Quest a T2 copy?

Looks like there is some bad reviews hitting the web regarding the Quest.
[www.youtube.com]



After watching several videos, its apparent they used the Teknetics T2 as a base platform to build the detector.
Functions, sounds are identical. The Chinese love using the T2 to clone.
Unfortunately, they have not figured out how to make a proper search coil yet.
The GF2 (T2) clone I had with the original supplied coil responded much like the Quest in the video.
It was only usable at 25% sens. setting. Any of us that bought the GF2 knew ahead of time the coils were croop.
And we would have to buy an after market coil. With the new coil they worked perfect just like the real T2.

Here's my thought, if the Quest is using the T2 platform, the coils Quest could also be croop. What if you tried a T2 coil on it?
If it functions correctly.........we know its a T2 (GF2) clone.

Now I know why Deteknix would not send out samples to test or buy. Had to order them sight unseen dealer quantity and price.
You could buy 4 GF2 T2 clones for the price of one Quest. The manufacturer cost of the GF2 was $64, Quest can't be much more, maybe less.

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

C'mon China we know you can make decent detectors at good prices...big lack of competitivity in this field

Do yourself a favor and watch this video even if you are not interested in the Quest product. The best MD review I have ever seen. Be sure to check out the "final verdict" at the very end.

I have been very vocal about this. is delta pitch (dP) tones (bP) on the gold finder 2? I called them out on their response to MDG's latest hunt video and they admitted to a T2 clone I believe. Hard to tell with broken english.

Just because it's a 13KHz machine doesn't mean it has to be a T2/F75 copy. The coils may be electrically compatible with one of these FT machines, it would be a smart design move, in my opinion. You could use existing T2 or F75 compatible coils to shorten your product development time, and you know that you could then have NEL/Detech etc easily make other coils for you, aftermarket.
It doesn't have the rotary encoder control of the FT machines, just two buttons, so that's one feature that's not 'borrowed'.

If it's inspired by the FT machines, that's fair game, and says something about them.

Here's my best current understanding of things - To be a "clone" you have to be a pretty exact copy. Not just modeling your original design on somebody else's machine and its performance, but actially incorporating their intellectual property - design features like case, screen or circuit board layout - or programming - the actial software which is the heart of all modern detectors.

The GF2 and similar machines are pretty clearly illegal rip-offs of the T2 - calling them clones is OK, but let there be no mistake, these are exact copies of the T2, including stolen software - contraband. If you doubt that, send one to El Paso - Fisher will legally seize it.

This new machine may or may not have T2 software in it. It seems pretty clearly to be junk otherwise.

It probably isn't hard these days to buy a copy of the T2's software from the theives who ripped it off. If someone did that, then examined the software in detail, then incorporated it (even with modifications or "improvements"of their own) they would be guilty of copywright infringement.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Now we'll throw this out there, as I did mention about about pinching a wire if your not careful mod'ing your FS2.
We'll have to wait and see how the UK dealer who has 50 units in Customs makes out with his units and see what he has to say.

"Just a few observations.

When this guy opened his boxed machine he showed us a air bubble behind the screen.

The machine that he used for the demo does not have this problem in fact just the opposite its crystal clear.

Is it possible that the opened the controller to successfully remove the bubble and caused another problem making the detector unstable???????

If I remember rightly some very experienced folks who opened the FS2 detectors for modifications etc, warned of a danger on re assembly of getting a trapped wire.

Just my thoughts as others have tested these machines without suffering this instability. Jerry."




DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2016 05:42PM by Sven1.

"Just because it's a 13KHz machine doesn't mean it has to be a T2/F75 copy."

From what I saw, the CEO admitted it was a clone.

I think the bloke is now making a meal of it..... Now if every unit is like that then yes.. Deteknix has something to be worried about but I can't see it personally even if the quest is not a top performer.

The bloke has a faulty unit in many ways than one be it his own fault or not but to keep producing videos i feel he has issues... he should of just said to Jason look the machine is faulty and I'm sure Jason would of sent him another machine being Jason chose him as a tester but instead he wants to bash the machine to hell and back.

Good review I think not... Why review a faulty product.

Still interested is seeing a properly working unit, properly tuned Quest.
We may pleasantly be surprised to see a decent performing machine.....................

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

Sven1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Looks like there is some bad reviews hitting the
> web regarding the Quest.
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> [www.canadianmetaldetecting.com]
> oad/file.php?id=50717
>
> After watching several videos, its apparent they
> used the Teknetics T2 as a base platform to build
> the detector.
> Functions, sounds are identical. The Chinese love
> using the T2 to clone.
> Unfortunately, they have not figured out how to
> make a proper search coil yet.
> The GF2 (T2) clone I had with the original
> supplied coil responded much like the Quest in the
> video.
> It was only usable at 25% sens. setting. Any of us
> that bought the GF2 knew ahead of time the coils
> were croop.
> And we would have to buy an after market coil.
> With the new coil they worked perfect just like
> the real T2.
>
> Here's my thought, if the Quest is using the T2
> platform, the coils Quest could also be croop.
> What if you tried a T2 coil on it?
> If it functions correctly.........we know its a T2
> (GF2) clone.
>
> Now I know why Deteknix would not send out samples
> to test or buy. Had to order them sight unseen
> dealer quantity and price.
> You could buy 4 GF2 T2 clones for the price of one
> Quest. The manufacturer cost of the GF2 was $64,
> Quest can't be much more, maybe less.


I dispute the fact that the GF2 coils are crap - I have tested both the T2 and GF2 side by side and have found no difference what so ever -

When you discovered your coil issue, did you contact the GF2 supplier for a replacement? If so, how did the replacement go?

Did it occur to you that you may have got a bad coil?

The Quest IMO is more a copy of the Racer than the T2 - You only have to look at the faceplate to see this for yourself

Still - I dont know of many companies that launch new products without having issues such as Garrett - Fisher & Minelab know only too well -

Its how they fix their issues that makes the measure of the company IMO - Something deteknix has to come to terms with however the
manufacturer of the GF2's has no problems sorting out issues -

Personally deteknix has a solid product behind them with the X-Pointer - One can only hope they get the new Quests sorted out before they are torn to shreds by those who dislike Chinese made products



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2016 12:17AM by rustic charm.

rustic charm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I dispute the fact that the GF2 coils are crap - I
> have tested both the T2 and GF2 side by side and
> have found no difference what so ever -
>
> When you discovered your coil issue, did you
> contact the GF2 supplier for a replacement? If so,
> how did the replacement go?
>
> Did it occur to you that you may have got a bad
> coil?
>
> The Quest IMO is more a copy of the Racer than the
> T2 - You only have to look at the faceplate to see
> this for yourself
>
> Still - I dont know of many companies that launch
> new products without having issues such as Garrett
> - Fisher & Minelab know only too well -
>
> Its how they fix their issues that makes the
> measure of the company IMO - Something deteknix
> has to come to terms with however the
> manufacturer of the GF2's has no problems sorting
> out issues -
>
> Personally deteknix has a solid product behind
> them with the X-Pointer - One can only hope they
> get the new Quests sorted out before they are torn
> to shreds by those who dislike Chinese made
> products

We all hashed out the bad GF2 and SF2 large coil problem, its a known fact you need to buy an after market large coil for them. The 5" coils worked fine.
Maybe 1 or two of you got lucky and got a coil that worked properly. Manufacturer tried to make decent coils by their own admission. Because of this they allowed you to purchase the unit without a coil
at a discount. You can read all about the saga on Gary's forum. It's old news now. The Europeans on their forums, who have been buying the GF2 for some number of years basically had the same issues.
The average person who never used a detector before let alone a T2 who got a bad coil would not have been the wiser.

Personally I would like to see the Quest functioning properly, I have been interested in that unit right from the start. I still have faith in Chinese products and hoped the Quest would be a nice machine.
It could very well be.......................... we only have the one test sort of review to go by. If the Quest works as good as the GF2, I would be more than happy. Heck if it worked better than the Tesoros, I would be happy.
With a smaller coil, it could be the perfect detector for my wife. And if its a kick butt machine when it comes to Canadian clad, guys up here probably would love them.
I am still hoping the Quest that was rec'd was an isolated incident. The person who did the review, should have contacted Deteknix first about the problem unit and made sure he got another working unit which to do
a proper field test with. Who knows why these videos were posted, was there an alternative motive, get everyone riled up to not consider the product....................I am not passing judgement on the Quest, the UK guys
will have the next word when they test them. I know a lot of guys hate the Chinese products, I like taking a good hard look at them..................
If anything good came from the videos, it perked up a lot of ears and put a Quest in their thoughts, good or bad. And the general theme of things these days seems to be "spreading doom and gloom"
I hear ISIS is planning on a new relic hunting machine that self destructs...............job openings for the Taliban.

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

Glad you folks are finding a way to make your contraband machines to work as well as the honest American product that they ripped off.

Seriously - the GF2 and it's other pirate copies are the products of criminal enterprise.

Seriously.

If you disagree with my post please feel free to say so.....and why.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2016 02:05AM by lytle78.

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glad you folks are finding a way to make your
> contraband machines to work as well as the honest
> American product that they ripped off.
>
> Seriously - the GF2 and it's other pirate copies
> are the products of criminal enterprise.
>
> Seriously.
>
> If you disagree with my post please feel free to
> say so.....and why.

I agree. I would think the lawyers of the established companies are monitoring the whole thing. I imagine that it could result in a federal raid to confiscate what amounts to stolen intellectual property and court proceedings to get financial compensation. It happens a lot with things like NFL Tshirts, handbags, etc. When people admit to "cloning" a given design they are pretty much inviting the problems. I don't mind in the least if a product is Chinese, Turkish, Korean or whatever if it is new and innovative. But a copied (stolen) circuit design or software copy should be treated harshly even if it is in a new pretty housing. This isn't innovation. It's theft.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2016 03:03AM by TabWhisperer.

In the review video, If you read the comments below it, most of the questions asked above are answered. A representative or the CEO blatantly fights with the reviewer on an open forum(The comments on the video). The whole thing is a mess. I thought a lot about "reviewing a faulty product is not a review" concept, and i have to disagree. The review was based on a product the company gave the reviewer to use. he used it and the RESULT was, it was a faulty product. I am really glad he did that review, and there are a few other Quest test videos that show the same issues he had, because now i know, that this product is now where near ready for the open market.

The Quest: My opinion is like a few others i have read. The coil is faulty and not nulled. It's so obvious. The housing is not EMI shielded, and lastly, it appears the internal electronics(from what I read), are poorly soldered. The Quest Cant perform unless these issues are resolved.

Guys this company is dead in the water. I could car less about the "skin". Every single option is the same as the T2. Even if you get a working one, do you see the tremendous flex of the lower shaft? horrible quality. If you want to waste money on this company by all means do so. Your choice. It'd be far better performing and build if you just waterproofed a T2 classic instead. And the Quest gold or whatever...internals of the Gold Bug Pro clone you see out there. I do like their digger. Not a fan of their pointers.

When you purchase stolen technology....... you are encouraging (and financially supporting) bad behavior. (Error #1). But....... even more importantly; you de-incentivize the brainchild/ingenuitive inventor (Error #2) ....... AND keep the money/financial-backing out of his hands. (Error #3).

Lest we EVER forsake/haste the inventor!

Let's progress the human race forward....... via incentivization of the right person(s).

......... and my life is based upon the predication of 'the advancement of humankind'..... ((and preferably at a more rapid/advanced/accelerated-rate.)) It is in my blood. It is in my career.

Well said Tom!!

I had hopes for this "new" detector until it has been exposed as another Rip Off!

The idea of the parts coming out of China (like many do!) but assembled here in California gave me some initial hope thinking the quality control would be better.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I have serious doubts about the assemble in CA part of the story. The Google street view looks like a small office. The owner posted that they had 2 employees but that they both quit (I wonder why) and he was recruiting replacements. I found the job listing, it was for two $11/hr administrative jobs.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

What's crazy is, IF its a T2 cloned software, he must be trying to deliberately destroy his company. Moving his family and company to US soil, where FT/FBI/Whoever they want to involve come and take everything. This is why I have to wonder if its really cloned or not. Why would you risk everything and move so close FTP? He would at least prob have chances of hiding much longer in China.

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not to beat a dead horse, but I have serious
> doubts about the assemble in CA part of the story.
> The Google street view looks like a small office.
> The owner posted that they had 2 employees but
> that they both quit (I wonder why) and he was
> recruiting replacements. I found the job listing,
> it was for two $11/hr administrative jobs.


So no confirmation he is actually assembling in CA? The other part I find interesting is the about us page, it says Deteknix was founded by several detectorist , yet so far it seems a small one man run company. True detectorists wouldn't be doing business like this.

maybe Racer is more software "clone" of T2 than deteknix or GF2..but is RED ))) and is working well...

In the UK we consider the Fors Core and Racer to be software clones of the T2 but at least they changed the audio to blended and gave the Fors Core a reasonable beach mode i wonder why users in the US dont consider the Fors Core and Racer to be ''clones'' ?

The racer certainly seems to be t2 inspired and feel but it's certainly no where near a clone. There has been obvious makro engineering to all aspects of it.

What follows is my opinion only. I am not trying to 'lay down the law" or "set anybody straight"

The term clone, when applied to metal detectors (or a lot of other things) means pretty much nothing.

I am not an electronic engineer nor an intellectual property attorney, but I do have a basic understanding of metal detectors and was a Contracts Manager for 30 years or so - and intellectual property issues were often a big deal in my work.

Here's what I think I know - please feel free to disagree or set me straight.

If you copy somebody's circuit board and components, that's probably a copyright violation.

If you copy somebody elses conputer software, that's definately a copyright violation

If you copy PARTS of somebody else's computer program that's also a copyright violation.

The problem is that unlike billion-dollar corporations, the tiny metal detector manufacturers - The legitimate ones – Probably don't have the resources to take the lid off the ROMs inside their competitors machine, extract the software code and compare it to their own - to see if portions of their own code have been incorporated.

So whether we think (like a very knowledgeable detectorist of my acquaintance) that the manufacturer of (for example only) the racer has had access to Teknetics T2 program code and used it - or parts of it in their machine – we probably will never know if that's a fact or not.

It's also important to remember that "trade secrets' are only protected by secrecy. If a detector uses - for example - a certian type of frequency modulation algorithm, and assuming it isn't patented, then anyone who figures out the advantages of doing that can also do it as long as they don't implement it using the first detectors program code.

Bottom line. The GF2 and its kin are what I would prefer to call "pirate copies" true reproductions based on theft of intellectual property including but perhaps not limited to trademark violation. The penalties for this can be quite severe, including imprisonment. In fact they can be even more severe – I have it on good authority that in the African Goldfields customers who were tricked into buying nonfunctional or poorly functional pirate detectors felt that the terms of their warranty included the right to assassinate the seller - and in the number of cases they have done just that.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2016 10:13PM by lytle78.

detectingMO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The racer certainly seems to be t2 inspired and
> feel but it's certainly no where near a clone.
> There has been obvious makro engineering to all
> aspects of it.

Agree. Inspired , but seriously doubt pirated or cloned at all.

Quote:"In the UK we consider the Fors Core and Racer to be software clones of the T2"
As I reported in another thread, the Racer uses a completely different microprocessor to the T2 / F75, so any idea of 'cloning' is incorrect.

Is that in Ukraine, or the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? Speaking as a British detectorist, I've not seen much talk about this belief.

I wouldn't take one for free even it was there own technology,but its not.
They pirate any and every company at will,I'll send my money to the ones that did the r&d and spent their money and time to design it and their engineers worked and paid their way through college to have the smarts to do it.

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.