The Strange Pursuit of Micro Jewelry

Long time lurker, first time poster.

The lure of micro jewelry is hard to explain. Even knowing up front how much foil that involves, it is still more than a body would think. But for some, like me, enjoyable. It takes a lot of focus and a lot of digging but if pursued hard enough long enough it does produce. 2-3 hours is about max to maintain that focus for me, and the exertion of that much digging about wears a body out, but good exercise.

It all began with a Compadre, the humble little unit that can follow a CTX and find things. Not flashy, no features, just beep and dig. Hundreds of posts in almost every detecting forum in the world say it is just that easy with a compadre, and they are right. One Compadre and hooked. So wanted a Compadre on steroids. A sickness.

There is another level for those who would go further, as virtually every member of this forum knows. The dark side. The realm of the gold nugget hunters and the detectors they use. Here, Tom Dankowski shows just how that is done and it works just exactly as he says. Persistence and patience is required, more than one might think, and a lot of digging too. A lot of digging. And more digging. Tired of digging? Dig some more bitch. Persistence to do the digging and patience to wait. To wait for the finds which will surely come if one has the persistence to keep at it. For finding small gold, prospectors got it figured out and it is good to take lessons from them when the jewelry starts to get small. So, it becomes Urban Prospecting, but still the same basic principle.

Much research to find what would be the best gold detector for micro led to purchase of a Makro Gold Racer and a Garrett AT Gold. The Gold Racer works well but lasted a week before going down and needing to be sent in. The AT Gold hanging in nice and strong, but not as sensitive as the Makro. Still, the ATG does find pretty small and is enough to get the daily fix. The ATG has a really nice all metal mode when you get the hang of it.

When the Makro started to be unstable an email was sent to Makro asking about it, when it became obvious something was seriously wrong and it would need to be checked another was sent. The first was answered about a week later, the second not at all. Makro wanted video and a serial number but did not reply when answered. Video? Really? Phone call to dealer was answered with the phone number to the distributor, who said to mail it in at my expense. Now waiting for it's return.

Funny about how manufacturers respond sometimes. When wanting to know how well the ATG would find fine gold chains, Garrett answered in about a week saying it would indeed. The jury is still out on that one, but it is a good general jewelry detector for sure. When the Makro went down, an email was sent to Fisher, addressed in the title to Dave Johnson, asking if the Gold Bug II might be a better choice if the GR proves unreliable. Dave answered personally in less than 24 hours, and no false promises either. Going for a Gold Bug II if the Makro does not work out, and maybe anyways just because Dave is a nice guy. Might be interesting to see what a GBII finds following a Gold Racer, and old school appeals to me. An email to Whites inquiring about the GMT was considered, but not sent. Those look heavy and old and not so sure about them after the MXT Sport.

So what has been learned? Micro hunting is fun if you have borderline personality disorder. Win, win here. High frequency gold detectors work better without question, but mid frequency are easier to use and work pretty good in a pinch. A cheap plastic coil cover for an ATG costs $12, they do not just give you one with an $800 purchase. A display with target id is a really nice thing, not a perfect thing, but really nice. Find out how responsive a manufacturer is up front, and know who will be helping you after the sale and just how responsive they might be. In active sites, a week will replenish it enough to be worth another pass. No matter what anyone says about working up to a gold detector via some lower frequency model, the only way to really learn to use one is to get one and do it. A gold detector is almost like learning from scratch, a different animal entirely, so bite the bullet and get used to the noise if you really are deranged enough to want to hunt micro. Random thoughts for what they are worth.

From a time/value perspective, wouldn't hunting (for want of a better term) macro jewelry (i.e., rings and things) be more cost effective? I think one 14K gold ring would be easier to find and worth a lot more than a bunch of small gold chains.

Welcome to the forum Slag...Glad you have a woman digging for you, lol.

Excellent post. I enjoyed the read.

An interesting post, thank you.
Good thing this isn't a U.K forum, your username might upset the moderators. As well as waste from the steel industry, etc, it can also mean a woman with loose morals "She looks a right dirty slag"
An example from a British publication, Viz:
[viz.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2016 07:44PM by Pimento.

Mike,

You would be quite right about the time vs return angle to almost any sane person in normal circumstance. This is a strategy for hunted hard areas close to home. These tiny targets are tougher and so are more likely to still be there. The value of these targets is mostly in the stones, not the gold. Not a flashy way to hunt, more time between good finds, and can be frustrating. The things are there though, and one is unlikely to stumble past any larger gold while at it so it becomes simply a slower and more laborious way to do the same thing. Sort of. Remember, we said sane.

Mostly it is a challenge and a change. Metal detecting is not often a high paying sport anyway, might as well have a little fun.

No woman digging for me at the moment, but have hope that a woman of loose morals will soon come along.

To quote you "Dig some more bitch"....was what I was jokingly referring to. Oh well maybe not in good taste anyway. But keep one eye peeled for the loose women, lol

Your point is taken Ozzie and good fun. Dig some more bitch is just how it can feel on occasion, and the sure sign it is time for a break from it. That is the sign that focus is lost. The reason it will never be a popular way to hunt is quickly summed up by Mike, especially when taken in the context of how much digging it amounts to. Hunting this way does not cover large amounts of ground in a given time, but is very thorough, Thorough but not selective. Even with a display, target id, and very good detectors, only limited discrimination is possible. Even ferrous trash cannot be entirely eliminated, so trash targets start to be measured in volume because they are so many and small it would be tedious to count them. A person could get a little bitchy if there were no good targets in a pint of gum wrappers.

One cannot cherry pick this way. This is what finds what the cherry picking leaves. The very best targets look exactly like foil at best. Sometimes foil even gives a better signal. When all there is to get is the gold in a diamond setting there is not enough metal to give a good signal given the shape of it. Think what is happening here. On some big stone rings, the setting can dislodge though the ring itself is not lost. Laying in all that sand with all that foil is a lovely diamond within a few little prongs of low conductive metal. Those little prongs and the little signal they can give look pretty small compared to a gum wrapper.

One can see that it is not exactly gold hunting, but more like precious stone hunting. Gold detection is the means to it, so that is why the lessons of the prospectors becomes important. It is exactly like what gold specimen hunters are after, threads of gold in undetectable stone. Little pieces of fine wire. Which of course is why how sensitive to fine gold chains your detector is matters. Those little wire links one at a time is what a detector reads in the absence of a pendant or heavy clasp. With the caveat that you only get one or two links. A chain is easier, you have more chance to get a signal from a link. Any detector that will not pick up fine chain without a clasp will not do this, has no hope of doing this. That narrows the field of appropriate detectors down pretty fast.

The knowledge of the best nugget hunters is where the knowledge required comes from. Tiny little specks in vast seas of trashy ground, and these people do it day after day.

Slag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your point is taken Ozzie and good fun. Dig some
> more bitch is just how it can feel on occasion,
> and the sure sign it is time for a break from it.
> That is the sign that focus is lost. The reason it
> will never be a popular way to hunt is quickly
> summed up by Mike, especially when taken in the
> context of how much digging it amounts to. Hunting
> this way does not cover large amounts of ground in
> a given time, but is very thorough, Thorough but
> not selective. Even with a display, target id, and
> very good detectors, only limited discrimination
> is possible. Even ferrous trash cannot be entirely
> eliminated, so trash targets start to be measured
> in volume because they are so many and small it
> would be tedious to count them. A person could get
> a little bitchy if there were no good targets in a
> pint of gum wrappers.
>
> One cannot cherry pick this way. This is what
> finds what the cherry picking leaves. The very
> best targets look exactly like foil at best.
> Sometimes foil even gives a better signal. When
> all there is to get is the gold in a diamond
> setting there is not enough metal to give a good
> signal given the shape of it. Think what is
> happening here. On some big stone rings, the
> setting can dislodge though the ring itself is not
> lost. Laying in all that sand with all that foil
> is a lovely diamond within a few little prongs of
> low conductive metal. Those little prongs and the
> little signal they can give look pretty small
> compared to a gum wrapper.
>
> One can see that it is not exactly gold hunting,
> but more like precious stone hunting. Gold
> detection is the means to it, so that is why the
> lessons of the prospectors becomes important. It
> is exactly like what gold specimen hunters are
> after, threads of gold in undetectable stone.
> Little pieces of fine wire. Which of course is why
> how sensitive to fine gold chains your detector is
> matters. Those little wire links one at a time is
> what a detector reads in the absence of a pendant
> or heavy clasp. With the caveat that you only get
> one or two links. A chain is easier, you have more
> chance to get a signal from a link. Any detector
> that will not pick up fine chain without a clasp
> will not do this, has no hope of doing this. That
> narrows the field of appropriate detectors down
> pretty fast.
>
> The knowledge of the best nugget hunters is where
> the knowledge required comes from. Tiny little
> specks in vast seas of trashy ground, and these
> people do it day after day.

Slag, I have to say that you have laid this issue out better than any I have read in 44 years of this hobby. Very well said. May I ask where you live?

Have you looked at the DeepTech Vista Gold for this kind of hunting? I would think with its 25kHz frequency that it might be a good unit for this kind of work...

you're definitely hooked....was it initally finding a few small Au items that did it for you?

curious about this statement "In active sites, a week will replenish it enough to be worth another pass."

a heavily used beach site would seem to be the only possible 'active site' with small gold potential...

asking the MD makers if their detector is good for small gold? what else would they say?
and let 100 monkeys loose on a beach with it would turn up a few small gold finds if everything was dug
so they would be correct in that the 'possibility' is always there....

it took a few years before I started going after 'low conductors' above foil and only then due to necessity as
I exhausted my accesible sites for older coins/relics....so bought a G2 started a new course of trying for gold above foil level (small women's rings).....I've been hooked after finding a few....Au is definitely a powerful draw.

great article and good luck....maybe you can post up some stats regarding your micro gold finds over time...

cheers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2016 02:23PM by canslawhero.

The Deep Tech machine was not considered, but is likely to work as well or better than any of the 18-19 kHz machines currently used for gold. Using the Garrett AT Gold at the moment while the Makro Gold Racer is down shows some value to the lower kHz approach, but the higher frequency and higher gain is much preferred. When the Makro comes back the ATG will likely be traded for a Gold Bug II to have decent backup if it proves unreliable again, and to see if the Gold Racer is leaving anything. Too many good hunters like the Makro Gold racer to reject it for one problem, and that screen is really nice, but having to return a brand new detector at my own expense and being without that kind of sensitivity for who knows how long is an irritation that will not be tolerated twice. The Gold Bug II is known to be tough and durable and sensitive, not so sure about the Makro at the moment. That is a problem, one needs to be able to trust the machine. One thing is sure, at least for this and for me. For the very small gold, especially when you do not need to go very deep, higher gain and higher frequency is desired. It is a personal thing, your mileage may vary.

Heavily used beaches are good for sure. Tot lots are surprisingly good sometimes too, and volleyball courts, and almost anywhere there are people in motion. Two things seem necessary as a start. People either need to be taking off the jewelry for some reason (like a beach), or they need to be doing an activity that takes it off. The stuff does not just fall off on it's own with nearly enough frequency to give a good percentage.

For this, low conductors in the foil range is more the thing. The really good stuff is often right smack dab in that range. The very small gold and the foil cannot be separated with any precision. For the junk jewelry and gold plated where the plate flakes off exposing a higher conductor, mid frequency will pick them small easy. But plated and junk do not have the good stones. Mid frequency detectors, whether designed for nugget hunting or not, do not seem to be as effective even though they will find small enough to wear your knees out digging trash because they are plenty sensitive to the size foil found most places. Since you are already going to be on your knees praying for gold, you might as well use something that will be more sensitive to what is desired. The percentage of the most valuable targets will be higher. Tom D has been quite adamant, and repeatedly so, that only a GBII or equivalent will do. There is good reason for this, and he is exactly right.

The 100 monkeys thing is apt. There are many that say they find this or that little thing with their detector of choice and they are right. It is only about percentages. The higher frequency will find micro gold a greater percentage of the time than mid frequency. It is not at all that mid frequency never will, just less often. But they will find foil, so if you have to dig a lot it might as well be a higher percentage game. But, and it is a big but, the high frequency detectors become much less desirable when hunting higher conductors, larger targets, deeper targets, and sites not easy to dig in. They are specialty detectors and the mid frequency will beat the pants off them outside their element. You have to really really want to do this one thing to be worth the investment.

It was the challenge of the thing that was the hook, it cannot be known up front if the approach will be agreeable without at least trying a high frequency detector or if one will be able to find the desired targets even if it is. The forums are full of those who have tried it once and never again. All that foil is not something most care to play with, so it is unlikely to ever be a popular approach. Because of that, if you are insane enough to like it, you have a new virgin beach all to yourself when the cherry pickers have gone. Many do not like all metal modes or low discrimination or all the noise that must be endured. It is all about what a person as an individual enjoys. Metal detecting should be fun and life is short.

Slag,

If you decide you want a GB2, I have a perfect condition Los Banos one with all three coils that I want to sell. The coils are in excellent condition except for the 10" which has hard a hard life.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Thank you Rick. How much are you asking? A good a place as any to show it off.

Slag, I guess I fall into the category of tried it and sold my RG. Mine was a problem with the Park Rangers and then city police. Got to the point that I was told "If I come back into the parks to Metal Detect they would arrest me". They wouldn't elaborate as to the charge but the minute I saw them coming they were recorded as were the Rangers. I was sifting and not digging in the VB courts just like the kids they allowed to do. There is also a racial aspect of this story but won't go into it due to possible lawsuit being put together. I get to visit beaches several times a year but not enough at this time to justify keeping the RG so I went to the R2 and it has produced very well even seeing same chains with no links or charms attached. I will get another in the near future as we are retiring and moving to the coast this year.

I'm wondering if you had an internal problem with your RG or suspect it may have been a coil concern that they needed the unit to repair?

At this point I'm embarrass to say I live in Mecklenburg County with the city of Charlotte, NC. We had the Transgender issue resolved when Governor Pat McCrory was mayor then we got a new VERY liberal mayor. Her rule has spread trough out the city government especially the Parks and Rec.and it is showing in the Human Resources practices. At the rate she is going we will become Detroit in a very short span of time. This has been my home town for 62 years but getting out while I can. Sorry end of rant.

Some places are just not metal detector friendly even in the sand where there is no possible harm. A shame you were chased out of your RG Shovelnose.

The detector issue is undetermined. It arrived at the distributor only last Friday. Asked to have the coil replaced with the new smaller 4X7 if it was a coil issue, but told no by the distributor Detector Electronics Corp. Same price as stock, but they said they replace stock with stock only and accessory coils must be purchased separately. They were happy to sell one though, and Makro coils are really quite reasonably priced so might purchase one if all goes well with the repair. Detector Electronics Corp is who you will have to deal with in the US no matter what dealer you buy from if you have an issue with a Makro. There is no dealer support, was told by the dealer that they are just the middle man. When the dealer was called, he gave the number to the distributor as the only support available for this machine. Have no idea what the turnaround time will be yet, or what will turn out to be the issue, but they answered the phone and got a return authorization number out quickly.

I was planning to post my GB2 wiTh all 3 coils on Craigs locally for $550, so $575 shipped seems reasonable. Anyone interested let me know - I can PM you my email and phone #.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Slag, GB II is a well built detector. The 3x6 coil not so much. If you use them a lot you will tire of replacing them. JMHO
I have had good luck with Detector Electronics customer service.

Thank you Goldbrick. Good to know on that coil. What do you think would make a better choice for hunting small?

Slag, I don't hunt micro jewelry, I hunt nuggets. I switched to a Gold Racer from a GBII. Like you I had a problem with it almost immediately and had to send it off for repair which was disappointing. The little I did use it before sending it away I thought it was a brilliant design. I think once I get past these teething problems it is going to be one of my favorites.

A shame. Such good potential not realized. Really liked the Gold Racer too. If it does not work out will you return to the GBII or go to something else?

Slag, if the Gold Racer does not work out I will await V4 and the small elliptical coil for the Deus which is said to have 40khz as one of its four operating frequencies.

The smallest fine chain I ever found was with a White's GM 4B. It was totally invisible to other machines back then. Pure luck actually as I was working a beach that allowed bonfires. The melted aluminum and wood charcoal was a B*tch, then this faint smooth signal... 6-7" down.

Tom

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2016 09:37AM by Jackpine.

Goldbrick, a most interesting strategy. The V4 was stuff of rumors for a while, has something come to light on it? Not up on the latest with that, but a 40kHz Deus might be seriously good, and for so many things. Have not been keeping up with Deus either, what with the single-minded pursuit of micro.Hopefully all will turn out with the Gold Racers though too, a good sensitive detector with decent target information on the display. Really liked it for the time it worked. Why would you not have a GBII again? As a nugget hunter, your experience is of unique value. Hunting micro is much more like hunting small nuggets than jewelry detecting.

JackPine, that was a remarkable find in a site like that. Hunting fire sites can be very tough indeed for what it does to the ground. There are those still out there using those older machines, and ones much older too. Some say that the older actually work better that the new and prefer them. The smooth signal in that sort of environment is an interesting thing too. Running hot at the ragged edge of sensitivity and listening for smooth signals works pretty well with the more modern machines. but when they get in ground like that the sensitivity must be turned down to manage at all and much of the advantage of that kind of sensitivity is lost.

Between the two of you, a concept emerges. It almost seems that machines with this capability must be hard to design well. If it were as simple as lower frequency design one would expect a screen with target id of some kind would have been put on a GBII long ago, a better one perhaps on the GMT in a lighter package too. There must be a reason high frequency VLF has been so slow to advance compared to everything else. They work as is of course, each with their own adherents that say nothing more is ever needed. But Makro did it. The reliability of it is an unknown right now, but they did it with the Gold Racer, and they are really nice to use when they are working.

Hunting micro quickly became the only thing for me. It just fit with my bent personality. Every angle on detector and technique for this one tiny specific thing has become the entire focus. For that reason the Garrett ATG will go in favor of yet higher frequency and waterproof capability along with a few other nice features vanishes. To go specific as in micro hunting, compromise cannot be made as easily as in general hunting, and good features get sacrificed. The essential thing though, the sensitivity to the desired target, is what matters most, and it must be done or lose precisely what is hoped to gain. If it means hunting by ear with no screen at all, that is what will be done. Being insane is not as easy as it looks.

"There is no dealer support, was told by the dealer that they are just the middle man. When the dealer was called, he gave the number to the distributor as the only support available for this machine."

What a pathetic statement from a dealer. As a metal detector dealer for over 35 years this sort of stuff makes my blood boil. Dealers are not middle men - they are the people taking your money. If they are happy to take your money they better be happy to help you out. If I was still a dealer and you had got the detector from me, just get it back to me and I would take care of it for you. That might only mean I send it back to the distributor myself but in many cases I would simply replace the unit and deal with it.

Refuse to support dealers that refuse to support you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2016 06:14PM by Steve Herschbach.

Steve, thank you for chiming in. Your knowledge and generous sharing of it are profoundly and sincerely appreciated by one who has put it to good use.

Thank you and best wishes to you in your pursuit of micro jewelry. The Gold Racer may be the best unit currently made for the purpose but only if you can have confidence it its reliability and have time to learn it. Hard to do if it spends more time in the shop than in your hands. Good news is mine may be the oldest one in the country being used and was working hard just yesterday. Since it was early off the production line it is a bit surprising to me that later run units would be having problems like you and Goldbrick are having. It is true however that making high frequency detectors requires tighter tolerances in components than lower frequency machines.

Steve, you would know if anyone. Is there any advantage at all to the GBII over the GR? Micro went past pursuit to obsession in a hurry. Just clicked. The Gold Racer quite obviously works well for this and is pretty easy to use. Good feature set, decent ergs, excellent sensitivity to desired target. It can be seen from this experience that backup is required if the main unit goes down, Making do without high frequency is no longer desirable, so a second will be gotten and the GBII looks good for it. The frequency is significantly higher, whether that would translate into a cleaner hit on tiny gold is an open question that you might know how to answer.

For me, it cannot always be known by specs and reports how a detector will feel, and how it feels is everything. Specs and reports will show whether a thing will do what is wanted, and from there is it just tried to see for lack of a better way. Tried a lot of them over the years, some kept for over a decade and some back out the door quickly. The GR is a keeper if it can be made to work reliably. Now it is a question of reliable backup in case it takes a while to get that done.

Advantages of Gold Bug 2 over Gold Racer? For sensitivity to tiny stuff they are so close to be of no consequence to most people but if an edge exists it would be with the Gold Bug 2 and 6" coil. I ditched my Gold Bug 2 as soon as I got the Gold Racer though so never did a head to head - just my gut feeling. For micro jewelry 6" coils are not very efficient as regards ground coverage and depth so the 10" elliptical so make more sense. It would surprise most people to learn the Gold Bug 2 only employs concentric coils. The Gold Racer comes with a 10" DD coil and has a 10" concentric option. This may give the Gold Racer a leg up so all in all it is a very close thing. The Gold Bug 2 can be hip or chest mounted and if this were desirable there is that to consider. The Gold Bug 2 is an easier machine to master by way of simply having fewer controls and options. It is also relatively bulletproof and unlike Goldbricks experience I have never had an issue with the GB 6" coil and I have really beat some up hard. All I can say at end of day for me personally I never thought I would ever see the day when I did not have a Gold Bug 2 having had them since the time they came out. I owned the first one in Alaska. Yet here I am without one and not regretting it. For micro jewelry the inability to get anything more than ferrous/non-ferrous disc on a Gold Bug 2 would be a deal killer for me. While it is nice to say that one should just dig all non-ferrous the reality for me is I want to have the ability to do that if I want, plus dial in any degree of discrimination I may prefer to have depending on my mood and desired target.

Thank you so much Steve, You should get an award for the money you save people with the generous sharing of your wealth of knowledge.

Not a micro hunter, but enjoyed the thread immensely. Well written. Entertaining and informative.

Just a thought: If you like the GR best and want a backup unit, why not another GR? Seek out a dealer who will stand behind the unit and buy another GR. The second GR may not have the issue the 1st one has, but in any case, you would have one to use while the other is off to the repair center.

Wayne

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?