Pinpointers - why no iron discrimination.

Ok I hunt this red brick infested site. Add in nails and other iron trash and in many holes my pinpointer is pretty worthless. Makes me wonder why modern pinpointers do not have at least some form of iron discrimination. I would not want it on all the time because sometimes I want to know where all the metal targets are located but sometimes it would be nice. Must be harder to do then I think or it impacts performance too much to be useful. Anyway would be nice if someone could do it in something like the Garrett pro pointer.

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

I totally agree with you Byannagirl. I've often wondered what the big deal would be...with electronics being so much smaller than before it is a definite "can do" project. I'm just waiting for some one to do it. Definitely would be a "hot sell" item IMHO. I'd buy one.

Charles

BFO based pinpointers will do this, within reason. I knocked together a prototype one a few year ago, it did work. Based on the EPE magazine Scarborough-designed mini-pinpointer, (with some modifications).
Here's the magazine article:
[david.alfa-romeo.eu]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2015 10:20PM by Pimento.

Having no technical knowledge my feelings it would add cost and cut down on the range which we all know is limited.

In other words a more expensive tool that is not as efficient.

Sunray Probes

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

Here you go watch the video:

[www.digitaltrends.com]

Bey

Good post, And agree someone needs to come out the a handheld discriminating pin pointer.

About the best source of discrimination in a pin pointer would be SunRay, But they add weight and are usable with only one detector.

Years ago, Believe back in 2000/2001 OTT Technologies came out with a Discriminating PI Probe (Periscope). These are great for recovering coins from parks and such, As long as the soil was fairly soft the probe could penetrate down to great depths and with a Verify Selector switch could ID iron.

For harsh soil with allot of rocks or extremely hard ground don't use the Periscope, but it's good for other areas especially parks or out relic hunting orchards and such when deep soil is soft.

The unit hip mounts,

Bryannagirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok I hunt this red brick infested site. Add in
> nails and other iron trash and in many holes my
> pinpointer is pretty worthless. Makes me wonder
> why modern pinpointers do not have at least some
> form of iron discrimination. I would not want it
> on all the time because sometimes I want to know
> where all the metal targets are located but
> sometimes it would be nice. Must be harder to do
> then I think or it impacts performance too much to
> be useful. Anyway would be nice if someone could
> do it in something like the Garrett pro pointer.


The typical pin pointer operates in non-motion all-metal mode. The non-motion mode has certain advantages
when poking the probe into a tight, deep hole.

If you want a pin pointer that uses discrimination then the in-line Sunray probe is one to consider. It has no
electronics of its own and instead uses your detectpr's electronics. Heck, it will even register what it is sensing
in your detector's VDI display. Think of it as a mini coil. Just remember to switch back to the regular coil
when done.

I think Makro should design one and the deus and so on and if it works it would be worth the extra cash..I dug a hole full of nails I could not tell what my target was less I dug tons of nails

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

If the probe had disc it would null on the nails and cause a new set of problems. The SunRays are great but they have caused a lot of good targets to be left in the ground that were collocated with nails/iron. Folks dig a deep target and the probe nulls or id's iron so the hole is often closed up with the detectorist assuming an iron false not realizing another good target was close by.

How many people would pay 2 or 3 times the price of the current pinpointers for one that discriminates iron? I wouldn't.

Discrimination is the root of all evil.

Yeah too much you just have to dig and spread out the targets and then you can grab a handful of dirt and run it over you coil and let it disc for you

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

A wireless Sunray for the Deus would be a hot seller... Although I suspect there would be more to it than simply diverting the send/receive signal that is typically used with traditional detectors.

it would have to be wireless for the deus

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

i think folks rely too much on the pinpointers. They dig a hole and spread the dirt out then try to nail the target with the pinpointer. Heck, just grab a handful of dirt and wave it n front of the coil, if the target isn't there, repeat.

Some of the videos I've seen are hillarious....

Soil around here has a lot of clay in it,.. so its a pain "grabbing' a hand full as it stays in a big pasty plug. Better to have a pin pointer. If the target is too deep/out of pp range and in the plug, we have to 'slice' it to pin point the target, like slicing icecream....I always prefer the target to be in the hole verses in the plug.

I wouldn't need disc on the pin pointer. Any metal in the hole is coming out..... till there are no more signals from the detector and/or the pin pointer. I dug the hole for a reason, I sure as heck am not giving up after a nail or two comes out.....I'm locating the upper tone target...even a disappearing pesky 22 shell.

Good point - if your in for an oz your in for a pound. I think it hit me because it is broken brick that is causing my pointer to go nuts anywhere from a small chip to a whole brick. This is not usual case at least for me so in a more normal hunting location I agree everything in the whole made of metal is coming out how else are you going to tell there is a golden eagle another three inches down.

ozzie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Soil around here has a lot of clay in it,.. so its
> a pain "grabbing' a hand full as it stays in a big
> pasty plug. Better to have a pin pointer. If the
> target is too deep/out of pp range and in the
> plug, we have to 'slice' it to pin point the
> target, like slicing icecream....I always prefer
> the target to be in the hole verses in the plug.
>
> I wouldn't need disc on the pin pointer. Any metal
> in the hole is coming out..... till there are no
> more signals from the detector and/or the pin
> pointer. I dug the hole for a reason, I sure as
> heck am not giving up after a nail or two comes
> out.....I'm locating the upper tone target...even
> a disappearing pesky 22 shell.

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

Bryanna, my 75 sounds off on everything the pinpointer does....hot rocks and certain bricks. Hot rocks fool me more often than I care to mention...if I carried a hammer, I'd smash them into powdered smithereens.....ahh, I feel better.

Bryannagirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok I hunt this red brick infested site. Add in
> nails and other iron trash and in many holes my
> pinpointer is pretty worthless. Makes me wonder
> why modern pinpointers do not have at least some
> form of iron discrimination. I would not want it
> on all the time because sometimes I want to know
> where all the metal targets are located but
> sometimes it would be nice. Must be harder to do
> then I think or it impacts performance too much to
> be useful. Anyway would be nice if someone could
> do it in something like the Garrett pro pointer.

i agree,however i believe you don't see this feature because,although inconvenient,the manufactures
know your detector has found a non-ferrous target,and your pinpointer is detecting ALL targets in the hole,
and eventually you will find the correct target you are looking for.point is you are attempting to find a non-ferrous target in a very confined space,
so perhaps they feel a discrimination pin pointer is really not necessary!.just some thoughts,but it does have marketing appeal,i have to admit!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

ozzie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Soil around here has a lot of clay in it,.. so its
> a pain "grabbing' a hand full as it stays in a big
> pasty plug. Better to have a pin pointer. If the
> target is too deep/out of pp range and in the
> plug, we have to 'slice' it to pin point the
> target, like slicing icecream....I always prefer
> the target to be in the hole verses in the plug.
>
> I wouldn't need disc on the pin pointer. Any metal
> in the hole is coming out..... till there are no
> more signals from the detector and/or the pin
> pointer. I dug the hole for a reason, I sure as
> heck am not giving up after a nail or two comes
> out.....I'm locating the upper tone target...even
> a disappearing pesky 22 shell.


this is true!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

One other thing worth considering. Most common pinpointers work on a detection method that has nothing in common with full-size machines. The 'target-signal vs target-distance' relationship is quite different. Pinpointers' signal drop away more slowly. I think the result of this is that any discriminating pinpointer would have a smaller detection range. Though I imagine there could be ways round this, eg. make them bigger/fatter.

Pin pointers IMO should be built around/using the KISS principle. Sure one with disc could be designed and built. But why??? You are already using a metal detector to isolate/pick your targets. A pin pointer needs to have decent range on coin sized targets, be of reasonable size, be sturdy, decent to good on a battery (set of batteries), have a tone loud enough to hear (preferably while wearing headsets), have a durable on/off switch, and not cost an arm and a leg. I'd rather see a detector company sink R&D into their detectors vs a pin pointer with disc.

I mean why stop with disc, how about a meter on the pinpointer, multi frequency, Gb tracking, bottle cap reject function, depth meter, etc???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2015 11:31AM by tnsharpshooter.

Re:"A pin pointer needs to have decent range on coin sized targets"
Most of them seem optimised to do this currently, that's why they all seem to run at about 12KHz. One criticism I have of this choice is that the pointer is not that good at finding very small / low-conductivity targets. We have plenty of those type of targets here in Europe, and a higher-freq pointer would be welcome. I've extensively meddled with a Sherlock DTS probe, and running it at about 60KHz, it works well on targets such as 0.22 airgun pellets (a common nuisance target). Eg. Garrett propointer distance = 5mm, SuperSherlock = 20mm.

Multi-frequency in a pinpointer would be a good idea, I think, for beach detectorists, as it would allow the signal from the wet sand to be compensated for. Just a hunch, I've done little beach detecting, but I do recall the pp sounding off on the sand.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2015 12:04PM by Pimento.

What a great question.

Personally, I would only be interested on such a device if the price did not increase and the range of the thing did not decrease. As it is, given that the holes I dig are usually 7 inches in diameter or less, it is no big task for me to simply scoop up all the metal targets in the hole and separate them visually once they are out. I can only think of a few times when I found a good target mixed with more than 3 other metal objects in the same hole. And I am primarily a park coin shooter; trash is my domain.

Pinpoint twice, dig once

I use a pinpointer to get all the metals out of the hole, then rescan it, mine works just fine, I don't have a use for it