The reality of metal detecting forums.

Been thinking about and experiencing what metal detecting forums are. I'm not overly impressed and find it pitiful the amount of participation on them as a whole. Certainly a lot of competition with Facebook,youtube etc. and those self regulated sites can get in the way of reality and have. They can also bring reality to the metal detecting community and they have done that too. But what position does it put forums in as they are the closest thing to a central voice for the hobby?

I think forums want to have an image that portrays them for what they want to be. It takes members to make that happen. If a forum is concerned about making money, as they may have to, to a certain extent, to stay afloat, they have to decide how to go about that. The larger the forum the more expensive it can be to operate. It will also take more man hours to keep it on track. A forum has to decide what they want to put the man hours into and whether or not they want to "babysit" some topics that can get to the point of requiring more attention than others fairly quick.

While it seems that the hobby is growing, it seems that participation in forums is down.Those are some of my observations and experiences in regards to metal detecting forums that seem to want "metal detecting" to be the center of their forum. What I would like to see in the detecting community is a metal detecting "people " forum that has as it's center the people of the detecting community whether the people are discussing metal detecting or not.

I'm not saying the detecting forums do not care about people but they would rather have them discussing metal detecting and issues more closely associated with the actual act of detecting. Nothing wrong with that, but in reality,metal detecting people are not overly interesting in participating in forums to do that. I think the numbers show that.I think it would be better if we had more of a central voice in the hobby. It would take people smarter than me and more committed to make that happen. The issues that effect the image of the hobby most, as well as effect the people most, are often avoided or curtailed to avoid "drama" , " stirring the pot", " politics " and other things that nobody knows the real meaning of. Those things may have to be more closely curtailed on a metal detecting forum.

On a metal detecting people forum there would be no need,or less need, to try to figure them out, or for anyone to pretend, they know what those things are.Would a metal detecting " people " forum draw enough people to grow ? I don't know. People are going to join the the forums with the highest amount of members and those are going to show up when one is searching. Anyway that is the reality of the situation. I kinda like this artist and song so I'll slip it in here---
[www.youtube.com]

Maybe time to start your own forum--might be the next Willie Gates of "Peolple who metal detect and more".

Good grief Kemper---if you are so unhappy with this forum (and other forums)---why don't you just move on???---Or do you no longer have any place to "move on" to?-------Maybe following Docs suggestion would be your best bet!

doc holiday Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe time to start your own forum--might be the
> next Willie Gates of "Peolple who metal detect and
> more".


Had to look up Willie Gates. Nah, he's more of a fighter. Ha. It would be easy to start a forum but hard to get members to participate. The ones with the numbers hold the cards on that but people have other options and are splitting up. They can still come to the forums and promote themselves but they don't get much attention. detectingunderground is a good example of how hard it is and they've been around awhile and have a good looking site. There hasn't been a post on there in over 24 hours and you can pretty well do what you want there compared to other sites.

Just a tough situation we are in if we worry more about the hobby as a whole and want to discuss the issues that might not look good on the hobby. If someone gets run out of the park I don't see too many people questioning them on what the situation looked like when confronted, just to give an example. I don't know if people are not wanting to question stuff like this or feel it best to just not get the discussion started. Personally, I'm wondering if they were standing there with a shovel in their hand and what other factors may have played a role in getting the boot. We're too soft on some of these people.

Re:"Certainly a lot of competition with Facebook, YouTube"
The big UK detecting forum I use has taken the "If you can't beat them, join them" approach, and have both of these two, as well. I've never looked, neither interest me that much.

Re:"But what position does it put forums in as they are the closest thing to a central voice for the hobby?"
Here in the U.K, the hobby has two organisations that represent the hobby, the NCMD being the main one:
[www.ncmd.co.uk]
I've no idea if it would be viable to create anything similar in the US.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2015 04:20PM by Pimento.

The problem with multi site forums is you get people popping in who have no interest except to make comments that have nothing to do with the subject matter that the rest of us are very interested in. Your gurus who are willing to help quickly get tired of it all and go somewhere else to share their wealth of info. It irritates me when one person comes into a subject matter site and attempts to make it his own personal face book page. You mentioned sites that POLICE the members who stir the pot. You ever think there is a reason you dont get to spent much time on other sites?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2015 11:02AM by dewcon4414.

Pimento Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Re:"Certainly a lot of competition with Facebook,
> YouTube"
> The big UK detecting forum I use have taken the
> "if you can't beat them, join them" attitude, and
> have both of these two , as well. I've never
> looked, neither interest me.
> Re:"But what position does it put forums in as
> they are the closest thing to a central voice for
> the hobby?"
> Here in the U.K, the hobby has two organisations
> that represent the hobby, the NCMD being the main
> one:
> [www.ncmd.co.uk]
> I've no idea if it would be viable to create
> anything similar in the US.


I'm not saying we need something similar to the NCMD. I am saying that it would be nice,for instance, if someone wanted to get a park re-opened to detecting , they could have something to point to that shows what the general feel is in regards to issues that cause parks to get closed. If someone gets booted from the park and no one seems to care how they looked detecting that park it probably isn't going to help to look at how people responded to him.

Not all metal detecting forums are created equal. This forum for example, no real category breakdowns by the different brands of detectors or other subjects. I think this is actually good. Why?? Because it makes a person do 1 of two things when they visit this site. Either frequent regularly to keep up with what new is posted or do a lot of searching/scrolling to find/read information. So I feel the more serious, more interested folks will keep coming back. The pranksters, trolls will more likely stay away from.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2015 12:47PM by tnsharpshooter.

One thing I like about this site, is it is full of useful/hardcore data on different machines. I don't need or want the fluff found on other forums.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not all metal detecting forums are created equal.
> This forum for example, no real category
> breakdowns by the different brands of detectors or
> other subjects. I think this is actually good.
> Why?? Because it makes a person do 1 of two
> things when they visit this site. Either frequent
> regularly to keep up with what new is posted or do
> a lot of searching/scrolling to find/read
> information. So I feel the more serious, more
> interested folks will keep coming back. The
> pranksters, trolls will more likely stay away
> from.

This is a very good technical forum. The reality is that a lot of people will stay away from it as they will any site. . I don't know who you consider a prankster or a troll to be.

Tom built this space. The forum members have "moved in" and created, through their posts, an environment which is valuable and rewarding for many of them. In the process, the forum has developed a style and a kind of "center of gravity".

We all have other places we go or can go to deal with our other interests or needs.

I believe that this forum doesn't need to change, evolve or adapt in order to accommodate the intersts/needs of contributors. I strongly suggest that,those who have a desire to express, expound or vent on other topics which are important in their lives do so on social media outlets or groups which exsist to serve those interests or needs.

Otherwisw, I agree that adding sub forums would be a bad idea. FindMall and Treasure Net are examples of those kind of forums and they lack the "one stop shopping" charm of this one.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

I like this forum due to the technical info that is on here. For a long time, most all of us here have been like minded in those particular areas. I liken it to being like the grown up table at dinner vs the kiddie table. At the grown up table, we discuss things that the kids have no interest in. The other forums are like the kiddie table to me. I don't need a group therapy forum made up of people that detect where we all meet up and video chat every night, sing "Kum Bah Yah", and then have meet and greets where we play "swords" in the shower. That's not my thing and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of members here feel the same way. As of late, it seems some newbies have strayed from the kiddie table and are wanting attention. It has been self described as adding "flavor" to the forum. I think it's more like adding horse crap to a fine steak dinner. I'm hungry for knowledge...not kiddie games.

Separating out detector brands......from detector brands (via brand-specific forums) is a no-no. In a nutshell:

Segregation causes segregation.

"I've been watching detecting 'fora' virtually on a non-stop basis since 1999
It was part of my job to do so, to watch, not necessarily to participate.
Gradually as the years progressed I was drawn into some of them and I'm glad that I did: I've made some wonderful friendships and have shared great information.

A decline in participation was noted around 2007.

My research has led to the decline has been in direct response to the growth in Social Media, chiefly Google & YouTube and in more recent times, Facebook and Twitter.
However, YouTube has also enjoyed a huge surge in use and popularity.

So what has happened?
Back in 1999 - 2006, folks "went on forums" to ask and seek advice and knowledge.
Progressively then, people who sought advice and knowledge go first to Google, which directs them to "links" including forums but also to YouTube.
Now, a person seeking "advice" on "anything really", will just go to YouTube and get what they want to know [ instantaneously ] there.

NB; a decline in forum 'browsing' has also been noted during Summer months, from June thru September when "people normally go on vacation!"

That's just my opinion".

Des D

Hey Daniel!

You nailed it.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Separating out detector brands......from detector
> brands (via brand-specific forums) is a no-no. In
> a nutshell:
>
> Segregation causes segregation.

Well said, as noted too much fluff and subforums on the other forums I sometimes find, this site is pure metal detecting, It loads up fast and like other forums we avoid most of the petty unfriendly politics.
I admit don't understand all the technical stuff but still learn a lot from those that do and appreciate their input to help not ridicule other members.


I would bet money that visitors and members on any site will visit one or two parts of a forum mainly, subforums are mostly fluff trying to inflate a forums importance, this is the real deal here not like others mentioned often I understand we may need one or 2 subforums but dozens like others, not needed just fluff. Guvmore.

Thanks for giving us a friendly site with the politics and chest pounding left to other forums, this is a fun hobby and that is all it is. HH

ps this site will grow as other will loose members for certain, great site with no BS you find on the other.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like this forum due to the technical info that
> is on here. For a long time, most all of us here
> have been like minded in those particular areas.
> I liken it to being like the grown up table at
> dinner vs the kiddie table. At the grown up
> table, we discuss things that the kids have no
> interest in. The other forums are like the kiddie
> table to me. I don't need a group therapy forum
> made up of people that detect where we all meet up
> and video chat every night, sing "Kum Bah Yah",
> and then have meet and greets where we play
> "swords" in the shower. That's not my thing and
> I'm pretty sure the vast majority of members here
> feel the same way. As of late, it seems some
> newbies have strayed from the kiddie table and are
> wanting attention. It has been self described as
> adding "flavor" to the forum. I think it's more
> like adding horse crap to a fine steak dinner.
> I'm hungry for knowledge...not kiddie games.

You make some good points. I don't think everything that is not "technical" is kidde games. There are other aspects of detecting that are just as important. I think if this forum would promote those issues the same way it promotes the technical issues they would be handled in the same professional way. I have no problem with the way this forum operates and my views were on what I would like to see in a metal detecting forum. This forum does not have a category that says "legal issues" where one might expect to discuss legal issues for example. If detector issues would be moderated here in the same way legal issues are moderated on some other sites the detector threads would be locked,deleted etc. to avoid moderating them. There has been talk about expansion of this site and I don't think if that happens it would be done in the same fashion as on sites that do promote those issues. It is what it is and that is the reality of the situation and there is probably plenty of blame to go around as to why those issues are not handled properly.

This site is promoted as a technical site that includes other aspects of the hobby as well as even some off topic issues. Some other sites promote and invite discussion by categorizing many different things. When a site does that I think there is a responsibility to deliver to people what those categories claim to entail.

To address some of your other points I will say that I hope anyone that comments is wanting attention. I know I do. If you think other parts of a categorized forum distract from what you would like to bring and see in a forum, I don't think you are alone in that position. I'd probably pass on the fine steak dinner to try and flirt just a little with some hot chick with a metal detector. Throw in a puppy dog and a music video and just about any thread will see improvement in my opinion. Of course I am a realist.Just ask my wife. She's been kicked off of forums too without doing anything against the rules so she may not have any credibility in the eyes of those that think forums are always right. People that can not bring something to a forum without trying to take something else away is a major problem the diversified forums face. You would not fit in one of those with your position. Of course I don't with mine either.

I dont come here or any other detecting forum to talk about the Social/Political aspects of detecting..

That does not help me unmask better or dig deeper or hunt a site more analytically or learn how to turn research into frutiful hunting...

People want to metal detect to find items..

I know Ive never wanted to metal detect or join a forum so I could impose my will on others in obscure pseudo meanderings...

I would rather 2 people read a post and get something out of it than 1500 read it and think maybe contrived thoughts of the poster..

Actually I just wasted 3 minutes.. typing this..

Someone owes me 3 minutes well 3.5 now LOL!!


Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

The heart of metal detecting is to have fun. I certainly think it is more fun when I'm finding stuff. What I find to be just as much fun is helping someone else achieve that through personal experience. I'll give an example here. If someone purchases a detector and says that they just read city code and saw something like a no digging clause in there and they are thinking about sending their detector back, that is certainly an issue worth discussing. It can be more important to try and see if in fact that person may be able to detect close to home on some very productive sites without anyone in authority over those sites having an issue with it or the person doing anything illegal. It would be a waste of time for that person to study the technical issues of detecting if they are not going to look at other issues with the same diligence.

There are many more issues that are helpful to people to make them more productive. Those issues are just as important as finding and retrieval of targets from a technical standpoint.

I'll bet you can find the answers to your perpetual dilemmas in DSM IV.

You can learn a whole lot more about many detectors what works and what doesn't at one time, then apply it to ones you currently own. If a Teknetics tip works with a Garrett you own,
that's great. You just learned something you may have never thought to try if you visit a forum with too many brand-model specific sub-forums.

Generally I will not venture to all the sub-forums, if I owned a Garrett lets say for instance. I would tend to stick to a particular sub-forum or two. Kind of leaves some close-minded and defensive
if someone posts something negative about that brand/model. There are way to many forums with way too many sub-forums to wade thru with many useless posts ( made my share).

I like Tom's forum just the way it is, no sub-forums, its like a big family here. For the most part, everyone respects every individuals right to own and use any metal detector brand or model. Along with giving advice on how to be more productive using it.

I Always seem to learn something new, along with some good hunting stories that will make you laugh or make you imagine........Lots of good people here to share their technical knowledge.
I come back often, every day to see whats new. And check out the new detector of the month................................see what all the new excitment is about.

"I dont come here or any other detecting forum to talk about the Social/Political aspects of detecting.. Keith"
My thoughts exactly, waste of time. Rather learn if the Makro Racer will work for me or not...........or if maybe the Deeptech models might be a better choice.
Take the Social/Political to some forum that loves to debate about that.

As for Kemper, this is the organization he should be a member of and devote his time to and do some real good. . Right up his alley. [www.wwats.org] along with Keith Wills [www.brokendetector.com]

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Separating out detector brands......from detector
> brands (via brand-specific forums) is a no-no. In
> a nutshell:
>
> Segregation causes segregation.


There is allot of logic in that statement!!

As for Kemper, this is the organization he should be a member of and devote his time to and do some real good.-Sven1 Certainly not unusual to see someone attack the messenger rather than the message. On topic too so even a closed minded person like you can participate in this thread. How you choose to participate is also noted. " For the most part, everyone respects every individuals right to own and use any metal detector brand or model."Sven1 Try extending that respect further and you may learn something that would make you a better participant.

"Give me your tired,your poor,and your huddled masses yearning for metal detecting knowledge and subjects they don't even know they need to know and I,Kemper, will set them free." Emma.

how much can i donate to someone so I can block a user here? I might crowdfund it.

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont come here or any other detecting forum to
> talk about the Social/Political aspects of
> detecting..
>
> That does not help me unmask better or dig deeper
> or hunt a site more analytically or learn how to
> turn research into frutiful hunting...
>
> People want to metal detect to find items..
>
> I know Ive never wanted to metal detect or join a
> forum so I could impose my will on others in
> obscure pseudo meanderings...
>
> I would rather 2 people read a post and get
> something out of it than 1500 read it and think
> maybe contrived thoughts of the poster..
>
> Actually I just wasted 3 minutes.. typing this..
>
> Someone owes me 3 minutes well 3.5 now LOL!!
>
>
> Keith

Ha Keith, I'll give you your 3.5 minutes back by enjoying your rant...I've never read you so mad lol. or, write anything other than 'about detecting'....was wondering when and if you were going to explode...lol again.

I believe there are a great number of individuals that would not detect if the forums did not exist.
The beauty and simplicity of Tom's forum is that if there are comments implying that someone is being obnoxious and self centered ( trolling) , they probably are!!
I also have no doubt there are individuals who spend much more time swinging from forum to forum than they do swinging their detectors , looking for dubious opportunities , and they gravitate to and show great familiarity/affinity toward forums that have vast sub-forums where their annoying comments can be diffused among a larger number of members.

shoveler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe there are a great number of individuals
> that would not detect if the forums did not
> exist.
> The beauty and simplicity of Tom's forum is that
> if there are comments implying that someone is
> being obnoxious and self centered ( trolling) ,
> they probably are!!
> I also have no doubt there are individuals who
> spend much more time swinging from forum to forum
> than they do swinging their detectors , looking
> for dubious opportunities , and they gravitate to
> and show great familiarity/affinity toward forums
> that have vast sub-forums where their annoying
> comments can be diffused among a larger number of
> members.


Good points and there certainly seem to be some members on this thread that fit into that. Some might not even feel like it is their fault for how they act on a forum. Those are the ones that usually call for someone to save them by eliminating those with opposing views or wanting to talk about issues in the hobby that they don't want to discuss. . One even offered to pay for it. Not too many showing this forum in good light so far on this thread. That's " The reality of metal detecting forums " as the title states. I can see some reasons why very few members participate on any of them.

I just spent an hour watching grass grow.

I felt more enlightened from watching that grass than reading this thread.

That reminds me,... need to mow the lawn. Kempi,... where's my mower??

HH
Johnb

Kemper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> shoveler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I believe there are a great number of
> individuals
> > that would not detect if the forums did not
> > exist.
> > The beauty and simplicity of Tom's forum is
> that
> > if there are comments implying that someone is
> > being obnoxious and self centered ( trolling) ,
> > they probably are!!
> > I also have no doubt there are individuals who
> > spend much more time swinging from forum to
> forum
> > than they do swinging their detectors , looking
> > for dubious opportunities , and they gravitate
> to
> > and show great familiarity/affinity toward
> forums
> > that have vast sub-forums where their annoying
> > comments can be diffused among a larger number
> of
> > members.
>
>
> Good points and there certainly seem to be some
> members on this thread that fit into that. Some
> might not even feel like it is their fault for how
> they act on a forum. Those are the ones that
> usually call for someone to save them by
> eliminating those with opposing views or wanting
> to talk about issues in the hobby that they don't
> want to discuss. . One even offered to pay for it.
> Not too many showing this forum in good light so
> far on this thread. That's " The reality of metal
> detecting forums " as the title states. I can see
> some reasons why very few members participate on
> any of them.


Sigh......