Why No new beach dedicated units?

Why aren't there any new beach dedicated units being released? The last semi-beach unit released was the Minelab CTX3030 in 2012. Salt water beaches I am referring to. Let's face it, the Fisher CZ20/CZ21 are ancient at almost 30 years old tech and the Minelab BBS Excalibur/Sovereigns are nearly 25 years old technology!! I'm wondering why in this day in age manufacturers aren't releasing machines for salt water detecting and are continuing to produce units that are primitive in comparison to their land based counterparts, almost embarrassingly so. I would love Minelab to really utilize FBS as a water unit, and Whites take full advantage of a digital V3i for the beach. Dedicated salt beach detectorist pay a premium for a machine that caters to their needs. Why has this facet of detecting been pushed to the wayside?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2016 07:06AM by Jressman.

I was hoping the Impact coming from Nokta was going to be the multi frequency machine in a waterproof box that we all have been waiting for. But now it seems by the other thread that it is like the Deus and can run only one frequency at a time. So we are again stuck with 3 decade old technology. I had my Excal modded trying to squeeze some extra depth from it. Hunting in all metal has me slowed way down. I also picked up a Whites Dual field for even more depth in specific areas. But I sure am with you. There is a big market of salt water hunters out there waiting for that new model. I thought Minelab would replace the Sovereign. Wrong! I thought Garrett would release a multi frequency AT Pro. Wrong! I thought Fisher needing a home run detector would step up. Wrong! Whites went fresh water with the new Sport. There sure is a market there. Maybe salt water has too many users returning their detectors for warranty work. Every time a detector is returned that is lost revenue. Just thinking out loud.

I just think right now the CTX and Xcal have been to reliable and difficult to compete with. It is odd that Whites hasnt wanted to upgrade the BHID or use the V3. But the DFX sometimes wouldnt GB on the Fl beach..... so they had a factory setting. This may well not work in the salt water. I sometimes use an Aqua Sound which doesnt do well except here in Fl because of the black sand. But it uses two tones...... bong for iron and zip for everything else. Id settle for a PI that did the same thing because in reality i just need to know im not digging iron. Also ..... these machines you mentioned are DIVE machines except for the CTX. None of the companies seems to have an answer for the CTX on land either. Someone mentioned a Deus coming with multi freq...... but again, no one seems to want to tackle salt water.

Dew

I just don't understand why manufacturers will kick out coin machines yearly especially in the low to mid price point, but completely neglect a huge demograph of our hobby. It's not like beach guys don't have money. Many of them spend $200+ on a scoop!!

Makes absolutely no sense. If whites worked on a waterproof version of the TDI many would be on it. Then figure out how to discrim iron with it and its the #1 beach seller. I own a CZ21, Whites DF, and I am now buying a Excal to mod and I know they could all be improved.

Just a question for you guys. Is the Garrett Infinium not a good candidate for beach hunting? I would think with one of the mono coils on it, that it would go decently deep in the wet and mineralized sand. BUT I have only been on a saltwater beach once in my life with a metal detector so I have no idea.

Beach metal detecting bans don't help motivate manufactures.. They look long term and think is it worth it,same for high end high cost R&D for more expensive land machines. They are kick'in out a butt load of good mid price units though.

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.

I really hope someone is working on a new dedicated waterproof salt beach machine, I just wonder if there having trouble getting better performance than the excal, ctx, or Cz tech? Maybe they're working on improving new tech "ZVT" with disc. Just hope price is reasonable. Ha. Truthfully I can't see me wanting to dig any deeper than my ctx with 17" coil or excal/wot in the wet sand. I just wish there was a way to get the small gold/chains in a saltwater environment.

Sand dog

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just a question for you guys. Is the Garrett
> Infinium not a good candidate for beach hunting?
> I would think with one of the mono coils on it,
> that it would go decently deep in the wet and
> mineralized sand. BUT I have only been on a
> saltwater beach once in my life with a metal
> detector so I have no idea.

It is good for beach detecting but it depends where and on the conditions. If you were on the east coast of the US where I live its going to be pretty tedious to use a PI machine where beaches elsewhere on the west/hawaii might be much better suited for it. If you are going in the water though or the beach is sanded in it can be great. So it depends.

I wonder if the reason the manufacturers aren't producing new saltwater detectors is a question of profit vs overhead to produce/them? I know coin hunting is big, and relic hunting, but is the number of people who would buy dedicated beach detector significantly smaller than those looking for coins and/or relics?

Its pretty clear who finds pay for a detector. This is fast becoming the place to be for paying for a detector. Most I know will fork out for a CTX...... surely another with that caliber would be bought. Yes the finny works on thebeach..... and its water prood with a lot of ability...like coil and headphone swaps that mist PIs and top dog VLFs dont have. Pretty low Us makes it a little chatty around EMI.

DFinTX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder if the reason the manufacturers aren't
> producing new saltwater detectors is a question of
> profit vs overhead to produce/them? I know coin
> hunting is big, and relic hunting, but is the
> number of people who would buy dedicated beach
> detector significantly smaller than those looking
> for coins and/or relics?

I think there are more people buying machines for the beach then anything else. Look at the forums and beach/sand detector ones always have the most conversations. But who knows my observations could be way off

I think cost of R&D is a factor. I would be happy with an update on that's already available. Like a CZ that uses lithium battery and a DD coil. Concentric coils belong on entry level machines in my opinion and 9v batteries are expensive and again belong on entry level machines like Bounty Hunters. Minelab could keep the BBS tech but make the Excal on a straight shaft and address the weakness of the potentiometers. A new paint scheme would be nice too. The fluorescent colors make it look like a prop from an 80s hair band music video. It's mind boggling that Minelab charges $1500 for a machine that most users spend another $200+ to modify it the way it should have come from the factory with a straight shaft, knob guard, and better headphone. Just my .02

adamBomb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DFinTX Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I wonder if the reason the manufacturers aren't
> > producing new saltwater detectors is a question
> of
> > profit vs overhead to produce/them? I know
> coin
> > hunting is big, and relic hunting, but is the
> > number of people who would buy dedicated beach
> > detector significantly smaller than those
> looking
> > for coins and/or relics?
>
> I think there are more people buying machines for
> the beach then anything else. Look at the forums
> and beach/sand detector ones always have the most
> conversations. But who knows my observations could
> be way off

I doubt that,,,probably couple hundred landmachines built for every dedicated salt beach machine.
Millions of acres of inland land,only a fraction of coastal shoreline has Beach goer traffic and a lot is state or national park lands,,No hunting period.

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.

Most of us water hunters are willing to pay for a top notch detector for salt water. BUT...... the Xcal seems to be the gauge we all compare them to. Not sure about that TDI.... the Finny is the same Us and both i believe have a HI/LOW tone for iron. Id say the TDI would need some tweaking for sure..........which may not be a big pay off with out better disc of iron....... its still a PI. Most of the guys out there a lot KNOW ...... spend the money for the best machine you can ... even to the point of modifying it because it WILL pay for its self. Unlike a lot of dirt machines ......... we expect more repairs as well.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just a question for you guys. Is the Garrett
> Infinium not a good candidate for beach hunting?
> I would think with one of the mono coils on it,
> that it would go decently deep in the wet and
> mineralized sand. BUT I have only been on a
> saltwater beach once in my life with a metal
> detector so I have no idea.

The Finny is my number one PI unit for the NJ beaches I hunt. It's found me more gold than any other detector. Granted there are some beaches and days where there is just too much iron to contend with and even with the HI/LO feature it gets to be tedious, but when the iron is moderate, the Finny is a super unit.

I only use the 10x12 mono coil on it and its on a straight shaft so I can swing it all day long with no fatigue. EMI is not an issue due to the frequency adjust feature and that is a huge plus at some beaches where the EMI noise can pay havoc on a lot of units.

Here's a nice find with my Finny



The stock headphones are OK but I now use a pair of GG underwaters and the sound is much better. Only drawback is the Finny does not have a volume knob and I have a pair of the older GG without the volume knobs so when the waves are banging it sometimes hard to hear the deep whispers of the hi/lo signal.

Overall, a PI unit with freq adjustment, ground balancing, tuned for gold, hi/lo signal feature, ability to change coils and waterproof....what's not to like.

Jressman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think cost of R&D is a factor. I would be happy
> with an update on that's already available. Like a
> CZ that uses lithium battery and a DD coil.
> Concentric coils belong on entry level machines in
> my opinion and 9v batteries are expensive and
> again belong on entry level machines like Bounty
> Hunters. Minelab could keep the BBS tech but make
> the Excal on a straight shaft and address the
> weakness of the potentiometers. A new paint scheme
> would be nice too. The fluorescent colors make it
> look like a prop from an 80s hair band music
> video. It's mind boggling that Minelab charges
> $1500 for a machine that most users spend another
> $200+ to modify it the way it should have come
> from the factory with a straight shaft, knob
> guard, and better headphone. Just my .02
S
Really,, I think a lot of pro's use and like their concentric coils.I would rather have a concentric in many locations.
Certainly not a entry level Bounty Hunter coil.

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2016 06:17PM by supertraq.

Is the pulse delay on the infinium the same as the TDI? I can't find anywhere that confirms if its 10 or 15. I also wasn't sure if it were as deep. The only test I see is that one video that shows the TDI at the beach destroying all of the other PIs and in that video the DF and Infinium were the same, which was a tad deeper than the sand shark. I know its just one video but man that is quite a difference: [www.youtube.com]

I think you are spot on Supertraq! There are way more people in the world who are able to land detect than a few who are lucky and able enough to live close to the coastlines.


supertraq Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> adamBomb Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > DFinTX Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I wonder if the reason the manufacturers
> aren't
> > > producing new saltwater detectors is a
> question
> > of
> > > profit vs overhead to produce/them? I know
> > coin
> > > hunting is big, and relic hunting, but is the
> > > number of people who would buy dedicated
> beach
> > > detector significantly smaller than those
> > looking
> > > for coins and/or relics?
> >
> > I think there are more people buying machines
> for
> > the beach then anything else. Look at the
> forums
> > and beach/sand detector ones always have the
> most
> > conversations. But who knows my observations
> could
> > be way off
>
> I doubt that,,,probably couple hundred
> landmachines built for every dedicated salt beach
> machine.
> Millions of acres of inland land,only a fraction
> of coastal shoreline has Beach goer traffic and a
> lot is state or national park lands,,No hunting
> period.

there's really not any New technology to handle saltwater ..

You know what happens to VLF's in salt water..

GOLD DEAD..

Maybe if there's ever a Disc P.I. circuit developed things will change..

Or even some new Tech..

the GPZ 7000 maybe???..they are talking about adding a disc to it...

if they do I know I will have one.Just for my soil..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

> > I doubt that,,,probably couple hundred
> > landmachines built for every dedicated salt
> beach
> > machine.
> > Millions of acres of inland land,only a
> fraction
> > of coastal shoreline has Beach goer traffic and
> a
> > lot is state or national park lands,,No hunting
> > period.


This could be correct. I mean there are more landlocked people. But then again I had never in my life heard or saw someone metal detecting unless it was at the beach. But I realize my experience isn't the actual numbers

It would be nice if some one from around Charlotte NC would try and find Dave Emery and talk to him about his Pulse Devil Discriminating Detector I know he got discouraged with everyone thinking that he owed them something.
Still he had a patent on a electronic item of some kind. Tesoro would do well if the were to up grade with a new Detector and they did a great job on the troy in my opinion.

Keith buddy...... ive got a safe full of gold that says a VLF is doing pretty well. I assume you mean really deep gold..... or small gold less than .3 grams.

Yea the beach is the only place I run into other people with a metal detector.. A couple of times I've run into a detectorist but usually a tourist with a ace 150 who's going to pay for his trip in gold and jewels.. Coil knee high and clueless as to why he hasn't found anything.. Tell them to put the coil to soil and they look at you like your a moron.

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.

Fletch88 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you are spot on Supertraq! There are way
> more people in the world who are able to land
> detect than a few who are lucky and able enough to
> live close to the coastlines.
>
>
> supertraq Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > adamBomb Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > DFinTX Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > I wonder if the reason the manufacturers
> > aren't
> > > > producing new saltwater detectors is a
> > question
> > > of
> > > > profit vs overhead to produce/them? I know
> > > coin
> > > > hunting is big, and relic hunting, but is
> the
> > > > number of people who would buy dedicated
> > beach
> > > > detector significantly smaller than those
> > > looking
> > > > for coins and/or relics?
> > >
> > > I think there are more people buying machines
> > for
> > > the beach then anything else. Look at the
> > forums
> > > and beach/sand detector ones always have the
> > most
> > > conversations. But who knows my observations
> > could
> > > be way off
> >
> > I doubt that,,,probably couple hundred
> > landmachines built for every dedicated salt
> beach
> > machine.
> > Millions of acres of inland land,only a
> fraction
> > of coastal shoreline has Beach goer traffic and
> a
> > lot is state or national park lands,,No hunting
> > period.


This pertains to USA--I had heard this before,,when Hurricanes were being talked about.

[oceanservice.noaa.gov]

Worldly info

[www.npr.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2016 04:55AM by tnsharpshooter.

It doesn't have to be a newer advanced machine in the performance department. Give me the performance of a Sovereign, Excal , or CZ21 which are all about the same in the body of a waterproof Xterra. The weight saving alone would sell a hell of a pile of detectors.

goodmore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It doesn't have to be a newer advanced machine in
> the performance department. Give me the
> performance of a Sovereign, Excal , or CZ21 which
> are all about the same in the body of a waterproof
> Xterra. The weight saving alone would sell a hell
> of a pile of detectors.

There in lies the challenge! The required electronic components with current technology machines weighs what it weighs. The bulkiness and weight is a necessary evil not just some random choice they came up with. I'm sure if they could make it like a compadre they would.

goodmore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It doesn't have to be a newer advanced machine in
> the performance department. Give me the
> performance of a Sovereign, Excal , or CZ21 which
> are all about the same in the body of a waterproof
> Xterra. The weight saving alone would sell a hell
> of a pile of detectors.

+1

The main reason I'm keeping an eye on the MX Sport for my fresh water hunting is the compact layout.

Tom

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.

They could change the excal/cz21 to make them more user friendly out of the box. There are tons of options that would make them better machines. Ergonomics + ability to change coils/headphones would be huge for those machines.

So does anyone have numbers of where people tend to hunt? I guess the lower end machines probably sell the most but I really think the beach is king.

Well I just bought and installed a mount bracket off eBay,,very well built too that mounts it under the arm and it fills much better now.
It was like $12.95 I believe.
My cz20

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2016 09:28PM by supertraq.