nitpickin' the Racer, aka building a better Racer

A lot of folks like/love the Racer. Seems that many do not, as well. Those sentiments probably apply to most detectors on the market.

For those of us who do like the Racer and believe in it's performance, aren't there some improvements we'd like to see in the machine going forward? I mean, does the detector have to stay the very same throughout its period of manufacture?

I still have to wonder at some of its ergonomics or lack thereof, and would like to see these shortcomings addressed in future versions of the model.

How the Racer reached production with the wrist breaking, finger numbing angle of the grip and softness of the grip wrap still boggles my mind. The grip angle is so bad it makes me think it is the result of some manufacturing limitation rather than design intent. Part of the problem with the angle of the grip, I believe, is how close the top of the grip is to the control box. It feels like if I could just move my hand a little higher on the grip it might be more comfortable, but I can't because my hand runs into the control box. Why can't the control box be mounted a little more forward on the stem, a little farther away from the grip?

Maybe one of these days a detector will be offered with an articulated grip where the angle between the grip and stem (shaft) and the angle between the grip and forearm "lever" can be dialed in for custom fit to the individual user. Assuming the adjusting joints can be disassembled, perhaps a selection of wraps can be offered in varying contours and firmness that the user can swap out on the grip.

I still think the forearm lever, i.e., portion of the stem aft of the grip, is too short on the Racer which adds to the feeling of imbalance and also adds to the fatigue of the user.

My last nitpick with the Racer is the uselessness of the colored swatch across the top of the screen and the flashing cursor that is almost impossible to see beneath it. Is anybody really watching cursors these days, anyway, or are we all watching the (generally) larger and much easier to see and much more intelligible numbers that the machine is producing? I mean, on the Racer, what is the cursor telling us that the VID/TID/TDI/number is not telling us? If the Racer is going to keep the cursor and dial/swatch, at least make the cursor easier to see and the dial/swatch more informative.

Well, that's about it for my gripes on the Racer. I actually like the simplicity of its settings and its menu configuration. It offers, in my opinion, a tremendous amount of bang for my buck.

What are your nitpicks/gripes/complaints/suggestions? What would you like to see on the next Racer?

Wayne

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2015 02:49PM by ncwayne.

In addition - More spread of the TID numbers and notch disc.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

Ergononics, you pretty much nailed it. As much as I want to see a 10x12 sef or ultimate size coil, I'm concerned it would make things too coil heavy for all day use.

The stock coil, move the ears forward a hair. Pinpointing is just ok. Make the coil tighter in general.

Mid tone and ferrous tone too close together in d3. I've been using 3 tone on a certain site more and I have to really focus to hear those mid tone blips with ID @10 or below. We all hear interpret sound differently though. That said mid conductors being so far from iron wrap around if you do get mid tone at any time on a old site, you better look into it. Even if it's one way.

Threshold based all metal similar to the old whites blue and grays. I see no real tangable depth increase vs D2 so no I have no use for it other than sizing up iron before digging. A good all metal is a nice ace up the sleeve.

I've put over 300 hours on mine, never once looked at the cursor. VDI'S are fine to me and telling once u learn the bounces.

I've dug some deep stuff, but it's odd that the depth is only seen for me in wide open isolated targets. I've seen the racer miss things in moderate nails at depth that my explorer could hit just creeping.

Nothing against the racer itself, I absolutely love the machine. But would love to see how a lower freq version that banged on high conductors and likely wouldn't be as effected by dry dirt.

One wonders if the powers to be monitor this forum...I really can't understand some obvious problems on any of the new units (don't they have pro's test them ?)

I'm an armstrap detectorist. Every machine I've ever had I strapped on snuggly. That solved my problem with this and most all machines. I've never gripped a detector, with the strap snugged, an open and relaxed hand has been the result, for me anyway. I imagine there's a lot of people that can't correlate numbers to targets so hence the scale across the top of the screen. On another note I would be careful what we ask for, I personally think a notch feature would hurt users finds using it. Audio is king with these. The problem I see with these machines is the detectorist themselves. Makes you realize what kind of detectorist some people are. Either beep and dig or listen to what the machine is telling us. With that said I'm getting brave about retro fitting my racer on a plugger one piece Excalibur shaft I have. It will work but I'm chicken right now lol

Future releases should be set up grip wise similar to F75/T2. That will work.

I highly encourage Makro/Nokta to stay/go with epoxy based coils.

And definitely keep the closed design on the small and 5.5x10 coils.


Also Nokta/Makro should consider if their machines will function perfectly to near perfectly to make their machines so the coils from each can be interchanged. Versatility is what folks like. They are all the same company now so it should not matter from a $$$$ perspective.

Water resistant at the very least should be considered. A waterproof Racer would be a big seller----since it seems to be a lot more stabler than most on wet/salt beaches.

I expect to see some additional really good detectors coming from these folks.

I applaud them thus far in their efforts/contributions to "Metal Detecting Land".

It is a good point as I never owned a Racer,But some detectors could take a look at what Minelab did to the Etrac to make it balance better then the Previous Explorer models. It was such a simple thing as tilting the top part of the grip backwards 15 degrees. The balance is night and day. You wouldn't think such a simple thing would make that much of a difference but it does. I have been slowly tryin' to do the same thing to the Nautilus s-rod little by little bending it over a chair. And have it close to the grip position of a Fisher CZ. This little bit makes a world of difference for Me anyway's as it Balances better.

The problem is we are all individuals as far as arm strength, length size and multiple differences so what works for one doesn't for another...perhaps the answer is the ability to
adjust them. Certainly one size doesn't fit all....Also having several detectors can prove a problem as different tendons, muscles etc. are used in each and the fellow that only uses one unit his body adjusts accordingly...

I mentioned the angle to them on a field trial unit I was using....

thast was 8 months ago I guess Now...and as time goes by Ive assigned the OOR5 to it and the 5x10 to another Racer and the grip works well with those..actually feels well...

the stock coil and large coil is where the abgle is more noticable..

I like the stock coil and large 15 on the CoRe..The 5x10 and OOR5 on the CoRe is to nose light....

So it is what it is...

I realigned my Racer [www.dankowskidetectors.com]
helped alot on the stock coil feel.. not on the large coil still.. Machine's dont seem swing a Large coil well on S-Pole in my opinion...

pistol grip's work well for large coils..

Even a DEUS is nose heavy in my opinion with the 11"..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

I really like it. Nothing to change.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I mentioned the angle to them on a field trial
> unit I was using....
>
> thast was 8 months ago I guess Now...and as time
> goes by Ive assigned the OOR5 to it and the 5x10
> to another Racer and the grip works well with
> those..actually feels well...
>
> the stock coil and large coil is where the abgle
> is more noticable..
>
> I like the stock coil and large 15 on the
> CoRe..The 5x10 and OOR5 on the CoRe is to nose
> light....
>
> So it is what it is...

Precisely the point I'm making here, Keith, it doesn't have to CONTINUE BEING what it is...

Improvements can be made. For the prices we are paying for these detectors, they can be constructed in a way that provides for better fit to the individual. And should be! We certainly appreciate forward thinking in how a detector operates; why shouldn't there be forward/advanced thought given to how the detector conforms to the physical needs/comfort of the operator? If a company doesn't want to add $50 +- to the base cost of a detector, offer an adjustable stem/shaft as an option and see how many folks buy them. I know I'd pay more for one that I could set up for optimum balance and comfort while using it. Maybe a control housing that moves forward on the shaft to balance better with lighter coils, or a battery box that adjusts rearward to balance better with heavier coils? Maybe counter weights that can be swapped in and out at the rear of the detector to change the balance point of the detector? I'm just saying there's a lot of things than can be done. And they will be done, eventually. Why not now?

Wayne

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

My nitpick is along the lines of the grip as well. I think it was brought up here too...and I will repeat it.

The length/distance between the arm cuff and the grip is too short for my arm. I don't know why this part is not adjustable more than what it is.

I also would like it to be able to retain settings when you turn it off and back on.

What about the color. At least its not garrett green...or yeller.

The 5x10 and OOR5 on the CoRe is to nose light....

But when you strap that machine on your arm it's like there's nothing there........
That's the best feeling detector I've ever owned........
put that strap on ya arm.......

Jack Flynn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 5x10 and OOR5 on the CoRe is to nose light....
>
>
> But when you strap that machine on your arm it's
> like there's nothing there........
> That's the best feeling detector I've ever
> owned........
> put that strap on ya arm.......

You msut not dig alot of holes on your hunts Jack LOL ...Half the time is wasted cinching and uncinching..


Thats the most cumbersome thing in the world to do, is strap and unstrap a metal detector to your arm...

might be alright for open field prospecting wiht targete few and far between but setting down to dig and picking it back up it becomes time restraining..

I cant strap a detector to my arm like that and do any major digging..

every time I pick it back up I have to readjust the strap..and if you have a longsleeve shirt on forget sliding in from the back ...

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

I'll take a shot at it

The battery compartment and speaker is vulnerable to wet grass and other moisture when you put it down. Yes the cover adds protection, but the cover costs extra $$$.
The angle never bothered me, but an S Shaft in general is old school. When are detector companies going to realize S Shafts suck?
The screen is built from a cheap plastic. We all saw what bug spray could do, and not to mention it just looks cheap.
Too many 82's and 83's. It's been talked about many times. Accurate VDI? Maybe go to a multi number VDI like the E Trac or CTX. 12-46 anyone? This is why I sold mine. Inaccurate numbers mean unnecessary holes.
Make it AT ready. With the success of the AT Pro and the Racer's continued comparison to it I think it should also have an AT or waterproof aspect to it.
I never had the wireless headphones, but I read many reviews. I have read nothing positive about them.
Packaged accessories! I didn't need the hat or T-shirt or cheap wired headphones or treasure pouch. In fact I never used the charger. Drop the price and quit including stuff we don't want. Or include the third coil.
The colored bar is useless. How about a colored screen?
Add a second frequency that can be used at the same time. I'm telling the world that a multi frequency AT Pro is coming. If you want to compete you better start offering more.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2015 12:59AM by goodmore.

Shoot I never take it off my arm, hardly ever. Now if I was using one of my Lesche blades I'd have to. Stomp the shovel blade in the ground, push up the plug, squat down and run the pinpointer in the plug and retrieve the target.

Aint no shovel push around here Jack. Been using a pick...and Im with keith, dont use a strap.

I'm betting the next Nokta address most of the critical issues.
Just taking a long time.

Pac man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm betting the next Nokta address most of the
> critical issues.
> Just taking a long time.


I hope they (the Co.) is still reading post/threads such as this one.----You still out there Makro??----A lot of excellent suggestions from the troops that are actually in the trenches!

I think they would do best to design a flagship detector. Give it all the bells and whistles and then blow us away. I may sell my dues if that happens

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

D&P-OR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pac man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm betting the next Nokta address most of the
> > critical issues.
> > Just taking a long time.
>
>
> I hope they (the Co.) is still reading
> post/threads such as this one.----You still out
> there Makro??----A lot of excellent suggestions
> from the troops that are actually in the trenches!


Hello... just wanted to let you know that yes we are here and we are listening. Maybe we cannot make every single person happy as the requests are endless but we will definitely try our best to give the majority of users what they need in our future models.

Yeah I'd go with that
"Racer" was definitely a step in the right direction but yet didn't attain Ultimate Machine status
It is a great offering from two companies that are growing exponentially and each iteration seems full of a word that has been lacking in recent years
INNOVATION

1. A vibrating hand grip
2. Flashlight in the control box

But yet, poor ergonomics
1. Too extreme S bend handle
2. Too short of an upper stem handle
3. Unwieldy coil yolk positioning

But they promise "better things"

I am definitely waiting.
I've waited too long on many other makers ....guys from Texas, from Arizona, from Oregon, from Australia!!!

Whoever springs first????

They also need to rethink the Pro pack items. While a hat and t shirt are nice gestures...the shirts are hit or miss on even fitting people when they come in just one size. I wear a 2x in a shirt so the shirt was useless for me. I think a better alternative would be to replace the hat and shirt with an extra lower rod for the other coil. I mean, it comes with 2 coils but only one rod...meaning a person is either gonna have to keep swapping coils out (and leading to broken ears and bolts) or purchase an additional lower rod. I just ordered one for mine if that tells you anything regarding whether I might keep it around for the fall/winter.

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jack Flynn Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The 5x10 and OOR5 on the CoRe is to nose
> light....
> >
> >
> > But when you strap that machine on your arm
> it's
> > like there's nothing there........
> > That's the best feeling detector I've ever
> > owned........
> > put that strap on ya arm.......
>
> You msut not dig alot of holes on your hunts Jack
> LOL ...Half the time is wasted cinching and
> uncinching..
>
>
> Thats the most cumbersome thing in the world to
> do, is strap and unstrap a metal detector to your
> arm...
>
> might be alright for open field prospecting wiht
> targete few and far between but setting down to
> dig and picking it back up it becomes time
> restraining..
>
> I cant strap a detector to my arm like that and do
> any major digging..
>
> every time I pick it back up I have to readjust
> the strap..and if you have a longsleeve shirt on
> forget sliding in from the back ...
>
> Keith


That is why you should be running one of my STP QR Arm Straps Keith... ><
I am an armstrap guy myself but got tired of the velcro setup. I make and use these on every machine I own and have sold a few with with really positive responses.

operation: [youtu.be]

Installation: [youtu.be]