sure why both modes would need to have DST. Guess the boys at FT couldn't completely separate the two.

Maybe they just wanted to cure the major complaint most had with their flagship detector.

Now all they need to do is change their warranty policy.

Guess they figure with the non transferable warranty less people will buy used and force them to buy new.

From Toms testing 9,0 is slightly deeper than 9.1 .
If i can run on 9.0 without EMI problems i will.

5 years is a long time for a transferable warranty - but maybe the could do both 5 years to original owner and two years transferable that way they match White's and Minelab. Not sure about Garrett.

On the original topic - I think the answers we get from Fisher comes from some reading the tech lit. Problem is it just wrong. - someone needs to corner Dave and say hey this not like you think it is. Some how the code is not doing what he had promised - it is not really a big deal other then it would help show how good the DST is on these units.

Truthfully I think they made a big mistake in not introducing this as a new detector. Should of been F85 and T3. There are Rumours of a water proof version. I think that would sell well. I think if they had seen the detector whose name shall remain unspoken coming they may of done just that.


Pac man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dang engineering guys hate to be wrong.
>
> There is very little difference which leads me to
> believe Toms finding is correct that both 9.0 and
> 9.1 both got a healthy dose of DST.
>
> Also keep hearing about a depth difference but
> having never used a F75 before I can't comment. It
> would be nice to have a clean break between the
> two though. Not sure why both modes would need to
> have DST. Guess the boys at FT couldn't completely
> separate the two.
>
> Maybe they just wanted to cure the major complaint
> most had with their flagship detector.
>
> Now all they need to do is change their warranty
> policy.
>
> Guess they figure with the non transferable
> warranty less people will buy used and force them
> to buy new.

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

Yes no doubt the 9.0 is the deepest mode...

The only thing that troubles me about the v2 is the lag time the DST creates...the machine feels artificial in a weird way..

but it is what it is...it's just different from the original...I wish they could of kept the original sparkiness and blended it with less emi..

I believe its a starting point/building block for future designs..

all the newer FTP machines are feeling more Digital and less how should I say less and less analog feel to the Audio..

the latest units have pure digitized cleaned up processed audio..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

I wonder if there is a way to turn of. DST? I read a quote from Dave that clearly said he wanted give people the choice. But maybe the change is significant enough that it is impossible to have both. I think the average Joe or Jane will not notice - like me. But you cut your teeth on fully analog detectors. Just like with Vynil records there is something in audio that is not digitized that can not be duplicated. Though some are better then others. I like Minelab audio it seems to have a lot of information and nuances that help when audio detecting. The deus some say has good audio but challenging to master.

Well an F75 LTD2 is on its way from Tom. I think it will work ok for me. I am doing Ok with T2 but wanted some of the upgrades of F75.

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes no doubt the 9.0 is the deepest mode...
>
> The only thing that troubles me about the v2 is
> the lag time the DST creates...the machine feels
> artificial in a weird way..
>
> but it is what it is...it's just different from
> the original...I wish they could of kept the
> original sparkiness and blended it with less
> emi..
>
> I believe its a starting point/building block for
> future designs..
>
> all the newer FTP machines are feeling more
> Digital and less how should I say less and less
> analog feel to the Audio..
>
> the latest units have pure digitized cleaned up
> processed audio..
>
> Keith

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

The f75 all version's are digital it's just the newer processing avenue they are using is really compressed...

on the new V2 machine the early ones in design were just one mode version....and it was the full tilt DST mode...

I did not totally care for it as did others im sure??? So there was a change in it to include the old version and the new version....one was DST one was to be old school F75 no DST...

Well when they did the 9.0 and the 9.1 switchable option it was quite evident that the non DST mode was still not the old school version...Its a simulted old school version...

I feel the whole machine has DST in its inner DNA core and then the programming is on top of it if that make's sense...So even though they say DST is off ..I feel its just a program to give the feel of it being off...

machine is overly quite...to the point of on or off DST is hard to tell EMI wise....A standalone old school f75 ltd s.e. is pretty much full tilt emi erratic noise as most everyone Knows ..

I like that Old school standalone feel...but I like the New school no EMI also...

but theres a difference between EMI and actual metal detector over drive sizzle...and that's what I miss the most on DST... the old school sizzle effect.


all in all though you have a great unit headed your way and it will open doors for you that an orginal F75 at times could not open ..

What is something to ponder is the Racer/CoRe seems to have bridged the gap with high gain/low EMI marriage that is very reminescent of the old school F75/T2 with dash of GMP thrown in but very EMI resilent. ...

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2015 12:01AM by Keith Southern.

Thanks Keith--your indepth explanations makes a lot of things come together.

There are some boneheads on the F75 FB page that refuse to believe anything except what First Texas tells them (Art and Juan).

This may come as a shocker, but I do not believe that Art and Juan even metal detect (or if they do, not hard core like most of us here AND I doubt they are using the F75 LTD2).

At any rate, when they are asked this question, I'm sure they're simply reiterating the error from the user guide.

The best answer is from those that actually use the machine and take lots of time to learn how to use it, what it's doing and what it's tell you.

Take 2:
Customer: I have a problem.
FT: There are no problems. Next question?