Steering me through the jungle of choice

Ok, Crunch the figures time.

Targets: Only interested in gold, silver and jewelry. Not concerned with Coins and artefacts.
Target areas: Soggy Wet sand, low tides and general dry sand, Not in the Sea itself.
Dilemma: Being confined to the this is not fun, would like to go soil now and again when sea is not possible. Not sure I want to sacrifice soil but may have to.
Problem 1: Unlikely to get second hand sovereign preferably explorer Se Pro
Problem 2: Due to disability light weight is definitely sensible, but very willing to suffer!
Pocket money allowance: Allows me to a 700/800 dollar area, otherwise I would have no problems choosing the right detector.

Choices:
a) Pulse Induction Tesoro Sand Shark is the only affordable PI machine for me.

Now for the compromise: An important Consideration was also the availability of different coils and importantly keeping to the gold and silver targets on dry land. Choices Below are in order of apparent ability to deal with soggy wet sand first and then gold in soil.

a) Teknetics G2 due to its excellent Fe disc and the fact that many good comments and tech specs demonstrating its ability in moderately mineralised wet sand and Ground balance. DD coils pefect for minerlisation.

b) Garrett AT Pro, too many conflicting accounts as a wet sand machine, excellent waterproof, brilliant for rivers and rain, problems with connecting O rings and collecting dirt in these areas. Limited to 15 Khz coil all the time. DD coils better for mieralisation.

c) Xterra 705 Gold due to its prospecting/all metal beach mode and ability to ground balance here as well, not good for heavy mineralisation obviously. Appears better at establishing target conductivity. DD coils.

Please feel free to alter the order above, make new suggestions, and especially comment on my reasoning. I really am eager to hear from much more experienced users and would like advice.

Appreciations and thankyou gentlemen.

Depending on your beaches CZ comes to mind....Hunted N.J. saltwater beaches and a CZ and Sov were the best I ever used...

Dan-Pa. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Depending on your beaches CZ comes to
> mind....Hunted N.J. saltwater beaches and a CZ and
> Sov were the best I ever used...

Agree sov Gt the ideal. CZ3D, serial numbers please? 1021 and 11 something, not getting the new one. Can't get my head around believing that it is trusted.

Someone should chime in with the numbers for the newer ones....Personally would not buy a new one unless it as tested by yourself or the dealer...
I have both new and old units and both were deepseekers but feedback alludes to some of the new ones were not up to spec's.

I have altered my preferences. Tesoro out Garrett sea Hunter2 in. This is certainly coming out as a more reliable and robust PI, especially headphones, coil change, and Discrimination, but this annoys me in the Adverts, I read a technical piece on PI's in general and although from a physics point of view discrimination can be built for a PI it is very difficult. This disc button I have learned is a Pulse time alteration and that is more accurate. So anyway sea hunter because of the price. But I am still tied by annoying strings to the three above, can't let go of the land ahoy feeling, This is what happens when you get greedy for both worlds. I can't put my trust in whites after three weeks of reading, that's why the Dual idea is out.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2015 06:32PM by Salt.

Is the wet soggy sand and low tide line salt water ? I know you stated sea, but want to make sure before I give a more detailed response.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2015 09:20PM by therover61.

therover61 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is the wet soggy sand and low tide line salt water
> ? I know you stated sea, but want to make sure
> before I give a more detailed response.


Hallo over61, well the beaches are wide and varied at every 3 or 4 kilometres believe it or not. But yes salt water, forgive me I do not understand the reasoning behind the query. But the many small tidal estuaries are fresh water running into the salt.

Salt,

My reasoning and opinion on salt water hunting is simple when it comes to detectors...waterproof is better. Reason being you can give it a full, fresh water bath. Salt water reeks havoc on electronics and metal detectors have lots of electronics in them ! Also, just the peace of mind of being near water and not having to worry about a rouge wave hitting the control box or the accidental drop into the water. Stating that, a hip mount well protected Sov GT is a great unit as well as the older CZ6a or CZ70 (the water resistant models).

As far as PI units go, forget any type of perceived discrimination. Most all PI hunters go in with the mind set of dig all. The unit is not nearly as important as the beach conditions. A heavy iron laden beach is a major pain in the butt for PI hunters (yours truly being one of them and have tried my best to hunt iron laden beaches with a PI and have used lots of different ones...Sand Shark, Infinium, Dual Field, TDI). The digging gets exhausting and you will get frustrated. So my suggestion is if you are looking at PI's, the unit's are all similar in function...it's the conditions that should dictate if you want to use one. In my mind, a PI is a specialty unit and if you are hunting trashy beaches with lots of iron, not a good first choice.

There are several water proof VLF's out there, but seeing what your price range is, getting one of those new is past your price range. The Excal and CZ21 don't have a screen like the CTX...and just one less thing to break or fail. I prefer to tone hunt when salt water hunting so a unit with a screen or meter is not going to help me. Heck, most of my salt water beach hunting is done with my CZ6a ( water resistant and I can run fresh water over it no worries). I mount mine on a straight shaft, upside down so I can't even see the meter !

If you are seriously thinking of a PI, then the Sea Hunter is a good one...just forget the notion of trash elimination. Using it effects depth. So use the Sea Hunter in pure PI mode.

As far as dry sand hunting, the X-Terra 705 in my opinion is a top notch unit. I use one, with smaller 6 inch HF and LF coils. Depending on what I am after...HF for the gold, LF for the old silver coins. A very versatile unit. I prefer that over my F75 Se or similar units like the G2/Gold Bug Se set ups ( I had those too...just prefer the versatility of the 705). Plus, the 705 has noise cancel...and big plus here on some NJ beaches. I like using smaller coils when hunting, even in the wet sand. I don't use anything bigger than 8 inches unless the beach is totally bare with targets. If a beach has a lot of targets, I stick to the smaller sized coils. Better control and I don't get tired out as much. Plus they do better in separating targets. Bigger coil, better chance of target masking too.

You also get a really good lower priced dry sand unit in one of the lower range Tesoro's...but it depends on the dry sand. Too much mineralization or salt and they will not work too well. On neutral dry sand beaches they are very good units for the price.

Hope this helps and good luck on your decision. Like most all of us here on the forum ( and other detector forums), we have learned one unit cannot do all....that's why we have several. And several can range from 2 to 22 !! HA !

If you really want to go the PI route and your back is good and strong the Duall Field should be at the top of your list! I've owned the sand shark and Dually and would take the dual field twice over the sand shark or Sea Hunter.
With all of these you will be digging everything including foil, pulltabs, gold, silver, platinum, etc and some iron. I was able to get pretty good at not digging iron on wet sand beach with the Dual Field, but in certain areas that are loaded with bits of nails it will shut you completely down( or at least it will me due to fatigue).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2015 11:58PM by Fletch88.

Well really depends on your hunting choice, hunting water relics coins? How deep is your pockets. I liked the Atgold very good relic machine waterproof to 10' the etrac is great on coins.
I just picked up the T2 package that had 3 coils, great over all detector.

Firstly Fletch88, no, my back is not as it used to be, and the whites surfmaster dual (if this is what you meant) was an attractive option, until I saw the weight, since I intend to do this many many hours in a week I was forced to leave whites due to horrible weight, as I saw also in many reviews and comments. Otherwise I agree at 5 and 15 Khz or so, perfect for land and wet sand.

Over61 - Main reason why I had the At Pro on my list. I have yet to read or find out whether the xterra 705 will suffer from salt air, as for spray and wet - no chance of that since I will never be closer than a couple of metres to the small waves on the beach, and would not go on a seriously windy day, unless I had the at pro or a PI machine. I am moving away from a PI, unfortunately, due to limitations, and you are right about what you said I know. I stay away from lower priced Tesoras to be honest. It still is a decision between the At Pro, 750 gold, and the G2. Need more input, but at least I have now knocked one off my list. I am not familiar at all with Fisher or CZ models, oh well, more research on this first. Coil tips appreciated, spent hours studying about these, must know everything, hungry for input.

Thankyou for your tips.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2015 12:31AM by Salt.

I have only tried my G2 on NJ beaches, but you can't get even close to wet sand and it is worthless. Constant tone and you can't ground balance it out.

Trucker Greg? Are you a trucker, me too, but retired from incapacity. Yep, considered all those, they never made the shortlist.

Rod-Pa, yep I have seen this as well on youtube, but I also saw a guy clearly demonstrate the importance of Continuous GB on wet sand, sometimes even after a few metres. A study I read stressed GB is so critical. but yes I know it is still a single frq machine. I think the G2 is falling off the ledge, fantastic machine for iron infested areas, best of the lot apparently, fast recovery, but it lacks the versatility of the other two. THe At Pro has had O ring connector problems apparently plus changing the coil needs an adaptor bought separately so I have read. No idea how much of an issue this really is.

Looks like I have to abandon the wet sand all together and wait until I can either find a second hand sovereign GT, or CZ70 PRO. Or just go for the xterra 705 gold, or AtPro. So I get rid of 2 off my list and now my list is still at 4, how did I manage that? Life is so complicated....

But regards the G2 it makes you wonder why the statement:...ground balances all the way to salt.... really means? any ideas as to what this supposed to mean in reality?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2015 01:06AM by Salt.

Rod...that's interesting because I had a Gold Bug Se ( similar to a G2 ) and it could ground balance in the wet sand here in NJ and ran fairly well. I actually made a video a few years back with it on the beach when I first got it. Wish I never sold that unit. It was a good one.

Still no where near my choice for wet salt sand hunting but I wanted to see how it operated in that environment and it did pretty good.

Salt,

As far as VLF units go and the ability to handle wet salt sand, the multi frequency units ( CZ's, Minelabs - Excal, Sov GT, CTX, E-Trac, SE Pro, Safari, etc.) work the best. Tell you what...if you find a used Safari with warranty left from one of the dealers that offer used units ( they are well below your budget), that may be a good option. Only issue with those type of Minelabs like the E-Trac, Explorers and Safari's are the weight. They can't be hip mounted. But they have tons of coil options and work extremely well in all types of conditions. They ain't waterproof though !!!

Some detectors are DESIGNED for the wet salt.
Some detectors can COMPENSATE for the wet salt. . . . . (But are not designed specifically for wet salt).
Big difference!

If you intend to hunt the wet salt sand....... you need a detector that is specifically designed for wet salt. Wet salt is highly conductive......... and......... if the detector is not designed specifically for this type of conductivity phase-shift...... it's performance will be sub-par (or rendered useless). As of today, only two Mfr's make detectors that are designed for wet salt beaches. Fisher and Minelab. And only their multi-freq units. For Fisher....... this would be the CZ series. For Minelab; yes, the Excal, Sov, Explorer, E-Trac, CTX3030 etc.

You are after 'high conductive' (silver)....... and 'low conductive' (gold) targets. As of today........ there is not a detector that is good at both......... if you are detecting wet saltwater. In fact, , , , , even the multi-freq detectors of modern-day.... are somewhat 'gold dead' whilst in wet saltwater hunting conditions.

I wrote a thread on this forum called: Salt Training 101 that covers this topic in greater depth.

The Duak Field, Cz-21 and the Excal are all heavy but when mounted on a straight rear mount shaft balance out perfectly. What you Salt does not exist yet. A very lightweight VLF that hunts very well in wet salt sand.

Nasa-Tom, tried searcing for this report but the site came up with nothing, when you have a moment could you post the link please?
Some detectors are DESIGNED for the wet salt.
Some detectors can COMPENSATE for the wet salt.

Yes that is the best summary, thanks. Shame that both Fisher and minelab have removed the mid-range wet sand/land combo hunting MD from the poor amongst us.

Fletch - "'''A very lightweight VLF that hunts very well in wet salt sand"'''' ....... Yes please, have you seen one and I'll get a loan for one with a 3D analyser with chemical Fe content analysis.

Well I used to be a over the road for 12 years giving me the opportunity to hunt in most of the lower 48 more recently the last 3 years I have been working the oil fields of Oklahoma, I have used the atpro in the gulf on the beaches of Mississippi, I had no problem in the water or the land. I also had a 1280 that I used in Keywest and again no problems, their is no meter to look at but I swear I could tell the difference in tones.
With the fisher you can wear the unit on the belt or chest unit relieving the weight problem. You might want to think about the Atgold or Atpro, again if it's submerged you won't be able to see the display.
I just swapped my Atgold and coils for a Etrac and coils but I'm looking to get another one just for the weather aspect of it.
Also all of my gold have been found with 2 detectors the G2 and the Goldbug Pro hunting soccer fields. Hope this helps not in confusion.

Salt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nasa-Tom, tried searcing for this report but the
> site came up with nothing, when you have a moment
> could you post the link please?
> Some detectors are DESIGNED for the wet salt.
> Some detectors can COMPENSATE for the wet salt.
>
> Yes that is the best summary, thanks. Shame that
> both Fisher and minelab have removed the mid-range
> wet sand/land combo hunting MD from the poor
> amongst us.
>
> Fletch - "'''A very lightweight VLF that hunts
> very well in wet salt sand"'''' ....... Yes


> please, have you seen one and I'll get a loan
> for one with a 3D analyser with chemical Fe
> content analysis.

This is what your looking for I think

[www.dankowskidetectors.com]

Where are you located? Are you the same Salt in Sarasota? If so ive got a Sov on Craigs list. Ive not posted it on any of the classifieds just because ive not cared about it selling. Its got a 5" and 13" coil, inline probe, straight shaft, couple of rechargables and the AA with charger. I listed it with out phones because most have them. They arent that hard to find....... most of the time just put an add on any classified. Although the MLs may be gold dead...... i think .3 grams and above is ok with me. Id bet they are still the most used machines on the beach and pull in more gold at the end of the year. There are comprimises but for beach hunting ...... MLs are just whats working now. If you are in Fl........ you wont be gaining much with a SS PI unless you just like the exercise of digging. Covering more beach here is a better use of your time.

Dew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2015 02:09PM by dewcon4414.

Sharpshooter many thanks, will digest.

Dewcon, Ah, slight hiccup here, I'm from that sunny Irish Island from where every US president thinks he's descended Is this Craigs List only USA then? never heard of it.

Just for extra info some coastal areas that I want to target have hundreds of years of history, sea swallowing up farm areas and villages, But, there is a lot of Iron in sections of these areas. Also I uncovered actual yellow wheat with stalks attached buried inches below the sticky layers at low tide, woods/treee roots and stumps just above all that black sticky stuff, (no idea what this is) and the outline of where streams must have flowed. All this was by mapping and searching with eyes only. So methinks a PI just might be perfect, if the 705 in all metal, beach mode,no discrimination and correctly Ground balanced could be adequate enough for this I do not know. The AT Pro would flop and the G2 is supposed to GB to salt? So I keep coming back to an affordable PI, I have been viewing the C-Scope CS4PI, a very trusted English company and is built in England, C-Scope is one of those Models that I simply never ever bothered considering until I was looking at a PI. It is difficult to find a CZ70 at the moment.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2015 04:17PM by Salt.

C-scope PI get a very postive rating in the UK http://www.metaldetectingforum.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=269

Field Test:
http://www.csmetaldetectors.com/repository/content/file/Treasure%20HuntingCS4PIField%20test0815.pdf

It will have similar performance to the Detectorpro PI that was popular in the US.

Don't be afraid to try a PI over a VLF. With enough finds you can buy the other and have the best of both world's.

I would suggest you visit Gary's UK forum as well, they will have a better handle on what to use on your side of the pond.

Also, the Irish Metal Detector Society http://irishmetaldetectingsociety.webs.com/

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

Hi Sven, yep I am well aware of what the Irish MD guys are trying to achieve. Already watched these but I have just rejected the PI path for now at least, I see no advantage in acquiring a cheap PI over an expensive VLF at the moment.. Garys forum looks good, I am aware of this one as well, but have not joined it...yet But appreciate the help you offer, really, thanks.

I am looking into the Gold Bug 2, know nothing about this machine, so hopefully I can latch onto some honest reports.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2015 06:20PM by Salt.

The Gold Bug 2 will be useless in iron laden, salt water sand. The GBPro or G2 or F-19 might be worth looking at but not optimal in wet salt. Go ahead and get the CZ or Excal. You can land used ones in the $500-800 range

Fletch88 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Gold Bug 2 will be useless in iron laden, salt
> water sand. The GBPro or G2 or F-19 might be worth
> looking at but not optimal in wet salt. Go ahead
> and get the CZ or Excal. You can land used ones
> in the $500-800 range


Yes just found this out, at 71 KHz not surprised, asking for trouble. GB Pro at 19, same as G2 though. GB Pro came out in 2010 I see. I was intrigued by a comment on this forum where the Gold Bug Pro (same as G2) hit upon very small cross. Now it is the small gold jewelry that I am wanting to target and so far (last hour) I have read nothing but glowing reports over the GB Pro's success at this. I will forget wet sand, but moist sand seems to be a slightly different issue I gather. Inland I am sure with the GB Pro would hit upon small jewelry that others will miss. I am looking into the CZ constantly, but was side tracked by the glowing praises of the Gold bug Pro, (which leads me back to the G2 in a sense. Excallibur is far too heavy, problems with knobs on older models, no good for small gold at all.


Found this quote here: [www.findmall.com]


Multifreakers ignore salt, but in the process they lose sensitivity to small jewelry.

In general, with singlefreakers, the higher the frequency, more sensitivity to small jewelry but more interference from wet salt.

That having been said, there's a lot more to it than just the operating frequency. There's the question of how a singlefreaker does ground balancing and how it distinguishes ground noise from target signal.

The GB/G2 machines ground balance all the way to wet salt, and the ground balance transfers to discrimination mode. In addition to that, we did a lot of tricks in software to distinguish ground noise from target signal. The result is that the GB/G2 has an excellent reputation (based on actual user reports on forums) for doing a good job on saltwater beaches including in the wet stuff.

This doesn't mean that it acts like a multifrequency machine. It is more prone to interference from wet salt than a multifreaker, but will detect small jewelry that a multifreaker will go right over the top of, and not see.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2015 07:49PM by Salt.

Salt I believe you are putting too much faith in the average poster who is very confident in his subjective limited experience. I have never seen a more subjective group than metal detectorists. There are so many variables and almost no one understands the physics involved. Just because some one has great success does not mean someone else can duplicate it by buying the same machine. I hunt the salt beach 3 to 4 day a week, I've had a G2 and 3 Goldbugs that I have tried to see how they work at the beach and trust me, my CZs and Excaliburs are 2 to 3 times better at hitting in the wet salt. Will they work? Yes! But to do so requires reducing sensitivity and the ground balance is not made to work in that range so your depth suffers. You will still get easy shallow targets, but that is about all. I have seen guys equal a good day's finds with a AT Pro or a Goldbug, but its rare and they are not hitting deep. I used an Explorer SE Pro for a couple years and a Sovereign or Excal is better. If the weight is critical than belt or chest mount a CZ or Excal. For the price difference very few finds will make it up. Get the right tool and a darn good scoop while you are at it!
Happy hunting, Tarzan!

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

Pastortom, Hallo, thankyou for your comments, yes you are right, too many variables, I have come to understand this more now by reading that thread I was given a link to earlier on. So between the G2 and Goldbug pro, apart from shaft shape and handle grip, have you noticed any technical differences?

No difference. There has been a tiny evolution from the first models to the most recent. They are very good small jewelry detectors and good coin machines, okay for relics IMHO.
Tom

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

Pasttom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No difference. There has been a tiny evolution
> from the first models to the most recent. They
> are very good small jewelry detectors and good
> coin machines, okay for relics IMHO.
> Tom


So for all intense and purposes, a general summary - 705 if you want versatility with frequency ranges (I really see this as the only advantage to the 705, everything else just like the the difference between photoshop CS3 and 4, nice to have but not really necessary), Gold bug pro if you want the GB feature and LCD readout, G2 if you want to pay extra for well, precisely what? I have no idea, and the Gpld bug plain if you want spend a lot less but still have all the processing capabilities and same coils as the expensive ones. Apart from this, The 705 with 18.75KHz does not match up to these others when it comes to small items of jewellry since coil size and frq is not everything. Is this a reasonable assessment?

The CZ70 is a solid salt water beach hunter. It's "spash" proof and rain proof, so a rogue wave won't kill it. I've used my old CZ70 to hunt salt water beaches in a heavy downpour of a storm and it never missed a beat. It also performed very well in heavy black sand. If you can pick up the Sunray FZ12 coil, even better, it's a lightweight 12.5" coil that's perfect for beach detecting.