XP GOLD MAXX POWER (GMP) - Field Test

Not a problem Keith. I have the 13" coil coming and will forward it as soon as I get a chance to play with it some.

****...this small elliptical DD coil will detect a clad dime in my test-garden...... to nearly 10". But not in the real-world ... Doesn't make sense.... especially when mineralization is nearly identical.****

The image below (too small to see properly) is the 1974 soil survey map for Brevard County, Cocoa, Florida, south of Kings Hwy.



In a small walking area around the area there are soils for Pomello-Urban sand, Basinger sand, Cocoa sand, Myakka sand, Pomello Sand, Tomoka muck, Paola find sand, Immokalee sand, St Johns sand, Satellite sand, Urban land, Myakka-Urban land complex soil.

Looks like the beautiful Tomoka muck wasteland of the 1970's era has been backfilled and now sports many a large housing complex. It is likely that the soils from the surface to a foot down are not really homogenous and contain enough differences to account for the inability to duplicate the response outside the test bed (especially if the testbed is back-filled sand from some unknown location).

Good! Good! Good! (((( But I was detecting Sanford and Deland )))).

Coils arrived safe, thanks Tom

Tom in SC

Thanks for letting me know.

Does this include the 13"

The postal service tried to deliver the 13" today, but I was not here to sign for the package. I will pick it up tomorrow at the Post Office.. More to come...

Tom in SC

Understand.

WHEN CREDIT IS DUE:

For the past 1/2 - year, I have been testing/using the XP GoldMaxx Power (GMP) metal detector. This model (along with the newer upgraded DEUS model) presents an ability that defies (electromagnetic) physics...... a paradox; yet, with stupendous resultants.......... that............. frankly.......... are worthy of calling attention to such performance. In a nutshell:

1. If you hold a nickel and a zinc penny between two fingers............. compressing them together tightly so as to electrically/conductively 'short' them together............. and have the zinc penny behind the nickel.............. with only about 30% of the penny NOT overlapping the nickel (30% of the penny is exposed...... not hidden behind the nickel --- this is to say: 70% of the zinc penny is hidden behind the nickel ---) then wave this combo in front of the XP GMP's coil...................... the subsequent resultant is such that the GMP will audibly report a mid-tone for the nickel...... and a high-tone for the zinc penny......... and in correct audio order.............. depending upon which coin passes in front of the coil first. Waving this combo in front of the coil faster-and-faster.......... and the only problem encountered.... is NOT the detector; rather, the human ear's ability to differentiate between the two rapidly (short succession) reporting audio 2-tone blips.

2. If this is not interesting enough............ we can go one step further. Take the zinc penny (still overlapping the nickel by 70%) ...... but now separate the penny and nickel combo apart from each other by about an inch............. with the penny behind the nickel. The GMP will still audibly report both targets independently....... and with correct conductive tone ID. The audio 'volume' of the zinc penny will be slightly less......... but that is due to the penny being further away from the coil.... and the detector linearly modulating the volume of the audio report on the zinc penny.
((( You can use a aluminum soda tab in lieu of a nickel......... a soda tab & zinc cent combo .......... with same resultant ))).

I am stunned by this EM physics resultant, stunned by real-world/real-dirt performance...... and wish to convey this data. This is the first time in history to see this type of performance.

.......... The GMP appears to deviate from physics laws IRT electromagnetic 'saturated field' principles..... when 2 targets are in such close proximity (and/or conductively shorted). A paradigm shift indeed. In any regard...... lest we forsake these accolades. In all of my real-dirt/real-world applications...... the 'boost process' F75 SE still retains flagship depth ............. a critical requirement in my Florida sandbar State. Yet, in unique/remote (Florida) applications where depth is not critical (a rare circumstance)..... the GMP (or DEUS) becomes the forerunner by presenting pinnacle/nirvana adjacent target separation characteristics.

Wow, that seperation is totally amazing. How much deeper is the f75se over the deus in your soil? Thanks for sharing your scientific testing.

Good test result's Tom..

Very interesting...

Machine is very Amazing...

I used it in a couple of spot's I had worked to death with the analog Tesoro Tejon with 5.75 coil and considered even the fasle hit's dug....I then went in with the GMP with 9 inch stock coil and actually dug 6 non-ferrous target's in an area about 6x6 that I would of swore could not of been there...And did not dig one nail while doing so...

I think the design is cutting edge in iron ...I really dont care about the depth as much as the unmasking....

Could you imagine a F75 with GMP iron ability and selectable tone break ....Maybe slide the freq up a little on the f75 to get rid of the chatter of E.M.I. to boot and it would be awesome...

The next F75 should have a variable tone break I am sure of this...If not they will have dropped the ball ...I would like to see a dual range disc...range 1 0-100 just for iron ....I want a digitial machine to take 10-15 point's to completely remove a nail not just one click it's there on click it's not..

Thanks for the update Tom..

Keith

Stay tuned.

....... and.......... in my dirt, the F75 SE in 'bp' mode......... is approx 4" deeper on coin-sized targets.

Tom, What are the results using a piece of iron (nickle size) in place of the nickel? Or even a 2" nail in place of the nickel?

So maybe a CTX 3030 can see a coin below a nail? Maybe it also defies the laws of physics??? (Do I see Ray-Mo serving me up a plate of crow?)

Tom, when did you say you're going to get your hands on that new Minelab?

Using a nail in lieu of a nickel (or soda tab) produces the same results............. with the exception of the orientation/direction of the nail. How the nail is rotated/oriented (in relationship to passing the coil over it)....... dictates the percentage of see-through success.
Having yet to perform any reverse-engineering......... I speculate that what the GMP is performing......... is not due to the coils footprint; rather...... it is in the electronics (somewhat speculate algorithms)....... in order to achieve this type of success. In any regard, the results are nothing short of stunning........ especially with electromagnetic physics principles understood.

With legitimate justification.....I doubt the CTX-3030 can perform this; yet, I am speaking from unfounded data-base. I do not have/own a 3030.

The XP GMP has consumed a lot of my time........ mostly due to its ability to defy a few basic principles of physics......... captivating my undivided attention. And.............. in K.I.S.S. fashion.... to boot. = (Very important). You do not have to have special/exacting control panel settings in order to achieve this level of performance..... with the GMP.

Tom, hope you have a list of all your hunting spots, now you have to go back..........my heart bleeds

Tom
How does the GMP platform compare to the CZ's or minelabs on wet salt slope? I also deal with black sand on my beaches.
If silver coins were your target, would you lean toward the 4+ kHz or is the 18 khz a better choice because of it's potential for micro jewellery.

Thanks
Tom

The GMP is a single freq unit that performs well below average on wet salt beaches. It does okay....... but multi-freq units perform substantially better.
I have never tested the 4-KHZ GMP.................. speculate that it will perform to deeper depths on high conductor items................. will substantially lack (compared to 18-Khz platform) in iron-handling performance (and adjacent target separation).

*** If you hold a nickel and a zinc penny between two fingers...zinc penny is hidden behind the nickel ***

Is it really hidden though? They both are creating their respective eddies with sufficient strength, with their respective phases, especially along the coin edges. Any other detector should produce about the same reaction from these coins, freq notwithstanding. The real achievement is in the ability of the circuitry/algorithms to classify the disparate signals and not merge them together, which many detectors would do. Of course, in the real world if you got either signal or a blended mix - you'd still end up digging it. I would think an iron nail orientated parallel to the lengthwise EM field with the sweep perpendicular would allow the coin to be heard, but not otherwise. The laws of physics still apply it's just the other detectors that can't do this need design improvements so they can - the GMP is their wake-up call.

I suppose the quick and nimble F-75SE similarly gets a signal on both coins plus four extra inches of depth?

With the two vastly differing conductivity coins being shorted together........this alone 'should' null the differentiable conductivity separation. This is what happens to the F75.
(and all other detectors ..... to the best of my knowledge).

....... And with the (smaller) penny behind the (larger) nickel................. the signal strength of the nickel should easily trump (and subsequently 'mask' ) the penny............ so as to NOT allow detection of the penny............ as witnessed by all other detectors........... regardless of brand.

Checked my E-trac for the sake of investigation...

Penny alone: 12Fe - 37Co
Nickel alone: 12Fe - 14Co

Nickel-Penny (touching, Nickel in front hiding Penny) ...................12Fe - 36Co (sees Penny behind Nickel)
Nickel-Penny (touching, Penny in front mostly hiding Nickel) ....... 12Fe - 35Co (sees Penny again)
Nickel-Penny (touching, Nickel in front Penny 1/3 exposed) ..........11Fe - 29Co (sees averaged Co between Penny & Nickel, Co favors penny)
Nickel-Penny (touching, Nickel in front Penny 1/2 exposed) ..........12Fe - 25Co (sees averaged Co between Penny & Nickel, almost perfectly averaged)
Nickel-Penny (~1" apart, Nickel in front hiding Penny) ...................12Fe - 20Co (sees more Nickel Co than Penny, Co favors Nickel)
Nickel-Penny (~1" apart, Nickel in front Penny 1/3 exposed) .........12Fe - 23Co (sees some Penny, up-averages Co toward Penny)

With a rusty iron nail in front of the Penny the combo gave 15-32, a blend of Nail 35-44 with Penny 12-37. Any combination gave low-high tone mix, no-tone, or high-tone depending upon distance from coil and lateral position from coil center. Generally it was a no-dig signal even with 1" separation. The Nickel-Penny test didn't completely mask the Penny. Seems the Penny was favored by the E-trac over the Nickel. Never gave the lower Co of the Nickel when combined with the Penny's higher Co value.

Johnnyanglo, Whats the 'one two punch' for unmasking in iron with the e-trac? What settings? Are there distinct flute tones you listen for?

Johnny,

Where the E-Trac was reporting the penny behind the nickel........ did the audio report both the nickel and the penny?

A little while ago I pulled a Merc dime on the edge of a mineralized spring with a nail about 2" vertically above it. I was using a Sunray X-5 coil and lots of disc to settle the machine down in very noisy ground. (The bill_s trashy park pattern) I got a blip during a null and went back with open quick mask and a very slow sweep. Got a low/high right next to each other two directions out of four. Dug about 3“ and found a nail. Reswung and got a clean silver signal down two more inches right under the nail was a flat laying Merc dime. Pretty impressed especially as that area is very hard to detect in.

If memory serves me correctly I had deep off, fast on, tones smooth. Variability was pretty high, not sure the exact number. Ground set at difficult. Not sure what the NC number was but it often runs at 6 or 9 in that area.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2012 01:31AM by sailorman.

*** Where the E-Trac was reporting the penny behind the nickel........ did the audio report both the nickel and the penny? ***

No, Tom. The E-trac is like a senile octogenarian reporting a multi-car pile-up. It just gets a few of the bigger details and blends the rest together. But if all you're looking for is a good car wreck and don't need the details the E-trac is there.

In the test, the penny sneaking from behind the nickel is just blended together as a single tone. Actually, if you sweep within 2" of the coins you will get three tones. Each periphery of the DD coil sounds and then the center will respond - three high tones. Raise the coil and only the more intense center will sound - high and only once. Put the coins 4" apart and raise the coil to avoid getting a reaction from the coil edges and you don't get separate tones. Instead you get a slightly elongated high tone or a long tone with two slight audio peaks, still essentially a single high tone with variations.

So, unlike the Deus and GMP there is not a clear target audio delineation that says "penny" and then "nickel". The E-trac says, "Penickel".

*** Whats the 'one two punch' for unmasking in iron with the e-trac? What settings? Are there distinct flute tones you listen for? ***

Disclaimer: To keep toe stepping to a minimum, the following is simply my experience (your mileage may vary).

The E-trac has a very real and present danger of nulling when any iron is under the coil. There is no setting that can mitigate this, it is part and parcel of the design of the E-Trac sampling and measuring schema. Yes it can give a high tone on a buried coin surrounded by iron nails, if the target arrangement is just right. It is the luck of the draw - iron is like an EM magnet, pulling the field through itself. It redirects the field lines in a variety of ways most of which hampers detection of anything small and non-ferrous. The E-Trac favors the ferrous signal since it is an overpowering reactive signal driving the TID into the high Ferrous numbers and the audio to a low tone (don't dig) even if a non-ferrous target is nearby.

So what do you do to give the best fighting chance to that deeper non-ferrous nickel struggling to be unmasked? Most iron targets are thin and elongated - which makes their response directional. You can't alter the orientation of buried iron but you can change the sweep attack of the EM field. So, the best way I have found when in deep iron do-do is to sweep slowly combined with changing coil sweep angles randomly and constantly. If you hear that still, small, (not voice, I know what you were thinking) chirp of high tone - stop and zero in on it. Get it centered exactly under the coil center and move the coil every so slightly - 1/2" either side. You've got to try and isolate that poor non-ferrous target in a field of mean nasty signal-bending iron. Yes, iron will often give a brief high chirp too, at the nail head, pointy-end, and at bends, where eddy action can flow weakly but without a paired cancelling by other eddies. Turn around the target and if it is a nail the resistive signal will vanish-reappear-vanish and the TID will jump along the Fe number low-high-low or dive above 27Fe. The nail is simply presenting itself as a magnetic-domain-shifting reactive ferrous bad-guy but with a weak eddy-generating resistive good-guy giving a shout-out too (like at the nail tip for instance). Every change of the coil orientation, no matter how small is altering which signal has preeminence, and the detector is going crazy. However, you should see non-ferrous targets jump less than ferrous would, as you pivot around the centered signal - the Co number usually holds tighter too than would a rusty nail imitating a good target. Again, you are not 'sweeping' the coil, tiny focused movements is a must.

I hunt in open (no disc) so there is nothing needed else to listen for the peck of a high tone and then investigate (as above). Takes less than ten seconds to decide if it diggable - ears first then eyes. You should also be making educated guesses before digging - you should 'know' what you are likely to find. There are surprises but it really boils down to pattern recognition - similar pattern, similar result.

I don't find much difference with all the settings (sacrilegious I know). The biggest game changer is sensitivity, the higher you get that number, without falsing, the more depth. The rest is rearranging deck-chairs. I leave Trash Density on High all the time. Recovery Fast on High unless at the beach (not found much affect in trashy sites but don't want to anger Minelab so I leave it on High). Threshold Pitch around 5-10. Tone ID Variability about 30. Vol Gain around 24-26 (don't overdo it). Sensitivity at Auto +3, but check if you can punch it higher occasionally as you hunt. If it starts whining at you, drop it down or go back to Auto +3. I keep Ground at Difficult unless on the beach. Response: Normal or Long. Tone ID sound: Ferrous or Conduct - don't really care. Non-ferrous is going to give a high tone (happy sound) with most coins and rings. Nails will be low in Ferrous and low-high in Conduct so I tend to stick with Ferrous. I use Two-Tone (easy listening - like Abba) or Multi (like Pat Boone singing death-metal), but change it up for no apparent reason other than boredom. Four tone is like Abba singing Pat Boone - it is neither here nor there, so it is mostly not anywhere.

That's about it. It's really a simple (but expensive) turn-on-and-go machine that does quite well on high conductors in tough magnetic soils. It's not for small, thin, jewelry or unmasking amongst nails. It does what it does and where it does well, it does very well.

John



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2012 03:02AM by Johnnyanglo.

Thanks John, Informative read with good humor mixed in, enjoyed it.

Keith ,

"I think the design is cutting edge in iron ...I really dont care about the depth as much as the unmasking...."

BINGO !!!.....I couldn't agree more !!......

JohnnyA ,

I have found pretty much the same scenario as you have wtih my ETrac ...... After owning many Minelab machines , the "Blending " of target VDI numbers is common place ......Slowing down the swing speed and changing the directions of the swing is mandatory !!......If not a large area where a larger coil is nessesary , going to a smaller coil that will go as deep as possible is also a big help, however there are certain situations where the size of the coil just doesn't matter due to the lay of the targets .... You would be surprised how many good targets are lost not by depth , but by masking !!..... As Tom has mantioned in his masking article , how do you know what you are missing if you can't hear it ? ....... Knowing the difference between a good target with those high " chirps " that we listen for , and iron that is just plain falsing , is also helpful ...... Jim

John,

Your statement about the E-Trac:

"That's about it. It's really a simple (but expensive) turn-on-and-go machine that does quite well on high conductors in tough magnetic soils. It's not for small, thin, jewelry or unmasking amongst nails. It does what it does and where it does well, it does very well.

John"

........... is spot-on.

I have been testing the Detech Ultimate 13" round DD coil on the GMP. In a nutshell:

* A very minute' increase in EMI over stock 9" DD coil. This is a non-issue.
* Approx 0.2" increase in detection depth performance on a clad dime (in Florida inert dirt) over stock 9" DD coil.
* Approx 8% less adjacent target separation abilities vs. stock 9" DD coil... in 'controlled' test-garden environment.

These statistics hold true for test-garden and real-world dirt performance. I am intrigued by all three results. I anticipated more EMI..... but did not encounter it. I expected quite a bit more depth performance..... and did not acquire it. And I expected more masking /// less adjacent target separation characteristics......... but separation was very good for this large of a coil. In the real world (vs. test-garden)...... I did incur more masking; yet, not as bad as 'expectations'.

The GMP electronic architect/platform continues to express paradox performance.

tmanly = Thanks for sending this coil to me for testing. Will return to you soon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2013 12:04PM by NASA-Tom.

Just to add here regarding the GMP's ability to pick up a coin 1" below a nail. Add the Rutus Jupiter to the list. It does it cleanly and easily. [www.youtube.com]
I would also add the machine is very very good in iron, which has been said by many other detectorists. It does not get good depth however. It is a site specific machine.

Regarding the CTX, it failed the coin 1" below nail test (above ground). Note - it gives many false positives (especially with the ferrous coin setting enabled). I was a bit confused while doing the video but came to that realization while filming. [www.youtube.com]
I suspect/speciulate it would do slightly better in ground due to how FBS does better in ground, but I don't think it will do it to the degree of the Jupiter & GMP.

Albert